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[paulbibeau]

This message was self-deleted by its author (paulbibeau) on Tue Dec 15, 2015, 07:08 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[libodem]

1. Interesting take

I've ways felt something was fishy.

[NoMoreWarNow]

2. 9/11 was much more than about starting some military action-- it was about a whole world wide war on

terror, a new surveillance state, new threats, building up the military industrial complex, creating a climate of fear, etc.

So your bit about a fairy tale is off base, imo.

I do agree the truth is far far uglier and deeper than most people want to think about, and it certainly verges into other conspiracy matters.

Nonetheless, there's little doubt there are cointelpro types within the 9/11 truth movement, and Jones is so ridiculous, he's likely one, and most hard core truthers have thought this for years.

[paulbibeau]

3. This is part of my problem with the truth movement though...

Alex Jones is ridiculous therefore Alex Jones is a CIA/FBI plant.

As opposed to Alex Jones is ridiculous therefore Alex Jones is ridiculous.

You see? There's no evidence that Jones is some kind of spy, is there? Any memos? Eyewitness testimony?

The speculations of the truth movement are infinitely elastic. Everything is evidence of the grand plot, even though the grand plot changes from person to person.

Ghost hunters and young earth creationists do the exact same thing.

[NoMoreWarNow]

5. like most things in this realm, I doubt there is definitive proof of Jones being a plant

such as a receipt (!)-- but I know there have been some fairly long pieces written about him and presumably it is more than just speculation. The fact is, Jones has done some VERY suspicious things over the years, things that are not just being ridiculous. There is in fact so much out there on this, that it would take many many hours to go through it all.

[paulbibeau]

6. Okay, but do you have an example?

What is the best, most compelling piece of evidence you know of that Alex Jones is some kind of operative?

Not trying to be argumentative about it. But the idea that people have written long pieces about him doesn't impress me as proof of anything. This gets to my comparison of conspiracy theorists with ghost hunters... They take a bunch of weird phenomena, and rather than try to analyze it, they jump right ahead to the crazy explanation.

And I think it takes the air out of real dissent and skepticism toward our government's security and foreign policy. Dissent and skepticism that I think is necessary.

Let's borrow an idea from the evolution/creation debate: The appearance of order might be evidence of a design. But it might also be evidence of a collection of simple laws and rules that have created an orderly and intricate system.

Like... presidents are always under pressure to solve any crisis that appears on CNN.
And... people kind of rally around wars.
And powerful countries fill vacuums of power.
And... our country is kind of hypocritical about its policies, so policy-makers are forever using explanations for our actions that sound nice, but don't reveal the hard truths.
And... we need oil.

Etc.

You can build a whole world full of trouble with simple rules, good intentions, arrogance, and greed.