Help! crawl space question

[seaglass]

We bought a house almost 5 years ago for our retirement which we are planning to move into within the next month.

The original owner added two additions, one on each end of the house, with no access to the crawl space.

I have been dealing with the fact that this allows mice in our attic and cellar (I'm not sure what to call this as the cellar does not go under the whole house). I am really squeamish about critters so please don't say anything about mice being on our main living floor.

So, this week I guess some animal got into the crawl space and died. But I really can't live like this so I either want to sell the house or find out what is needed to make the crawl space accessible or fill it in with cement or whatever will prevent animals from getting into this space and therefore the house.

Does anyone know what this would entail?

Thanks!

[Zoonart]

1. I live in the woods and critters are a given.

My home, builtin the 70's has a dirt floor crawl space the was a rodent highway every fall and water. I finally broke down and purchased
a crawl space encapsulation system. It consists of a rubber sort of bladder that "encapsulates" the area which seals the entire space... (think of a ships' bladder) In my case it includes a dehumidifier that keeps the. humidity down. Not cheap. Cost was about $9K, but I live in NYS and prices may blower where you live.

Anyway... work was done a year ago... no varmints... less humidity in the house and less mustiness and mildew.

[seaglass]

4. Thanks!

I just called a company that does encapsulation but they said I first need to call another company to make access to the crawl space since there is none. I hope this is doable. I think the previous owner was just a hacker and did work the easiest/cheapest way. We found this out when we re-did the kitchen floor and the guy had used some kind of wall material on the floor which all had to be pulled up

[Lars39]

5. Make sure they understand that you want an insulated door to the crawl space.

That way they will do it properly, otherwise you've just got a rag-tag opening thru the concrete blocks(?). And I think I'd have both crawl-spaces accessed while I was at it. My in-laws lived with such a ragged opening for years and were always getting mice in there.

[seaglass]

6. So far it seems that this isn't going to work out. One company that does the encapsulation called

back and said they can't do it. I called another company and they can't do it either. I really don't want to raise the house for a new foundation.

Probably make some more calls today and see if it gets me anywhere.

[Lars39]

7. A structural engineer might be needed.

I hate it when there's no easy fix.

On edit: do you have access to the crawl space under the main part of the house, and is it poured concrete or concrete blocks for the walls?

[seaglass]

8. Sort of. There is a "cape cod" basement that is accessible via a bulkhead. It does have cinder

block walls and a cement floor. It is only a small room that does not cover the main house (even before the 2 additions).

[Lars39]

9. Are the crawlspaces of the additions the same level as the main section?

I could see where it couldn't be done if the crawlspaces of the additions started in at ceiling level of the main crawlspace.
I have no degree in structural engineering, so take all my suggestions with a huge grain of salt.

[seaglass]

10. TBH I don't even know if there is crawl space or just dirt. I just had a conversation with someone

at a construction firm who basically said she had the same problem and she had to hire a house lifter and dig the crawl space out.

I have a contractor who is doing our bathroom reno and am going to get his thoughts.

Thanks for your suggestions!

[Lars39]

11. Gets complicated quick doesn't it.

I’d love to hear what he thinks about it.

[seaglass]

12. Yes. I'm hoping there will be some good news. I haven't had him do any work for us yet so we'll

see how good he is.

[Lars39]

13. I hope it works out for you.

I’d hate to see you have to buy in this market.

[seaglass]

14. Thanks! So we decided to let my daughter and son-in-law live at our current home and just pay

the mortgage/insur/taxes and bills so they could save more money for a down payment on a new house (they had bought a really cute house in an awful neighborhood). They put theirs on the market and had 9 offers in 4 days, they have only lived in their house for 2 years and the offer they took was for 50K more than they bought it for and 30K over asking!

She is feeling guilty that we could be selling at the top of the market too but we had already committed and will take our chances in 3 years I guess.

[Lars39]

15. We're helping my son do pretty much the same thing,

except his house isn’t selling! It’s just a weird market there. We’re just biding our time and saving money, hoping for the best in a year or two.

[seaglass]

16. It's hard to tell what people want. I think we wouldn't have as easy of a time selling ours just

because so many young people are looking for upgrades that we don't have - the whole granite counters/ss appliances/open floor plan/central a/c. When we bought our house it was a 2bed 1 bath bungalow which is now a 3bed 2 bath bungalow with a finished basement. Seems like buyers are scooping up new and already remodeled homes and are not so interested in doing their own work over time.

Good luck to your son!

[Lars39]

17. Thanks, seaglass

And good luck on your end, too.
I’ve noticed that, too! Move in ready really sells fast.

[Cicada]

3. Gladstone, see also Palmerston

The link to Gladstone the official mouser of the U.K. Treasury department keeps going to the wrong Gladstone (some human). Gladstone the official mouser has been described by a high level U.K. official who prefers to be anonymous as “a stone cold killer.”

[quakerboy]

18. Just gonna throw this in

How long does the fix need to last?

I know someone who had a similar problem. They knew the building had issues, no foundation, etc. But they were buying for retirement, knew what they were doing, and basically planned to ride the building into the ground.

The end result was a lot of spray foam. It filled all the gaps, and the animals ate into it over time, but when they realised there was no hole behind to get to, and spray foam doesn't taste good.. and the owners could just buy a can of gap fill and periodically touch up any holes.. the attempted intrusions fell off. It also stabilized some joists that would probably have had to be replaced due to being in long term contact with wet earth in some areas.

Would I buy that house from them? Absolutely not. Did it work as a comfortable tidy place for them to live until they were ready for a different stage in life? yes.

[seaglass]

19. I'm not sure though I would want my kids to either use the house or get the value from it once we

are gone. I will have to look at our home inspection report to see if this is noted, but even so I wouldn't have understood the implications.

I spoke with our mortgage loan officer yesterday who is a friend so I have an estimate of pre-approval for a new house though there is very little inventory in our location. This is one option.

I was hoping to have my husband or someone install 1/4 in hardware cloth which I think would deter chipmunks and anything larger though not mice. My only concern about this is sealing something in.

I am going to call a concrete foundation service today to see if there is anything they can do other than lifting the house. My termite/mice guy said one of his customers had a friend that used some sort of mini conveyor belt and dug out and sealed from underneath and used concrete board from the bottom of the shingle into the ground. The person doesn't work in our area but I'm hoping to get a recommendation for someone who does (also I may not have explained this fully as I don't know that I understand it).

I don't know anything about foam, is this something that you can get at a hardware/big box building supply?

Thanks for jumping in. My husband has pretty much said this is impossible but he has more tolerance with living in these conditions than I do.

[quakerboy]

20. With enough work virtually anything is possible

The question becomes is it worth the work/cost of work.

You can buy foam at stores.. but that would get expensive quick depending on how large an area needed coverage. The stuff at the big box store is meant to fill a modest hole, and you are talking about several fairly volumes, most likely.

Hardware cloth has its purposes. But the question becomes.. are the edges fastened well enough to do the job? And when the racoons and possums come.. will it hold? For my place and covering the crawlspace vents.. the answer has never yet been yes to either of those questions. Im pretty sure its the racoons who serve as the original breaching crew, then the cats come and widen the holes and then the rats move in.

[csziggy]

21. For foam insulation on a large scale look for icynene installers

They will bring a big truck that pumps the liquid into spray hoses that spray where needed. The liquid foams up as it comes out of the hoses.

Icynene is a good insulation and some versions also seal as they insulate.

I have icynene insulation that was sprayed under the roofing - with our ICF walls (insulating foam forms that are reinforced with rebar and filled with concrete) and icynene in the roof system, the house is very well insulated.

[seaglass]

22. Just an update here. It turns out that my husband left the bulkhead open because

it was humid in the partial cellar and a squirrel (or something that size) went down there and got trapped and died. Though I don't like rodent-like creatures, I do feel sad about his/her life ending in such a horrible way.

So we have moved down here, no smell/no flies so the animal's body must be completely decomposed by now.

We have an appointment with MassSave in January and we think they are going to provide options to seal up holes in the partial cellar and recommend something about the insulation. So we should be mostly all set. Also my husband will never leave the bulkhead open again.

Thanks for all the advice given and hopefully we will move before something like this ever happens again.