well i found an irish cousin. adopted. also, this guy-

[mopinko]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dwyer

tracing my roots and having a blast.
found an adoptee, and i am her first blood relative that acknowledges her. she found her mother, but she wants nothing to do w her.
i am def on her dad's side. and boy howdy are we peas in a pod. now she has over 100 cousins. chatting it up on fb. cant wait to meet. i am planning a trip over there, but have her almost talked into coming here. she is the same age as my 1st born.
close cousin, too. 3rd to 5th the dna says. since i am 3rd gen in america, our common ancestors may have been 1st or 2nd degree.

but the rly exciting thing is that dude. my mother's maiden name is dwyer. i cant find a direct link yet. i can find his descendants but not his ancestors.
but here's the thing- he went to australia. that's where all his direct descendants are.
using 3 dna sites and they all show me more 3rd-5th cousins down under that on the olde sod.
and again, 3rd gen in america, so....


it is crazy empowering to know what you come from. all i knew before i started this was the poor ppl in my tree. my grands came here as famine refugees. in steerage. and i grew up poor.

now i know why every time i join an org, i end up on the board. i always thought it was cuz i was a sucker looking for acceptance.
i found a cousin in my gramps home town. we got chatting and he mentioned that the castle/b&b in the town, that i was planning to stay in, was haunted. i said-cool. my family has a banshee. she told my da when his brother died.
cousin georald told me that my da's family was a powerful one back in the day.

so, both sides. holy shit.

[blm]

1. With a rebel yell ...

for centuries.

[mopinko]

4. no shit.

the chief of wiklow. who knew?

[OnDoutside]

2. Great for you ! I presume with a name like Dwyer, your ancestor probably

originated in the Tipperary/Cork area ?

[mopinko]

3. some there, yes.

my mom's folks came here from mayo, but have cousins now in that area.

[OnDoutside]

5. Mayo's lovely...had a lovely week at the Mulranny hotel out by Achill

Island, last year.

[mopinko]

7. i cant wait to go.

there is some stuff i wont be able to find till i get there.
like, i want to know where my gggramps was before he headed for the hills.
but the census i can find only go back to right before he came here.

i am also trying to learn as many drinking songs as i can. big fun.
but the sad songs, shit.
like, i cant listen to this one any more-

&fbclid=IwAR0Lg0UGfaDBnrRTMifYVcGl9wjJnbUeHRi2wCGtTiXEBeBjjZYtw0pPqqo

too much like me, except that my sons are cowards, and my hopes for grandsons are slim.

[OnDoutside]

9. Any idea when he travelled to America ? 1890s ?

I look after a website for my family clan, and do look ups for people. I'm happy to help if you have questions.

[mopinko]

12. 1842

daniel cahill. born 1818 died 1893
came here from kinnity, county offaly. had 3 kids there, 1 my gramps.

hit a dead end w his wife. eleanor hipwell. english but born in ireland.
born 1842. died 1901.
which leads me to suspect he had another wife.
if they had kids, i bet they died in the "famine".

that would be so great if you could find anything on either of them.

both died here in illinois.

[OnDoutside]

19. I see a tree on Ancestry where there's a Daniel Cahill and an Ellen Louise Hipwell.

It mentions children being born in Kinnitty. If the data on that tree is correct (and I think he was born in Offaly not Cork as they suggest), they certainly led an interesting life ! That may be down to (if the 1861 census record is correct) Daniel being in the military, which may also account for him getting married in later life ? That census record says Eleanor was born in Stockport (near Manchester).

I believe this is Daniel's Military info

Name: Sergeant Daniel Cahill
Enlistment Age: 20
Discharge Age: 41
Birth Date: abt 1817
Birth Place: Stradbally, Queen's
Enlistment Year: 1837
Discharge Year: 1858
Regiment: Eighty Sixth REGT. OF Foot
Regimental Number: 1093

Note : Queen's County is the old name for Offaly.

On that one, it's saying that he was born 19 Jan 1818, in Tracton, Cork, Ireland (only about 15 miles from me). On this tree, they're said to have been living in Toronto in 1891 with 3 sons William, Robert and David.

Birth of Son William Hy Cahill(1857–)

Birth of Daughter Margaret Cahill(1860–)
1860 • Hounslow, Middlesex, England

Birth of Son Joseph James Cahill(1862–1949)
22 JAN 1862 • County Offaly, Ireland

Birth of Daughter Mary Cahill(1863–1933)
Jul 1863 • Ireland

Birth of Daughter Elizabeth Lillian Cahill(1863–1943)
2 Jul 1863 • Kinnitty, County Offlay, Ireland

Birth of Son David Cahill(1870–) abt 1870 • Ireland


Birth of Son Robert Cahill(1874–) abt 1874 • Ireland

Marriage

Name Daniel Cahill
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Marriage Date 22 Aug 1859
Marriage Place Galway, Gal, Ireland
Father Peter Cahill
Spouse Ellen Hipwell
FHL Film Number 101407
Reference ID65
Household Members

Residence
1880 • Delavan, Walworth, Wisconsin, United States

Residence
1891 • St Davids Ward, Toronto City, Ontario, Canada
Marital Status: Married; Relation to Head of House: Head

Death
3 Dec 1893 • Chicago Cook, Illinois

It looks like they arrived into Canada in 1875

Name Danl Cahill
Birth abt 1819
Departure Liverpool, England; Londonderry, Ireland
Arrival Quebec, Quebec, Canada 05/07/1875 (5 Jul 1875)

[mopinko]

20. oh man. ty.

yes, that is him. his son, joseph james is my gramps.
so, always in queens. and a fellow w/o prospects i assume.
gosh darn. 20 yrs in the military. so that's why he didnt marry.

that's not him in canada.

[OnDoutside]

22. Well in that case, this one looks more like it

Name: Mary Cahill
Gender: Female
Arrival Age: 12
Birth Date: abt 1862
Birth Place: Ireland
Last Residence: Ireland
Departure Place: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 21 May 1874
Arrival Place: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
Ship: Pennsylvania

It has Daniel, Ellen, Mary, Joseph and Elizabeth (Lillie)

And the 1880 census for Wisconsin

Name: Daniel Cahill
Age: 61
Birth Date: Abt 1819
Birthplace: Ireland
Home in 1880: Delavan, Walworth, Wisconsin, USA
Dwelling Number: 319
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital status: Married
Spouse's Name: Ellen Cahill
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Occupation: Laborer

Name Age
Daniel Cahill 61
Ellen Cahill 52
Lillie Cahill 16
Joseph Cahill 18

[OnDoutside]

21. Ooops I got my Kings and Queens mixed up !

King's County is Offaly and Queen's County is Laois (next door to Offaly), so Daniel was born in Stradbally County Laois.

BTW, in the 1901 census, this is the list of Hipwells in Offaly and Laois.

Surname Forename Townland/Street DED County Age Sex
Hipwell Thomas Ballincur Kinnetty King's Co. 68 M
Hipwell Catherine Ballincur Kinnetty King's Co. 63 F
Hipwell Thos H Ballincur Kinnetty King's Co. 36 M
Hipwell Robt W Ballincur Kinnetty King's Co. 30 M
Hipwell Mary C Ballincur Kinnetty King's Co. 26 F
Hipwell John H Clogharmore Knockbarron King's Co. 10 M
Hipwell James Cloncreen Clonbulloge King's Co. 33 M
Hipwell Winfred Cloncreen Clonbulloge King's Co. 23 F
Hipwell Julia Cloncreen Clonbulloge King's Co. 1 F
Hipwell John Cloncreen Clonbulloge King's Co. 0 M
Hipwell James F Gillabbey (part of) Bishopstown Cork 24 M
Hipwell Mary Ballytracey The Harrow Wexford 62 F
Hipwell Patrick Clonegal Town Clonegal Carlow 32 M
Hipwell Thomas Kilkea & Moone (Barony) Moone Kildare 47 M
Hipwell Annie Kilkea & Moone (Barony) Moone Kildare 27 F
Hipwell Thomas Kilkea & Moone (Barony) Moone Kildare 5 M
Hipwell John Kilkea & Moone (Barony) Moone Kildare 3 M
Hipwell James Kilkea & Moone (Barony) Moone Kildare 0 M
Hipwell John Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 31 M
Hipwell James Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 73 M
Hipwell Andrew Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 28 M
Hipwell Richard Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 22 M
Hipwell Catherine Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 19 F
Hipwell Ann Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 18 F
Hipwell Bridget Oldtown Clonkeen Queen's Co. 14 F
Hipwell George Boherard Cuffsborough Queen's Co. 25 M
Hipwell Etta Henry Street Dangans, Mountmellick Town Queen's Co. 22 F
Hipwell Samuel Main Street Mountrath Queen's Co. 50 M
Hipwell Jane Elizabeth Main Street Mountrath Queen's Co. 50 F
Hipwell Mary Anne Ballynagall Arless Queen's Co. 13 F
Hipwell Michael Knockbeg Shrule Queen's Co. 23 M
Hipwell Michael Knockbeg Shrule Queen's Co. 23 M
Hipwell Charles Aghduff Arderin Queen's Co. 48 M
Hipwell William Johnsborough Cardtown Queen's Co. 50 M
Hipwell Isabella Johnsborough Cardtown Queen's Co. 50 F
Hipwell Henery Johnsborough Cardtown Queen's Co. 12 M
Hipwell Samuel J Johnsborough Cardtown Queen's Co. 5 M
Hipwell Anne Church Street Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 61 F
Hipwell John Green Lane Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 54 M
Hipwell Anna Green Lane Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 50 F
Hipwell Elsie Green Lane Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 20 F
Hipwell Willie Green Lane Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 16 M
Hipwell Bee Green Lane Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 13 F
Hipwell Ellen Quality Row or Coburg Street Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 60 F
Hipwell Alice Quality Row or Coburg Street Maryborough Urban Queen's Co. 16 F
Hipwell Edward Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 72 M
Hipwell Mary Elizabeth Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 46 F
Hipwell Edward W Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 20 M
Hipwell Margt M Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 21 F
Hipwell Gregory H Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 18 M
Hipwell Andrew A Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 16 M
Hipwell Mary F Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 14 F
Hipwell Patrick J Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 11 M
Hipwell Anne E Rinn Rosenallis Queen's Co. 6 F







This may be unconnected, but there's a John Hipwell who was in Queen's County in 1826 and Manchester in 1831

John Thomas Hipwell, 1863 - 1944
John Thomas Hipwell was born on month day 1863, at birth place, to Robert James Edward Hipwell and Elizabeth Hipwell (born Goodwin).
Robert was born on August 7 1826, in Queens County, Ireland.
Elizabeth was born on March 23 1831, in Manchester, Lancashire, England.
John had 2 brothers: David Call Hipwell and one other sibling.
John married Elizabeth Isabella Hipwell (born Eveleigh) in 1884, at age 20 at marriage place.
Elizabeth was born on August 1 1858, in Paterson, NSW, Australia.
John passed away on month day 1944, at age 81 at death place.

[OnDoutside]

23. Another thing on Daniel's military career

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86th_(Royal_County_Down)_Regiment_of_Foot#:~:text=The%2086th%20(Royal%20County%20Down,Royal%20Irish%20Rifles%20in%201881.

The 86th (Royal County Down) Regiment of Foot was an infantry regiment of the British Army, raised in 1793. Under the Childers Reforms it amalgamated with the 83rd (County of Dublin) Regiment of Foot to form the Royal Irish Rifles in 1881.

https://archive.org/details/historicalrecord00canniala/page/18/mode/2up

It fits that he was discharged in 1858 and got married in 1859 ?

[mopinko]

24. mind blown. the biggest part?

i found this little ditty, and boy do i love it.

to think that my ggramps might have marched to it, sung it, whistled it?
dang. and here i thought this was one that would never make me cry.

so, can you find the ancestors of michael dwyer?
i think my ancestor and his relations must be close. those aussies are coming up 3rd to 5th cousins. assuming they exist, or course.

i hope that isnt asking too much. you have done so much.
if i get over there, i will def buy you a beer. or a shot. or whatever you drink.

[OnDoutside]

25. Delighted to be able to help, I've been researching my own family tree

over the last 20 years.

On the one road has been a very popular song over the last number of decades, so you won't go wrong in learning that. I'll get some others that you might like too.

I'll have a look at Michael Dwyer too.

[mopinko]

26. fwiw, there are a few michael dwyers in my tree.

and i think most of the males have the same names as his sons.

[OnDoutside]

27. Can you give me any dates/locations ?

[mopinko]

28. here's what i have so far

my gramps- james patrick 1879. born in illinois, i think chi
married rose o'regan, 1883-1960 born in ireland. i think mayo.

his brother- michael, 1886
also a brother james

their dad- also a michael- 1841
wife was ann lawler. born in ireland.

i mean, the whole family has saint's names, but...

[OnDoutside]

37. Here's James and Rose marriage

Name: James P. Dwyer
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1882
Marriage Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Sep 1907
Marriage Place: Cook County, Illinois
Spouse Name: Rose O. Regan
Spouse Age: 21
Spouse Gender: Female
FHL Film Number: 1030428
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure that his dad was Michael ? Because there's this 1880 Census record where he is John

Name: James Dwyer
Age: 1
Birth Date: Abt 1879
Birthplace: Illinois
Home in 1880: Chicago, Cook, Illinois, USA
Street: West Fifteenth Street
House Number: 304
Dwelling Number: 176
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital status: Single
Father's Name: John Dwyer
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Name: Ann Dwyer
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Dwyer 31
Ann Dwyer 29
John Dwyer 3
James Dwyer 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1900 Census record

Name: James Dwyer
Age: 21
Birth Date: Mar 1879
Birthplace: Illinois, USA
Home in 1900: Chicago Ward 8, Cook, Illinois
Ward of City: 8
Street: West 13th Street
House Number: 432
Sheet Number: 11
Number of Dwelling in Order of Visitation: 95
Family Number: 210
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Name: Ann Dwyer
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Occupation: Blacksmith
Months Not Employed: 0
Can Read: Yes
Can Write: Yes
Can Speak English: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Dwyer 47
John Dwyer 24
James Dwyer 21
Sarah Dwyer 15
Margeret Dwyer 11
Thomas Dwyer 10
Laura Dwyer 6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: John Dwyer
Birth Year: abt 1849
Age: 49 Yr
Death Date: 14 Dec 1898
Death Place: Chicago, Cook, Illinois

------------------------------------------------------------------------



Name: Ann Dwyer
Age: 47
Birth Date: Jun 1852
Birthplace: Ireland
Home in 1900: Chicago Ward 8, Cook, Illinois
Ward of City: 8
Street: West 13th Street
House Number: 432
Sheet Number: 11
Number of Dwelling in Order of Visitation: 95
Family Number: 210
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1871
Relation to Head of House: Head

[mopinko]

38. was michael dwyer sent to botany bay?

[OnDoutside]

39. If this is the correct Ann Lawler, then her spouse was John

Name Ann Dwyer
Birth Date 1861
Birth Place Carlow, Ireland
Death Date 08/10/1930 (8 Oct 1930)
Death Place Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Burial Date 11/10/1930 (11 Oct 1930)
Burial Place Evanston, Cook, Ill.
Cemetery Name Calvary
Death Age 69
Occupation Housework
Race White
Marital Status W
Gender Female
Residence Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Father Name James Lawler
Father Birth Place Carlow, Ireland
Mother Birth Place Carlow, Ireland
Spouse Name John Dwyer
Comments
lived in Chicago 50y
FHL Film Number 1892691

[mopinko]

40. i may have been confused.

hard to see much on this ipad, and the screen froze up on me.
she is buried right down the street!

[OnDoutside]

45. This looks like Ann's Birth details !

Name: Ann Lawler
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1850
Baptism Date: Jun 1850
Baptism Place: Dunleckney, Carlow, Ireland
Parish Variants: Bagenalstown, Ballonkillen, Dunleckney, Ballonkillen and Newtown, Muinebheag, Newtown
Diocese: Kildare and Leighlin
Father: James Lawler
Mother: Ann Gregan

[mopinko]

43. ok, basically, yes.

he negotiated a deal, and was given 100 acres. but he did land in botany bay.
he wanted to come to america.

he had more kids than the ancestry charts i saw, 7. i think i only saw 4.
came from a family of 7, like me.

he got into trouble there, tried for fomenting insurrection. acquitted, and rose to chief of police in liverpool, new south wales.
but ended up a drunkered. went bankrupt, went to debtors prison, caught dysentery and died.

left a lot of aussie descendants behind.

dang. this is fun.

[mopinko]

41. blacksmith makes sense. gramps was a ferrier.

and a gifted one. he was able to shoe a cousin's shetland pony that bit most ppl.

[mopinko]

55. so, john here is michael dwyer's brother patrick's son.

i went to visit, this being just down the road from me.
apparently a couple other family members were buried here, but moved to a place out in the western burbs. my carmel.

i have walked and driven through this cemetery a thousand times, and i cant believe i never noticed it is all irishmen. 95% i would guess.
the grave is in the early section, close to the lake. there is another marker on the other side, just a long thin one at ground level to m. lawler. that was ggrandma's maiden name. one of her parents, i'm guessing. the stone is older.

so, something occurred to me the other day, but i'm not sure where to look.
i wonder if either of my parents were registered as irish citizens. i never heard that they were, but it seems kinda surprising if neither were. perhaps it was just done in case they ever went back, but forgotten because they didnt.
did many people do that back then?

[mopinko]

35. ok, found this-

https://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Dwyer-565/9

not sure how i missed that, but have to admit my head is spinning.
looking at a big tree from an aussie cousin.

https://www.myheritage.com/pedigree-tree-690481261-1500003/porter?familyTreeID=1&kitId=BC3DCBF7-E914-4526-AACB-0759A1F22EDA#:mffmm

msgd, but think i recognize some names.

[mopinko]

36. bingo

he had a brother, patrick, that stayed in tipperary. 1832.
had a daugher, mary. born in queensland.
in the tree i linked.

dna say 3rd to distant cousin.

damn this is fun.

[mopinko]

42. ok, that's confused.

immigration records needed.

[mopinko]

29. i find it appalling that he ended up a famine refugee.

a vet of a BRITISH unit, a 20 yr vet, and came here in steerage.
and his wife, tho born in ireland, was english.

how the fucking fuck could that even happen?

[OnDoutside]

30. No he joined before the famine, and the British Army was built on the

backs of the Irish, Scots and Welsh. His wife looks to have been born in Stockport, near Manchester, and it's quite possible her father was similarly in the military, sent to Ireland. Don't forget that it was all one country/kingdom. A great great great grandfather of mine joined the Coast guard in Castletownbere, Cork and was sent to England where my great great grandfather was born. The positive thing in working for the Crown is there's a better chance of records existing.

[mopinko]

31. yeah, but he came here in 42 as a famine refugee.

in steerage. as did my mom's mom.

[OnDoutside]

32. Where did you see that Daniel Cahill arrived as a famine refugee in 1842 ?

[mopinko]

33. ellis island records.

[mopinko]

34. might be 44. dont remember atm

my aunt said one thing, but the record said another.

[OnDoutside]

44. Just to be clear, we're talking about Daniel Cahill ?

If so, I think it was 1876, not 1842.

[mopinko]

46. hmm. well it wasnt her only mistake.

[OnDoutside]

49. Well to be fair, Daniel Cahill isn't too uncommon a name, so understandable.

[mopinko]

50. true.

but she had the rest of his dates.

she did her history before they had the ellis island records available.
i looked at them, but didnt notice the dates. mebbe i should recheck that.

[mopinko]

47. yeah the brits.

thieving w a pen.
kept records like the nazis

[OnDoutside]

48. Meticulous for sure. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of census records were destroyed by

accident during the War of Independence, and later when other records were destroyed by fire.

[mopinko]

51. didnt a lot of the irish records get burned too?

maybe that's why they dont have the irish census past 1831?

[OnDoutside]

52. Yes, there were 3 separate incidents

First was during the Irish Civil War where the Treaty forces fired on the Anti Treaty forces in 1921, and a lot of records were destroyed.
Second was when records were destroyed by the Irish Civil Service because they thought the originals were held in London.
Thirdly, a lot of records stored in London were destroyed in a fire in the 30s.

A disaster. There are records being digitised all the time, but the amount of loss is significant.

p.s. do you want the pdf/jpgs of the records I found ? If so, I can pm you a contact email address.

[mopinko]

53. that would be awesome.

i know some of the records my aunt found came from parish records.
my mam didnt have a brith cert. when she went to ireland in '80 something, she had to get her birth cert. the parish, st finnbar's, went under long ago, and she had to write to the diocese to get it. most of that stuff is online now.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

6. Congrats!

Genealogy can be very fun!

It's puzzle-solving, new social connections and lessons in history!

[mopinko]

8. yeah. learning the drinking songs.

and looking up the names in the rebel songs. by the time i get my passport i should be able to pass the test.
i am entitled by blood, but it would be fun to take the test.

i especially love this one-

&fbclid=IwAR3n8rn6iIwy75u_oXp2Az7gLsdJ5tcSbf9BXXKEFkb8ev6iOUbawIQUOjg

[OnDoutside]

11. If you are going to Tipperary, this is the one to know

https://music.

&list=RDAMVMHDb6gLhPHms

[mopinko]

13. that's a great one. thx.

i'm taking voice lessons. i found out that that irish sound comes from having the voice in the roof of the mouth. teach told me to sing imitating julia child. but these irish ballads work so much better.
also found a video about luke kelly of the dubliners. one of the other members said he would never blow his voice out from blasting it, cuz he sent it out his nose. drink, yes. singing, never.

[snowybirdie]

10. It is amazing!

Found a half sister who was given up for adoption and a slew of nieces and nephews! What joy!

[mopinko]

14. no kidding.

i didnt need any more cousins, but she sure did.

[WePurrsevere]

15. Very cool! I'm so glad you accepted and helped her...

as a fellow adoptee who found my bio families a few years ago, and was thankfully accepted by most, I'm sure it means the world to her.

[mopinko]

16. we were joking this morning-

that i should adopt her. she is the same age as my oldest, who i dont speak to.
and she not only has 2 daughters, she has a grandbaby!

[WePurrsevere]

17. That's great! I'm so glad you have so much in common...

with her. I have a paternal cousin who's only a few years younger but is my 'twin' in so many ways it's wild to me.

Finding my bio families certainly has convinced me that not only appearances but genetic memory is a real thing though. I never truly 'fit' with my adoptive parents. Finding my bio families (my parents are unfortunately both deceased), especially my Canadian paternal side, was like finding a pair of comfy slippers that you had packed away and rediscovered while clearing out the attic.

I hope you can all get together soon. This is a whole new and exciting (and and possibly a bit scary) chapter for her and I very much wish you all joy as a family reunited.

[mopinko]

18. i have a nephew.

my oldest sister and i are peas in a pod. she has a son. he was an award winning landscape designer. had a great business. he ditched it to go to art school. went to cranbrook. got an mfa at 50. we reconnected.
he never saw any of my work.
but if you lined up either his paintings or his early clay work next to mine, you would have to have a hell of an eye to sort them out.

[mopinko]

54. michael dwyer's brother patrick is my ggrandfather.

i thought for sure there'd be more greats than that.