Why don't we lock up straw purchasers and 4473 fraudsters?

[Kang Colby]

I see some chatter about the need for more "gun control" laws and the need to "do something". Why doesn't anyone make a push to prosecute straw purchasers and people who lie on their 4473? My understanding is that these crimes are rarely prosecuted. Twenty year mandatory minimums for felons in possession would also be something I could support.

[Duckhunter935]

1. We should

[spin]

2. We should also lock up anyone caught carrying an illegal firearm in public or ...

caught in possession of an illegal firearm. Plus they should be locked up for a long time especially if they have a long history of breaking the law.

Exclusive: As violence rises, prosecutors bargain away gun charges
Mark Alesia and Tim Evans 6 a.m. EDT October 7, 2014

Leandrew "L-Rock" Beasley, a drug dealer with a history of gun violence, took part in a wild and deadly shootout on the Northeastside not long after getting out of prison in 2012.

In the melee, Beasley clutched a gun in each fist, blasting away. More than 40 shots were fired as neighbors huddled in their homes and bystanders were only yards away.

James Allen III was struck by six bullets, including a fatal shot to the head. Yet another name was added to the long list of Indianapolis murder victims — a toll that accelerated this year causing the community and public officials to join in discussions and seek answers to a deadly surge in gun violence.

***snip***

Twice, Beasley had been charged with possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon, an offense specifically designed to reduce the murder rate. The crime carried a 20-year prison sentence. Yet — twice — prosecutors dropped the gun charge, allowing Beasley to plead guilty to a lesser offense and escape a long prison term.
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/05/exclusive-violence-rises-prosecutors-bargain-away-gun-charges-indianapolis-marion-county/16760997/

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. How is this not dereliction of duty.professional negligience on the part of the prosecutor?

Yeah, yeah, I know: They're immune from bad professional decisions since they work for the government.

People tell me, "You're too young and naive to understand the consequences of being an anarchist. If we had anarchy criminals would be allowed to do what they want with impunity."

Yeah, like this is different/better.

[spin]

13. If I was a cop and I arrested some guy with a long criminal record for illegally carrying ...

a gun in public and the charge was plea bargained away — I would question why I was in the law enforcement profession to begin with. I would probably start looking for a different career.

[gejohnston]

3. for felon in possession

it is a mandatory min of five years. I have been wondering the same thing about straw purchasers. The few that do usually get probation even if they are using fake ID and selling on the black market.

[Kang Colby]

4. Maybe on the federal level

But prohibited person in possession is usually the first charge to be pled down or dropped here in Maryland. I see it happen all the time in Baltimore.

[virginia mountainman]

5. Agreed....

BUT.. Just so you know "enforce existing laws®" is nothing more than NRA propaganda. What is really needed is NEW laws, that will not be enforced either.

[sarisataka]

7. This^^

and based on recent threads, that is exactly the plan.

[Kang Colby]

8. Amen.

The gun control groups have one goal in mind and it isn't public safety. It's gun laws, burdensome restrictions, and sweeping bans. Sure, they don't want to ban guns...just "assault weapons", standard capacity magazines, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, barrel shrouds, pistol grips, folding stocks, collapsible stocks, surplus ammo, and hundreds of "named guns". Other than that, you can own whatever you want as long as you wait the 6-9 months for your purchase permit and register your firearm directly with the CLEO or state police by providing fingerprints. After registration, they will use your purchase permit photo on the state police website for "registered gun owners" with a friendly zip code based search. This will let your neighbors know that you are authorized to visit the range/armory to fondle the muskets that are locked up there and never allowed to leave.

That's all they want. Fortunately, back in the real world we won't even allow them to get a vote in committee.

[beardown]

6. We'd have to let all the marijuana smokers out of prison.

Folks, do you want the streets flooded with empty bags of Doritos and your ears constantly bombarded with the phrase "dude" at the expense of putting gun criminals in jail? And I thought that this was a serious discussion group.

Want to reduce violent crime? Put violent criminals or those seeking guns to enable them to do violent crimes behind bars. Free the pot heads and prostitution Johns and other types filling up the jails and court systems which only encourages DA's to cut deals with criminals intent and capable of doing real serious violent crime.

The best gun fight scenario to get in is one where the criminal doesn't have one.

[ileus]

9. As it's written now if you don't catch them before leaving the store

there's not much chance to catch them.



I can walk out of the store and sell it 5 minutes later.

[flamin lib]

11. Straw purchases are almost impossible to prosecute. Excuses like 'I lost that gun' or 'it was

stolen' are difficult or impossible to refute. Even if the gun winds up in a relative's hands proving that it was willingly provided and not 'borrowed without knowledge' can't be proven. Basically if the straw buyer just keeps his mouth shut he's off the hook.

As for failing a background check and the 4473, all that stuff has to be destroyed in 24 hours so there isn't enough time to prosecute. The best that can be hoped for is to refer the case to local enforcement and most local enforcement doesn't want to involve themselves in federal matters.

It would be nice if these infractions could be pursued but most gun regulations have a loophole big enough to hold an NRA convention in.

[Kang Colby]

12. There are ways.

Hope all is well, flamin. NICS Audit Log records relating to denied transactions are retained for 10 years, after which time they are transferred to a Federal Records Center for storage(1). 4473s are retained by the FFL for at least twenty years, of course if the FFL goes out of business or loses his or her liscense those 4473s are sent to the ATF. It's even easier if a 4473 listed with a denial in section 21 is reviewed during compliance inspection by the ATF. All they have to do is reconcile the denials with the NICS log...like shooting fish in a barrel.

If someone has a felony, especially a recent felony or disqualifier they couldn't have forgotten about, then a denied NICS check and a fraudulent 4473 should result in prosecution.

With respect to straw purchasers, a short time to crime, a known convict and a 4473 should make a good case. The ATF takes these cases on. They should just do more of it in collaboration with state and local law enforcement.

Just my .02.

(1) https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9

[Lee-Lee]

15. You are incorrect when it comes to NICS denials

The denials are not destroyed in the NICS records. Only background checks that result in an approval to buy have the records scrubber in 24 hours. Records of denials are kept indefinitely.

Furthermore, the dealer must record the denial on the 4473 and keep it on file like any other for 20 years.

It's the lies on the 4473 that are the crime. If they had not lied on the 4473 the dealer wouldn't have called NICS so no denial.

100% of the proof needed to prosecute every denied NICS result for falsifying the 4473 is on file at the dealer where they tried to buy the gun- the 4473 with their signature certifying under penalty of perjury everything they said was true- when it obviously was not unless the NICS denial was in error.

The only thing preventing prosecutions is the BATFE and FBI not caring, and the bigger problem of the U.S. Attorneys offices not caring about what they call "minor stuff".

And no, they can't refer it to local LE- federal law must be handled by federal LE.

[Duckhunter935]

16. Thanks

I will say it as I doubt you will get any response.

[Eleanors38]

14. Why don't we? What can I add to the other comments? nt