Heavy fighting across Gaza as Israel presses ahead with renewed US military and diplomatic support

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Heavy fighting across Gaza as Israel presses ahead with renewed US military and diplomatic support

BY NAJIB JOBAIN, WAFAA SHURAFA AND SAMY MAGDY
Updated 10:33 AM EST, December 10, 2023

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Heavy fighting raged Sunday across Gaza, including in the devastated north, as Israel pressed ahead with its offensive after the U.S. blocked the latest international push for a cease-fire and rushed more munitions to its close ally.

Israel has faced rising international outrage and calls for a permanent cease-fire after the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians. About 90% of Gaza’s 2.3 million people have been displaced within the besieged territory, where U.N. agencies say there is no safe place to flee.

The United States has lent vital support to the offensive once again in recent days, by vetoing United Nations Security Council efforts to end the fighting that enjoyed wide international support, and by pushing through an emergency sale of over $100 million worth of tank ammunition to Israel.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanked U.S. President Joe Biden for the “important ammunition for the continuation of the war.”

-snip-

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-10-2023-4414014e31015af32e99a5767b18927c

[Basic LA]

1. Fighting? Looks more like slaughter.

A world-class hightech military with a nuclear arsenal--completely sponsored, armed, & outfitted by the world's richest superpower--flattening a little open-air prison ghetto of starving & wounded civilians, mostly women & children. That's fighting?

[CincyDem]

2. Terrible. If only there were a way to stop this. Hmmm, I wonder what that could be? n/t

[Basic LA]

4. A way to stop the brutal Occupation?

I don't know. They would have to work with the UN to create Two Free States. End the Occupation to end the eternal Resistance to Occupation. It would be tough, but better than bombing babies on television. Better than pogroms against West Bank indigenous people.

[CincyDem]

5. Sorry...thought we were talking about fighting and slaughter today?

But if you want to talk 2-state now, that’s cool.

Check your history.

I think what you meant to say is that what they need is a third proposal. A two state solution that places zero responsibility on Palestinians to agree with Israel’s right to exist since that was the stumbling block in 1947 and 2000 when Palestinians rejected the offers.

I believe you’re falling into the common trap of misdiagnosing the root causes. Many think Hamas fights Israel because of what Israel does when, in fact, Hamas fights Israel because it exists.

[Basic LA]

6. A third proposal? Sounds constructive.

Anything's better than the bombardment & collective punishment that Israel is presenting to the watching world right now.

[CincyDem]

7. Apparently not everyone agrees.

Hamas could stop all this shit short and long term. Release hostages and short term it stops. Recognize Israel and long term it stops.

As long as Hamas remains committed daily to holding hostages and deeply committed to kill Jews, there is nothing Israel can offer to create a third proposal. Unless you expect Israel to agree to its own eradication ?

[Basic LA]

8. Well, your reasonableness is appreciated.

The back & forth can be frustrating on this. Just wish there was a better Third Way than surrendering to the status quo.
Was reading Sunday's LA Times headlines just now: "Students' Rallying Cry: Free Palestine!"
And: "Israel Keeps Up Bombing, Including In Safe Zones."
And: "U.S. Is Struggling To Maintain Support For Israel.:
Lastly: "Palestinian Cause Takes Off At Campuses."
The status quo is not looking so good.

[CincyDem]

9. I agree with you and headlines are designed to sell clicks vs. inform.

You're right that the status quo is not looking good and it makes me ask...how did you feel about the status quo ante... the conditions on the evening of 10/6 and before.

At that point, there was what I'll call a "semi-cease fire"... Hamas would fire rockets into Israel, Israel would shoot them down. Israel was providing some noticeable amount of water and electricity to Gaza. To say everything was perfect would be ludicrous but ask most Palestinians today if they could have the relative calm of 10/6 back and I think (I don't know but I think) they'd say yes. Hamas fighters, maybe not but the average Gaza person in the street...probably yes.

I agree with your assessment of the headlines and it's consistent with Bernie's comments today that Hamas is winning the PR war. They're doing a great job of helping the world forget about their rape, dismemberment, torture and kidnapping of Israeli citizens on 10/7. This global outrage is less about what's happening to Gaza and more about who's doing it. If, for some reason, Gaza had picked a fight with Egypt and was getting hammered like this from Cairo---I doubt the would would even notice.

And, as I have said from the start...there is a way and unfortunately the ones in control don't want it to be different. From 6,000 miles away, it's easy to say "Israel is in charge" but in reality "Hamas is calling the tunes on this dance". It's over when they want it to be over.

Cheers

[Basic LA]

10. Cheers to you, too!

Your position is clear. Thanks for a civilized difference of opinion. (Now I have to check out that Bernie piece.)

[Beastly Boy]

3. And herein lies the problem: "Israel has faced rising international outrage and calls for a permanent cease-fire"

And Hamas has not. International outrage consistently fails to hold hamas accountable for anything.

[fly2man]

11. Does terrorism pay?

The important question is does terrorism work.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is not going to last another 200 years. There will be some settlement.

Rewind the world. Let's say there was no October 7th attack. Would the ultimate settlement have been better for Palestinians than it will be now after the October 7th attack?

I really don't know the answer.

Obviously 15,000 more Palestinians would be alive. But will they eventually end up with a bigger/better state for having carried out the October 7th attack?

I have heard discussions that there will be more pressure on Israel due to the 15,000 deaths to make political concessions.

You could in fairness ask Israel whether it would have been better off if it it didn't kill the 15,000. That debate would be about whether the Israeli response deterred anything or just encouraged more terrorism, and whether Hamas would have released hostages without military pressure. Israel certainly is paying an economic price for its large response.

[TheKentuckian]

12. Of course it works as long as it is allowed to.

It is premised on taking advantage of morality all around.