9/11 Molten Metal at World Trade Center.11th September 2001.

[wildbilln864]

" roaring inside! Just a bright bright redish orange color."
"...at one point I think they were at 2800 degrees! "

maximum temperature for hydrocarbon fires? maybe 1800 degrees!

[hack89]

1. Since Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees, what's the issue here?

considering the WTC towers were clad with aluminum, you would expect plenty of molten metal in the WTC rubble pile.

[wildbilln864]

2. Al melts but doesn't glow bright orange when heated less than 1800 degrees F!

If you have credible evidence that it does please post a link to it! Um, sorry but JREF crackpots not accepted.
And there are no eyewitness accounts of molten Al. But there are for molten steel. Also if it were Al, which it was not, what kept it heated enough to glow bright orange for two months after the collapses? Answer: thermate!

"The fundamental flaw of the aluminum hypothesis, though, is that the implied temperature of the white glow remains above 1200°C/2200°F, regardless of the metal involved. "

[hack89]

3. So molten steel is common at fires?

Because how else would firefighters gain the experience to distinguish molten steel from aluminum? Especially when it is mixed with dust, concrete and all that other crap in the pile.

So what melted the steel?

[wildbilln864]

4. " So molten steel is common at fires?"

at fires caused by thermite, yes!

[hack89]

5. So they slathered entire columns with thermite to melt them

Last edited Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Instead of using just a little to cut them?

So how would the firefighters be able to recognize molten steel if this is the first time it has ever happened?

[wildbilln864]

6. for your education:

[hack89]

7. You prove my point

We know thermite can cut steel. But it didn't melt the entire piece of steel. How much molten steel would you produce to burn narrow cuts into some core columns. And how would all that molten steel magically collect to form pools? And how would it not mix with all the molten aluminum?

Why don't you tell me haw many columns were cut to start with?

[wildbilln864]

8. nonsense!

and you ignore this point:
"The fundamental flaw of the aluminum hypothesis, though, is that the implied temperature of the white glow remains above 1200°C/2200°F, regardless of the metal involved. "

[hack89]

9. So what was heating the steel so long after the collapse?

The thermite was all gone before the towers finished collapsing so what heated the steel in the rubble pile?

[gyroscope]

14. Thermite can burn for months

as long as it has enough fuel to feed it.
in the case of the twin towers, the fuel was hundreds of thousands of tons of steel beams.

sort of like a forest fire, that can burn for weeks and months as long as there are trees. except with thermite, water cannot easily put it out which is why thermite is commonly used for underwater welding. a better comparison would be molten lava from a volcano, which we know can burn for months if not years.

[hack89]

15. Steel beams will not act like fuel for thermate

Thermate is fast reacting.

I think you need to provide some links.

[gyroscope]

16. Huh?

The reaction time has nothing to do with it.

And we're talking about thermite, not thermate.

[zappaman]

17. What about super duper Theramateite???

Just because we haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

[hack89]

18. Why would there be unburnt thermite in the rubble pile?

especially in large amounts? I thought it was used to cut narrow gaps in the steel columns so that they would collapse. If it cut the columns then there would be none left. If there was a lot of thermite left over then the columns were not cut. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Professor Steven Jones of BYU says he found traces of thermate at the WTC, not thermite. Thermate is a super-duper, somewhat hypothetical version of thermite that Truthers came up with when it was clear that the actual evidence would not support thermite. Are you saying Professor Jones is lying?

In case you haven't figured it out by now, we have been talking about it here for 10 years - you have not said anything that hasn't been discussed over and over again. Which is par for the course for 911 Truth - nothing new in a very long time. Your "steel columns as fuel" argument has even been seen here before.

[gyroscope]

19. Thermate is a hypothetical substance?

LOL. Unlike the unproven and rather laughable hypothesis that random office fires can cause the total collapse of modern steel skyscrapers, thermate is a very real thing. But thanks for the laugh!

Thermate composition is a thermite one enriched with a salt-based oxidizer (usually nitrates, e.g. barium nitrate, or peroxides). In contrast with thermites, thermates burn with evolution of flame and gases. The presence of the oxidizer makes the mixture easier to ignite and improves penetration of target by the burning composition, as the evolved gas is projecting the molten slag and providing mechanical agitation.[18] This mechanism makes thermate more suitable than thermite for incendiary purposes and for emergency destruction of sensitive equipment (e.g. cryptographic devices), as thermite's effect is more localized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Thermates

Thermate has military applications and is capable of cutting through tank armor.

Because thermate burns at higher temperatures than ordinary thermite,[1] it has useful military applications in cutting through tank armor or other hardened military vehicles or bunkers. As with thermite, thermate's ability to burn without an external supply of oxygen renders it useful for underwater incendiary devices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate

Thermate, thermite whatever you want to call it is much more plausible way to take down modern steel high-rise than office fires.

[hack89]

20. Your links undercut your argument of large amounts of unburnt thermate in the rubble pile

"short burst" "small area" "short period of time"

You haven't really thought this out very well, have you?

Can you tell me exactly how the thermite/thermate was used? What is your theory?

[gyroscope]

21. "Unburned thermate"

I don't know where you get that idea, but it is incorrect.

What Jones said he found was thermate residue, not unburned thermate. Big difference.
Thermate residue is what you would expect to find after burning thermate.

[hack89]

22. You said there was unburnt thermite in the rubble pile, not Jones

Thermite can burn for months

It can't burn for months unless there was a shit ton of it left over from the initial demolition and collapse.

[gyroscope]

23. Nonsense

I don't think you understand the difference between steel and wood.

Steel isn't the same as wood. A burning wood log will burn itself out within a matter of hours, for example,
but a steel beam that is melted down can remain in a molten state almost indefinitely.
With thermate or thermite being the catalyst turning cold steel into molten steel.
Fire is the catalyst that turns wood into a pile of ashes, but an office fire is not sufficient
to turn a steel beam into a molten state.

Unlike burning wood, molten steel doesn't just turn into a pile of ashes.
In an enclosed space it can remain molten almost indefinitely.

[hack89]

24. But the thermite would not have melted the steel beams

it was used to cut the beams, not melt them. Your own link says that thermate concentrates intense heat in a small area for a short time. That is how it burns a small hole into steel. It does not melt the entire piece of steel.

[gyroscope]

26. Thermite cuts by melting

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)

similar to how welders commonly use thermite to manually cut steel beams in half.
the beam is literally melted in half.

Thermite can be used for quickly cutting or welding steel such as rail tracks,
without requiring complex or heavy equipment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Civilian_uses

after the building collapses, all that thermate and steel then collects at the sub-basement area of the towers, and you have a very large molten pool of melted steel and burning thermate all collapsed together into a confined area at the base of the towers.

[hack89]

27. But it only melts a very small portion of the steel

if it melted a large area, it would be useless for welding. Come, apply some thought here.

How can there be any thermate to collect since it was all expended cutting the steel columns? Thermate burns almost instantaneously - there would be no unburned thermate to collect in the basement. And you would not have a large amount of molten steel - how much molten steel would be generated my cutting very narrow strips out of steel columns? What molten steel there was would be mixed in with all that collapsing debris - it would cool very quickly. And there certainly would not be enough to flow and collect into large pools.

[gyroscope]

28. Doesn't matter if the thermate was expended

like I said the molten steel it produces can remain in a molten state almost indefinitely.

and that molten steel in turn will continue to melt the remaining steel long after the towers have collapsed.

[hack89]

29. There was not enough molten steel to form pools

think. You melt very narrow strips out of steel columns - fractions of inches is all you need. And what molten steel that is produced is scattered over a large enough area that it can't pool. And then it is mixed with tons of concrete dust and debris - you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[gyroscope]

32. Wrong again

demolishing a skyscraper isn't like cutting down a tree where you simply make one cut at the base of the tree and the tree comes down.

you are making multiple cuts all along the vertical length of the building, as evidenced by the top down symmetrical destruction witnessed in the twin tower collapse videos. indicating that timed charges were placed all along the vertical lengths the buildings. each one of the 47 columns having charges placed all along its vertical 1,300 foot length. as well as each perimeter column. charges that are totaling in the hundreds, which is a helluva a lot of thermite or thermate.

[hack89]

33. They covered the vertical columns with tons of thermate and miles of det cord completely undetected?

Please, tell me more.

[gyroscope]

35. Det cord? lol

there's this modern invention called wireless technology that lets people to do such things as make phone calls from a cordless phone or a cell phone. you may have heard of it? such technology has been around for decades and even allows for explosive and/or incendiary devices to be remotely detonated without wires! amazing isn't it? gee what will they think of next?

[hack89]

37. So you of course can show where large building demolitions are routinely done with wireless?

of course you can.

RF interference - I suggest you research it.

[hack89]

38. Not going to address the tons of thermate? Don't blame you.

the logistics of actually prepping the WTC for CD is an issue Truthers have been ignoring now for a decade - the math never adds up.

[nationalize the fed]

41. Citibank Tower NYC - 1978

The Secret Retrofit

Uploaded on Jan 17, 2008

A useful counterpoint to the 9/11 Truth denier's oft-repeated claim that the World Trade Center's owners could not have installed explosives without being detected.

The video from Discovery's "Science Channel" summarizes the story of the Citicorp Center, which underwent major structural retrofits barely a year after its completion, when the architect, William LeMessurier, realized that a design flaw could lead to the building's collapse in a strong wind.

The truth only became known to the public nearly twenty years later, in a 1995 article that appeared in New Yorker magazine entitled "The Fifty-Nine-Story Crisis"...

"The weakest joint, he discovered, was at the building's thirtieth floor; if that one gave way, catastrophic failure of the whole structure would follow. Next, he took New York City weather records provided by Alan Davenport and calculated the probability of a storm severe enough to tear that joint apart. His figures told him that such an event had a statistical probability of occurring as often as once every sixteen years--what meteorologists call a sixteen-year storm.

"That was very low, awesomely low," LeMessurier said, his voice hushed as if the horror of discovery were still fresh.

On Tuesday morning, August 8th, the public-affairs department of Citibank, Citicorp's chief subsidiary, put out the long delayed press release. In language as bland as a loan officer's wardrobe, the three-paragraph document said unnamed "engineers who designed the building" had recommended that "certain of the connections in Citicorp Center's wind bracing system be strengthened through additional welding.'' The engineers, the press release added, "have assured us that there is no danger."

WELDERS started work almost immediately, their torches a dazzlement in the night sky."

Ask yourself, how many people know this story - even today - ten years after a magazine article was published about it?

It is obvious that the installation of cutter charges in the WTC Towers could easily have been accomplished with no public awareness of what was being planned - especially in view of eyewitness accounts of mysterious power outages and construction noise in the towers in the days and weeks before 9/11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup_Center#Engineering_crisis_of_1978

Because nothing happened as a result of the engineering gaffe, the danger was kept hidden from the public for almost 20 years. It was publicized in a lengthy article in The New Yorker in 1995

[hack89]

44. "WELDERS started work almost immediately, their torches a dazzlement in the night sky."

so you have reports of major and public work on the WTC columns? Work that was visible to all? Lets see it.

[nationalize the fed]

52. Well isn't this interesting

It's like peeling an onion. A rotten onion.

A Director in the company that provided electronic security for the WTC (and Dulles Airport) was Marvin P. Bush, Dubya's brother.

Marvin P. Bush, Principal, Securacom/Stratesec

Securacom/Stratesec installed a new WTC "Security System". Isn't that interesting.
There was a complete "power down"- the weekend before 911. That would mean no security cameras, wouldn't it?

A security company called Stratesec acquires an $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center. It is one of numerous contractors hired in the upgrade of security at the WTC following the 1993 bombing. Stratesec, which was formerly called Securacom, is responsible for installing the “security-description plan”—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center. It has a “completion contract” to provide some of the center’s security “up to the day the buildings fell down,” according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=wirt_d__walker_iii_1

then there's Wirt D Walker

Wirt D. Walker III, a distant relative of George W. Bush, is chairman of the board at Stratesec from 1992, and its CEO from 1999 until January 2002. Another of Stratesec’s directors, from 1991 to 2001, is Mishal Yousef Saud Al Sabah, who is a member of the Kuwaiti royal family. Al Sabah is also chairman of an investment company called the Kuwait-American Corporation (KuwAm), which, between 1993 and 1999, holds a large, often controlling share of Stratesec. In 1996, it owns 90 percent of the company; by 1999 it owns 47 percent
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=wirt_d__walker_iii_1

Coincidence theory?

[hack89]

55. Except Stratsec was excused from the project in 1998 for non-performance

Minor detail Truthers always ignore.

[nationalize the fed]

57. Not according to CEO Barry McDaniel

Stratesec, which was formerly called Securacom, is responsible for installing the “security-description plan”—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center. It has a “completion contract” to provide some of the center’s security “up to the day the buildings fell down,” according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=stratesec

You're talking about "equipment" not a "security description plan"

"Ultimately though, we know that Stratesec was a security contractor for several of the facilities that were compromised on 9/11, including the WTC buildings, Dulles airport where Flight 77 took off, and also United Airlines which owned two of the ill-fated planes. We also know that the CEO of Stratesec came from a background of deep-state connected, opium-funded wealth, and that the many Wirt Dexter Walkers were thereafter steeped in a culture of power and secrecy that has ruled the United States for many years-"
Kevin Ryan, author of Another 19

http://www.amazon.com/Another-Nineteen-Investigating-Legitimate-Suspects/dp/1489507833/

[hack89]

58. Their financial report to the SEC says the project ended in 1998

Revenues decreased by 45% from $12.1 million in 1997 to $6.6 million in 1998. The decrease was due to the closeout of the World Trade Center Project.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1037453/0000925328-99-000032.txt

And they didn't run the system after it was designed:

Stratesec installed the initial security-description plan—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center.
http://www.washingtonspectator.com/articles/20050215bushes_3.cfm


The contractors for the permanent security system are E.J. Electric and Electronic Systems Associates, both of New York. Securacom, Woodcliff Lakes, N.J., is responsible for system integration.

Access Control & Security Systems Integration
July 1997
SECTION: Editor's Letter; ISSN: 1084-6425
LENGTH: 3516 words
HEADLINE: World Trade Center
BYLINE: By CAROL CAREY

Lot more found here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/stratesec.html

[gyroscope]

42. Dozens of contracted maintenance crews

are constantly performing routine repairs and renovation work at the World Trade Center on a daily basis.
If you have ever worked in a large office building, you will know this is the case in any large high-rise office building.

No office worker inside the WTC is going to be able to tell the difference between a normal maintenance crew
and a group of those who may only be disguised as a maintenance crew.

[hack89]

45. So how long did it take to smuggle in and install tons of thermate and wire it up?

want to be the first to take a stab at it?

[gyroscope]

47. As long it takes

how would anyone else in the buildings know what they were up to? want to take a stab at it?
what would make the demolition crew appear to be different from any other maintenance crew?

or do you not have any idea? even if an office worker or two might have suspected something,
how would they prove it? suspicion is not proof.

[hack89]

49. 5 years in complete secrecy

Clinton did it.

[gyroscope]

50. Bush took office January 2001

they had nine months to rig the buildings.

but they could have started the work even before Bush took office, as his brother Marvin Bush was on the board of directors of Stratesec from 1993 to 2000, the company in charge of WTC security according to this.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratesec


just another one of those amazing coincidences! nothing to see here move along.

[hack89]

56. Statsec was removed from the WTC project in 1998 for non-performance. Nt

[gyroscope]

64. No link?

you ask me to provide links and yet you expect me to just take your word for it? lol

even if true, its still possible they could have completed rigging the buildings before they left.

[hack89]

66. Their financial report to the SEC says the project ended in 1998

Revenues decreased by 45% from $12.1 million in 1997 to $6.6 million in 1998. The decrease was due to the closeout of the World Trade Center Project.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1037453/0000925328-99-000032.txt

And they didn't run the system after it was designed:

Stratesec installed the initial security-description plan—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center.
http://www.washingtonspectator.com/articles/20050215bushes_3.cfm


The contractors for the permanent security system are E.J. Electric and Electronic Systems Associates, both of New York. Securacom, Woodcliff Lakes, N.J., is responsible for system integration.

Access Control & Security Systems Integration
July 1997
SECTION: Editor's Letter; ISSN: 1084-6425
LENGTH: 3516 words
HEADLINE: World Trade Center
BYLINE: By CAROL CAREY

Lot more found here:

http://www.911myths.com/html/stratesec.html

[hack89]

25. Do you agree the fires were hot enough to melt aluminum? nt

[gyroscope]

30. But molten aluminum

is silver in color as seen in this image.



the witnesses described molten pools at the WTC as being bright orange in color, like lava or molten steel would be.

the other problem with the aluminum theory is, when you pour water onto it molten aluminum will cool and solidify within minutes. but that will not not happen with molten steel. even as firefighters were pouring tons of water onto the debris pile every day,the molten pools in the collapsed towers did not solidify and remained molten for weeks on end, indicating molten pools of steel.


“I knew what they were standing on top of,” Giuliani says. “They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days. And they put their lives at risk raising that flag.”
- Mayor Rudy Giuliani

http://nymag.com/news/features/28517/

[hack89]

31. How did it keep separate from all that molten steel? Wouldn't it mix?

and besides - do you think any molten metal would be a pure color in that rubble pile mixed with ash and concrete dust? We are not talking about pure samples here, are we?

Molten steel does not solidify when cooled? Really?

You say the aluminum cooled and then post a link about "2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days". So the aluminum cooled and solidified while in fires above the melting point of aluminum? Really? So what stopped that water from flashing to steam before it could cool the aluminum?

[gyroscope]

34. Gibberish

I have no idea what you just said.

[hack89]

36. Lets start with "2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days"

now explain how that aluminum cooled and solidified in temperatures above the melting point of aluminum.

Simple enough for you?

[gyroscope]

40. Jesus Christ

Common sense: any element that has a lower melting point than steel will never cool or solidify as long as it is mixed in with a large amount of molten steel. simple enough for you? why does that even have to be explained?

at such high temperatures, the much weaker substance may very well just evaporate while the molten steel remains intact.

[hack89]

43. So now the aluminum didn't cool it evaporated?

you were the one that said the aluminum cooled and solidified. I take it you are retracting that statement? Good.

[gyroscope]

46. Congrats, you live up to your name

did you flunk out of grade school science?

once again it does not cool and solidify Einstein, as long as it is emersed in the much hotter molten steel.

[hack89]

48. So how do you distinguish the two

if they are all mixed up?

[gyroscope]

51. Lord have mercy

I suggest you enroll in a remedial grade school science class.
maybe then you will understand why your question is such a moronic one.
but I wont hold my breath.

[hack89]

53. You are the one that believes that steel beams burn like logs

lets not be talking about scientific knowledge here.

[gyroscope]

62. That's not what I said

it was an analogy. do you know what an analogy is?
you might want to consult an English dictionary.

and if you have trouble distinguishing between silver and orange, you might want to go have your eyes checked.

[hack89]

65. But a very poor analogy

wood logs combust through a chemical process that releases energy and generates heat. You seem to think that molten steel is not only somehow immune from cooling but can generate enough excess heat(through some unexplained process) to not only stay molten but to also melt adjacent steel beams. Do I really need to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

What color is molten steel when mixed with concrete dust and other debris? Care to finally answer that question?

[gyroscope]

68. Absurd

"You seem to think that molten steel is not only somehow immune from cooling but can generate enough excess heat(through some unexplained process) to not only stay molten but to also melt adjacent steel beams. Do I really need to explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics?"

think for once. what happens when you drop a steal beam into a pool of molten steel? that's right Einsten, the steel beam itself becomes molten and the pool becomes bigger in the process. steel beams are being melted post-collapse as they fall into the molten pool at the base of the towers.

"What color is molten steel when mixed with concrete dust and other debris? Care to finally answer that question?"

another lame question. if you were paying attention, you would know all the witnesses described it as being orange or similar to lava (which is orange), like coming from a volcano, etc. I never heard anyone saying it was silver in color.

[hack89]

69. There was no molten pool to fall into

can you show me the massive ingot of cooled steel that was finally found at the bottom of the rubble pile? You want me to believe there was a massive pool of molten steel? Provide some actual evidence.

Why would there be a pool of molten steel at the bottom of the towers? The collapse started from the top - there was no need to melt the columns at the bottom.

[gyroscope]

70. What do you think happened to all the thermate after the collapse?

that's right genius, it ends up at the base of the towers just like everything else in the building. where it forms a pool and melts everything that falls into it. common sense. you think all that thermate just disappears into thin air after doing its job of cutting the beams? do you understand how gravity works?

how do you explain the super high temperatures weeks after the collapse and what dozens of witnesses specifically described as molten pools of steel or lava? I guess you just want to ignore all that for the sake of maintaining the official lies and propaganda?

I guess you also believe the twin towers were "a hollow steel shaft" (as the official report would have us believe)? lol.

[hack89]

73. The thermate was gone in seconds

It is not a slow motion reaction - it happens explosively.

The temperatures in the pile were due to fires and the thermal insulating effects of the pile that trapped the heat. You do agree that there were fires in the pile.

I certainly believe people saw molten aluminum. Not just steel.

What were the WTC if not a hollow steel shaft? How do you think they were constructed?

[gyroscope]

75. Regardless

the by-product of thermite or thermate and steel is molten iron. and there was a lot of thermate and steel.
do you know what happens when steel beams are dropped into pools of molten iron?

I certainly believe people saw molten aluminum. Not just steel.

believe what you want, but the evidence and witness testimony indicates otherwise.
the color as indicated by witnesses and seen on video, the ultra-high temperatures and duration, etc,
does not support the molten aluminum theory.

[hack89]

77. There was not enough molten steel to produce pools

They just needs to cut the columns, not melt large portions of them. And they didn't even need to cut all of them, just 20 or so core columns at the impact zone.

[gyroscope]

80. Wrong on all counts. nt

[hack89]

81. So cutting the columns would not collapse the building?

But that is how every building is demolished with explosives. We keep hearing how 911 was obviously CD. Yet you are saying the WTC could not be demolished with conventional CD techniques? Why?

[gyroscope]

82. That's not what I said

reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits is it?

and you expect me to believe that you're now an expert on controlled demolition? you know for a fact that they only had to severe 20 of the columns? that's the dumbest assumption I have heard since the hollow steel shaft nonsense. did you just randomly pull that number out of your rear end?

[hack89]

83. There were only forty or so core columns

how many do you think had to be cut to collapse the building? OK - lets say they had to cut all of them. That still does not require you to melt entire beams.

[gyroscope]

85. It's been explained several times

I don't enjoy repeating myself over and over to those who can't or won't read.
or keep arguing with those like yourself who like to pull out random numbers from their rear end. I'm out.

[zappaman]

86. ok

[hack89]

87. So if all the core columns are cut the WTC would not collapse?

you really believe that? No surprise.

[hack89]

84. Do you agree that the WTC collapse obviously looked like CD? nt

[gyroscope]

89. No doubt about that!

it was a CD.

random fires do not cause modern skyscrapers to implode and fall onto themselves in a highly symmetrical fashion, or any fashion.

[hack89]

91. Which means the columns did not have to be melted, just cut.

You know it was not a random fire. There was also massive structural damage due to a fully loaded 767 crashing into the towers at high speed. You are not a no planer are you?

[hack89]

92. So why didn't they use high explosives?

that's what I don't understand. High explosive cutting charges are compact, easy to install and well known. Why would they attempted the largest CD ever attempted using methods never used before for building demolition. That is what has never made sense to me - it would have been easier using high explosives. Thermate complicates things immensely. For one thing, where are you going to get that many thermate charges? Since no one uses thermate for CD, it is not like there is a company cranking out tons of the stuff.

[zappaman]

54. "emersed"?

did you flunk out of grade school English?
might want to be careful about lecturing others...

[gyroscope]

63. The spelling Nazi strikes again

what those who have no argument tend to do.

[zappaman]

67. says the guy who said

"did you flunk out of grade school science?"

Look up the word "irony" while you're at it.

[gyroscope]

71. The thread is mainly about the science of 9/11

not a spelling contest.

[zappaman]

72. So why haven't you presented any science?

[gyroscope]

74. Why haven't you?

you need to ask yourself that question.

[zappaman]

76. Cuz I like to sit back and watch you get your ass handed to you.

Plus I don't want to pile on!

[gyroscope]

78. So the spelling Nazi

spells like a 3rd grade English flunkie.

How's that irony for you?

[zappaman]

79. Uh huh

seriously, you really got your ass handed to you.
shouldn't you be off licking your wounds?
or perhaps, do what you did before and change your name?

[gyroscope]

88. Where'd you go to school? The Ebonics Academy?

Let me know when you've acquired third grade grammar and spelling proficiency, and learned how to count.

then maybe one day people might be able to take you seriously, but don't quote me on that.

[zappaman]

90. Lol.

Good one, foo.

[William Seger]

10. "...at one point I think they were at 2800 degrees! "

He may think that, but it isn't true: http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/thermal.r09.html

AVIRIS records the near-infrared signature of heat remotely. The accompanying maps are false color images that show the core affected area around the World Trade Center. Initial analysis of these data revealed a number of thermal hot spots on September 16 in the region where the buildings collapsed 5 days earlier. Analysis of the data indicates temperatures greater than 800^oF.

[wildbilln864]

11. your link cites the temps five days later....

[William Seger]

13. That's the only series of aerial "hotspot" readings that were taken

Show me a documented temperature that was higher.

But no, you can't judge temperatures by the color in a video. They aren't that accurate to start with, and then in any given shot, the recorded color depends on things like the camera's settings for exposure, saturation and white balance.

[superbeachnut]

12. No melted steel on 911, 911 truth fails, and falls short of Creative Speculation standards

13 years and no evidence of melted steel.

911 truth, no evidence movement.

[nationalize the fed]

39. FEMA: Limited Metallurgical Examination

WTC 7 Sample 1

"Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible"

"The eutectic temperature for this mixture strongly suggests that the temperatures in this region of the steel beam approached 1,000 C (1,800 F) which is substantially lower than would be expected for melting this steel."

Summary for Sample 1:

2. Heating of the steel into a hot corrosive environment approaching 1,000 C (1,800 F) results in the formation of a eutectic mixture of iron, oxygen and sulfur that liquefied the steel.

FEMA STUDY (PDF) http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

[hack89]

59. Having posted a mechanism to melt steel after the collapse without thermite

but rather with chemicals found in the rubble pile and fire, what are you trying to tell us here?

[superbeachnut]

60. 1000 C means no melted steel. You proved no melted steel on 911 - you are a debunker

You proved no melted steel, it was corrosion. You don't understand what a eutectic is, that is chemical engineering, and it means no melted steel.

You are also debunking 911 truth who say the temperature was that of thermite, and you posted proof of temperature up to 1000 C. And you posted the explanation. Double fail - not understanding chemical engineering, and debunking melted steel.

[superbeachnut]

61. No melted steel found.

13 years and no evidence of melted steel. 13 years of failure for 911 truth.