Rapists Explain Themselves on Reddit, and We Should Listen

[LadyHawkAZ]

**Trigger warning**

This crossed my Facebook newsfeed a few hours ago. I read both the article and parts of the thread, and now I can't sleep- the Reddit thread has some incredibly freaky, frightening stuff. I do agree with the Jezebel author in that the only rape apologists I saw in the Reddit thread were some of the rapists themselves- this was not a poor-victimized-rapist thread but IS a good learning tool. I'm interested in hearing what you all think of this.

http://jezebel.com/5929544/rapists-explain-themselves-on-reddit-and-we-should-listen

Rapists and would-be rapists are opening up about "the other side of the story" — theirs — on a massive Reddit thread about the motivations behind sexual assault. The conversations range from exasperating to disturbing, and the whole of it may make you want to roll your eyes in disgust. But you shouldn't dismiss the thread as mere rape apologia. There's plenty of that, sure, but there's also a lot more to it.

Yesterday, a Redditor solicited stories of sexual assault from assailants. "Reddit's had a few threads about sexual assault victims, but are there any redditors from the other side of the story?" he asked. "What were your motivations? Do you regret it?"

Given the disturbingly high amount of men's rights activists and rape apologist Redditors — a recent Reddit thread counted the many, many ways the site is "anti-women" — it's easy to see why some would be skeptical about the possibility for productive discussion. "In other words: Yeah, yeah, enough about rape victims, let's hear from the REAL VICTIMS here: the POOR MENZ," Shit Reddit Says lamented. A commenter added, "The thought that my rapist is PROBABLY a redditor and could very well be getting patted on the back RIGHT NOW by HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE for relating how rough raping me was for him is making me literally nauseous."

But it's impossible to talk about the reasons people rape without involving rapists in the discussion. Rapists aren't hiding in the bushes: around two-thirds of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, and 73 percent of sexual assaults are perpetrated by a non-stranger. It's a mistake to think we're justifying rapists' actions by listening to their stories. Some of them are tough to read, but their brutal honesty effectively illustrates how a lack of communication and education perpetuates rape culture. Ignoring or dismissing these men (and women) out of hand may be an effective coping strategy for a given individual, but not for society. It gets us nowhere.

~more at link~

[rfranklin]

1. Dupe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12558513

[REP]

3. It hasn't been posted before in this Group, and dupes and xposts are allowed except in LBN

[yardwork]

4. It's also been posted in GD, which is fine.

This thread on Reddit has taken the internet by storm, for good reason. People want to talk about this. You are welcome to comment here if you like, as long as you stay within the Statement of Purpose pinned to the top of our board. We welcome a variety of viewpoints but expect posts to the group to begin from a point of view acknowledging the need for equal rights for women.

[LadyHawkAZ]

9. I have HoF trashed n/t

[yardwork]

5. There are a lot of different points of view in those posts on Reddit.

It's hard to imagine a more difficult topic to discuss than rape, and the posts on Reddit are all over the place. Some of the posters sound genuinely remorseful. Others sound like they are pretending to be remorseful but aren't, and still others sound like sociopaths who are not remorseful at all. Some of the posts sound fake to me, but it's impossible to tell for sure.

I can understand why victims of rape would find it very difficult or impossible to read the posts. The internet makes it possible for us to read things like this. Is that helpful? Can we as a society use this information to make things better?

[stevenleser]

14. I am going to sit down and read it at some point this upcoming weekend.

It's hard for me to imagine what their explanations would be.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. More like *Rapists who got away with it* explain themselves.

In some cases there seems to be real introspection, others not so much. That said, it was bold of Reddit to host this thread and if reading it helps others cope with their own histories, I'll be thankful.

IMHO the more interesting tales on that thread are from people who talk about relatives and friends who have raped. Knowing rapists who have been convicted and still not taking responsibility for their actions is incredibly frustrating but more so when the perpetrator's a child molester and his family acts as if there's no need to worry about that person being around other children.

The worst rapist/child molester that I've known raped more at least a half dozen women and repeatedly molested at least five girls in his own family. He was never charged because the adult women excused his behavior because he was drunk and the girls were all family members in what we later learned was a multi-generational family of sexual abusers. The head of the family was also a pillar of the community. AFAIK no one in this family has ever been brought up on charges. I know that two of the girls confronted him as a young adults. All that it got them was shunning by the family and badmouthing in the community.

[kdmorris]

7. There were a lot of perspectives presented.

I agree with yardwork. This is perhaps one of the hardest topics to have an open conversation about. There are deep seated feelings surrounding this subject that make it likely impossible to have an honest discussion about.

I've only ever been raped by my ex-husband. But that was just one part of the abuse he perpetrated on me. In the end, when the arrests came about, the prosecutors wanted to press marital rape charges in addition to the 5 counts of assault and battery. I declined because I knew that it would just be dredged up again and that wasn't even the worst thing he had ever done to me.

I do, however, think that saying "would be rapists" is wrong. Sex is a natural human activity... men who ended up in situations where they were far into the sexual activity before they realized that their partner didn't want to continue AND STOPPED... they are just men... not "would be rapists".

[Starry Messenger]

8. I went to the Reddit link itself.

It's tough to read, and being unmoderated and a free for all, it's not really a safe space. I understand the good motives behind it, I'm just not sure that's the place, or the way, to have the conversation. I had to give up after about 20 minutes.

I guess my question is, is understanding intent really necessary to undoing oppression?

[kdmorris]

10. You lasted 20 minutes?

Ugh... I only lasted about 2...

[Starry Messenger]

11. I wanted to see if there was something that supported the assessment of the Jezebel article.

I wasn't convinced by the samples she quoted and thought maybe I was missing some context. I still don't see how she came to her conclusions, that this is somehow healing. I think most women who have experience with sexual violence know that it's not just creeps in dark parking lots, etc.

I just don't get how understanding a rapist's motives stops the problem. It's a crime of domination and control. We've collectively tried to understand murderers' motives for decades too, but does dialogue from murderers really bring healing? I don't know...

[yardwork]

12. There's the huge unknown about whether or not the perpetrators are telling the truth.

You ask if understanding murderers' motives brings healing. Good question. As he neared his execution, Ted Bundy claimed that pornography made him into a serial killer. A lot of people think that he was lying about that. They think it was something he told his psychiatrist to get sympathy and attention. The guards in the prison said that he didn't even look at pornography. So maybe, probably, Ted Bundy was lying about why he killed, just one more game he was playing, one more way to manipulate people. Nothing whatsoever about that is healing.

Reading some of the posts at the Reddit link I got the same feeling. Some of those people are lying. Some of them are exaggerating. How can we tell which is genuine or not? Hard to find anything really valuable in this, imo.

[Starry Messenger]

13. That whole aspect I hadn't even started to think about.

A lot of these could be creepy fantasy scenarios. That would be gruesome, but there's no way to control for that in an anonymous format.

Your point about Bundy rocks. The shit he said was probably even more terrible for victims' families.

I don't see anything valuable in this either.