Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Samrob

(4,298 posts)
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 01:42 AM Mar 2023

Wow! And to think so many here were chastised for opining about Bibi helping Trump win in 2016

It's a complicated world but Israel has never really been an ally but a user. And the truth seldom is told.

https://archive.is/bvyFj

heartbroken for HRC but just imagine what she would have faces as President? She is better off now and vindicated for all her warnings.

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Wow! And to think so many here were chastised for opining about Bibi helping Trump win in 2016 (Original Post) Samrob Mar 2023 OP
"House of mirrors" is useful allusion Tetrachloride Mar 2023 #1
Fascist authoritarianism is the same thing, whatever country allows it. OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2023 #2
I really agree with your last paragraph. multigraincracker Mar 2023 #3
+1 2naSalit Mar 2023 #4
Bamford has an Israel obsession. Mosby Mar 2023 #5

Tetrachloride

(8,444 posts)
1. "House of mirrors" is useful allusion
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 02:00 AM
Mar 2023

their goals are not our goals

moreover, this piece of DU is separate from the rest for reasons often not related to the weather but can be related to the calendar

OAITW r.2.0

(28,258 posts)
2. Fascist authoritarianism is the same thing, whatever country allows it.
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 02:17 AM
Mar 2023

Israel should know it's roots and should never allowed it to take root in their country. It's the product of fear.

multigraincracker

(34,009 posts)
3. I really agree with your last paragraph.
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 03:51 AM
Mar 2023

HRC will end up the hero of the whole thing. That is what she deserves. I've felt so bad for her the whole time.
I live among many HRC haters and when I ask them why they hate her so much, they can never give me an answer.
I would love to see her as a Justice on the highest court. She has been right about everything.

2naSalit

(92,452 posts)
4. +1
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 04:16 AM
Mar 2023

I also felt bad for us as a nation... we really lost out too. But I will always feel that HRC was purposefully robbed of many honors she deserves.

Mosby

(17,383 posts)
5. Bamford has an Israel obsession.
Sun Mar 26, 2023, 01:51 PM
Mar 2023

Going back years.



A subtler variation of Greenwald’s cartoonish approach is on display in the work of James Bamford. Heralded as our finest investigative journalist covering the NSA—he is the author of three books about the agency—Bamford has spent the last five years repeating his favorite cautionary tale, the one about how America’s spymasters are secretly powered by Israeli cunning. Last year, for example, Bamford wrote a story in Wired titled “Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA,” revealing the role two Israeli technology firms play in making the agency’s surveillance infrastructure possible.

“In a rare and candid admission to Forbes,” Bamford wrote, “Retired Brig. Gen. Hanan Gefen, a former commander of the highly secret Unit 8200, Israel’s NSA, noted his former organization’s influence on Comverse, which owns Verint, as well as other Israeli companies that dominate the U.S. eavesdropping and surveillance market.”

It sounds like pretty damning stuff, unless one realizes two key facts. The first is that Bamford’s “rare and candid admission”—a term crucial to creating an aura of mystery and intrigue around what would have otherwise been just another one of the myriad commercial transactions that occur daily in a globalized economy—was anything but: The Israeli army’s contribution to that country’s technology scene in general, and Unit 8200’s involvement in particular, is widely discussed, including by members of the unit itself, and it formed much of the thesis of Start-Up Nation, the 2009 best-seller by Dan Senor and Saul Singer.

But even those forest-dwellers who may be honestly surprised to learn that Western armies develop and use advanced technologies—such as, to name but one prominent example, the Internet, which owes its existence to the U.S. Department of Defense—would surely not be surprised to learn that nations also sell each other stuff. Last month, for example, a report noted that the U.S. Army will pay $77 million to replace old M4 rifles with shiny, new M4A1s. The latter are produced by FN Herstal, a subsidiary of the Herstal Group, a corporation that is entirely owned by the Walloon Region of Belgium, which is to say, by a foreign government. But don’t expect Bamford et al., to evoke the same ominous hum about the infiltration of the Walloons; foreign military contracts, apparently, are only a terrifying evil that threatens to undermine American democracy when the foreign companies are Israeli.

It would be crass, and largely inaccurate, to chalk up Bamford’s and Greenwald’s obsessive focus on Israel’s supposed role in evil global conspiracies to simple anti-Semitism. Instead, the ideology that drives their tendency to see the NSA and Israel as two heads of the same Satanic beast is more complex and ideologically-driven—an attack on the doctrines of exceptionalism that fueled the rise of both America and Israel. Beginning in the 1960s, this idea that America and Israel were virtuous nations apart began to drive a certain segment of the global left nuts, and so they set off on a search for new heroes. “The native,” Jean-Paul Sartre wrote in the introduction to Frantz Fanon’s explosive The Wretched of the Earth, “has only one choice, between servitude or sovereignty. … Violence, like Achilles’ lance, can heal the wounds that it has inflicted.” Men of the left saw no problem with lending their reputations to terrorist organizations with nationalist aspirations that shared nothing of their humanistic and universalist ideologies, as long as these groups also hated America and Israel. In order for history to progress as it should, the New Chosen People had to displace the old, even if it meant a bizarre redrawing of political coalitions. We see remnants of this ideology still, in the philosopher Judith Butler’s argument that Hamas and Hezbollah are somehow part of the global left, or in the recent movements against “homonationalism,” dedicated to condemning gay Israelis for being proud of their nation’s generally progressive policies regarding gay rights.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/glenn-greenwald-nsa-leaks-snowden

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»Wow! And to think so man...