Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumGerman Teachers' Union Urges Total Boycott Of Israel
The teachers union in the city of Oldenburg published an article in its September paper calling for a complete boycott of the Jewish state, sparking criticism from Israel’s embassy, German teachers and pro-Israel activists, as well as the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
It appears to be the first call to boycott Israel or Jews from a German organized labor group since the Holocaust. Critics accuse the union of stoking modern Jew-hatred.
The anti-Israel activist and teacher Christoph Glanz outlined the goals of the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement in his two-page article in the magazine of the Education and Science Workers’ Union (GEW).
“The GEW is an important institution in Germany. That is why we are surprised and disappointed, that the Oldenburg chapter chose to re-publish the pamphlet of a BDS activist in its magazine,” the embassy told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday.
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http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/German-teachers-union-urges-total-boycott-of-Israel-466788
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COLGATE4
(14,840 posts)Response to Purveyor (Original post)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 4, 2016, 03:42 PM - Edit history (1)
There's a reason Obama, Hillary, and Bernie believe BDS anti-zionism is nothing more than Jew hatred.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)No "hard" info on what the GEW article is supposed to contain, no links - only reactions of people to the article...
Doesn't Jerusalem Post have an editor that can proofread?
A Google search reveals that there are several articles out there in several languages - but they all have the same source: the article in the OP.
Hmm - this smells like hasbara...
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 5, 2016, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3516193,00.htmlHere's Adalah, on Mondoweiss....
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/cultural-prominent-campaign/
More Mondoweiss...
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/08/giving-some-love-to-the-cultural-boycott/
So why the pretense, as if BDS boycotting Israel (not just settlements) is something new?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I'm sorry, I don't drink hasbara Kool-Aid...
shira
(30,109 posts)“With the publication of this article from the field of the so-called BDS campaign, we made a big mistake,“ Heinz Bührmann, chairman of the of Education and Science Workers’ Union (GEW) in Oldenburg, wrote on Monday. The local union’s parent-teacher organization termed BDS “anti-Semitic” on its Twitter feed.
Even in the original Deutsche, BDS is antisemitic.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)There seems to be an ongoing discussion about BDS in Oldenburg, and without actually knowing what the article was about, it's difficult to know if the criticism is BS or not. After all, it's a bit strange that a publication with a circulation of 1,200 can produce such a strong reaction.
Important stage victory for BDS Oldenburg and Freedom of Speech
Source: International Solidarity Movement, 18th June 2016
On 14 June 2016 the Regional Court Oldenburg ordered Sara Rihl, local SPD politician and student member of the senate of the university of Oldenburg, not to repeat her statements relating to Christoph Glanz. Rihl had played a leading role in the prevention of an event scheduled by the Palestinian BDS campaign.
Read more: https://palsolidarity.org/2016/06/important-stage-victory-for-bds-oldenburg-and-freedom-of-speech/
The link to ISM does not imply support for them in any way.
Response to Little Tich (Reply #8)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Also, the GEW retraction you refer to doesn't criticize the pro-BDS article for its anti-Semitic content. The JPost article in post #7 is somewhat misleading. I was fooled myself after reading it.
The question still remains - what was it in that article that was so horrible, and why can't it even be quoted?
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)
shira
(30,109 posts)What was he trying to say about BDS?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)It's possible that the article (or reprinted BDS poster?) did indeed cross lines with hateful content, but OTOH, it's also possible that it represented a political view that merely wasn't officially supported by the GEW. Interestingly, this is similar to another JPost article about a segment in the German TV-show Tagesschau, which reported on the unfair water restrictions for Palestinians in the West Bank. The story never took off, unfortunately, as it would've been easy to refute.
I really don't think that my suspicions are misplaced - the absence of any information whatsoever about what the BDS article contained has activated my inbuilt BS detector.
German Public TV demonizes Israel’s water policy report, unleashes storm of criticism
Source: Jerusalem Post, 08/28/2016
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/German-Public-TV-demonizes-Israels-water-policy-report-unleashes-storm-of-criticism-466259
shira
(30,109 posts)Ask for 200% proof and bend over backwards into complete insanity for Israel's detractors while never giving anywhere near the same benefit of the doubt to Israel or its supporters.
6chars
(3,967 posts)NOT. You said we knew nothing about the magazine article, I did the leg work and found the organization's online magazine and the followup to the article. It is not clear that there is a paper article at all - from the online article, it says the article has been deleted - hard to do that with a paper magazine.
I get what you're doing. No matter what evidence is presented you say "prove to me that we aren't living in The Matrix" so you never have to accept evidence that says some anti-Israel did something bad or that Israel did something good.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)
evidence.
The Päd-OL seems indeed to be a printed publication that's sent to GEW members via snail mail.
If you do some more legwork and check out the other online issues, you'll see it's definitely a publication meant to be printed:
http://oldenburg.gewweserems.de/category/paed-ol/
So where's the proof? Has anyone actually read the article?
Response to Little Tich (Reply #16)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)Controversy in Germany. The union of teachers in the city of Oldenburg has signed a pro-BDS article and virulently anti-Zionist or even anti-Semitic. Members of the Bundestag condemn.
"Israel is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing." Or "the government of Israel is a racist horrible spectacle." These are some phrases that can be found in an article in the September newsletter GEW (teachers union) in Oldenburg. The author of the text, Christoph Glanz, known for defending the positions of BDS, put under fire over the institution to which he belongs.
Members of the Social Democratic Party and member of the Greens, elected to the Bundestag were once strongly condemned the remarks and ordered the GEW to clarify its position. Thus, the Social Democratic Michaela Engelmeier "expects and demands that the GEW Oldenburg to distance and condemns all forms of anti-Semitism and the BDS."
"Pathétique"
Waiting who have the gift to irritate Efraim Zuroff. The Nazi hunter, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Jerusalem, found "a pathetic teacher union, that is to say, a responsible institution in charge of the education of children of Oldenburg can recognize the Semitism when he jumps into his eyes. " He added that "the refusal to criticize someone - in this case, Christoph Glanz - oozing Semitism and lies about Israel is morally wrong practices with terrible consequences." a statement of the GEW was expected Thursday night dissociating themselves from the author of the article.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Perhaps if the original GEW article could be found...
Response to shira (Reply #21)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
shira
(30,109 posts)Like they're puppets & aren't responsible for anything they say or write.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 10, 2016, 01:06 AM - Edit history (1)
not completely accurate.
Perhaps it's a bit early to draw conclusions, especially since the facts aren't known?
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 10, 2016, 07:07 AM - Edit history (1)
https://twitter.com/intifadaofpeaceLooks like this was maybe his original article:
https://twitter.com/grosser_houdini/status/768011548728127489
Ask him for it on Twitter. Wait, never mind....I just found it.
Here it is:
http://bds-kampagne.de/2016/08/23/palaestinaisrael-ist-es-in-oldenburg-nicht-moeglich-unrecht-zu-dokumentieren-und-gerechtigkeit-einzufordern/
There's this letter in German protesting the original article:
https://www.uni-oldenburg.de/fileadmin/user_upload/schwuref/Protesbrief_GEW.pdf
Still not enough for you? LoL.
Response to shira (Reply #26)
Little Tich This message was self-deleted by its author.
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Now after finally reading it, I don't consider the article anti-Semitic.
shira
(30,109 posts)Response to shira (Reply #30)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
shira
(30,109 posts)Grandpa was probably more open about his hatred & would wonder why little sonny hides behind the human rights veneer.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Besides the call for BDS isn't specific enough to actually know what's to be included, but a quick check of what the BDS-Kampagne specifically mentions on their site reveal that all targets of their BDS are involved in the illegal settlements or the occupation in some way. It would be logical that the GEW article refers to the BDS done by the BDS-Kampagne, which doesn't mean a total boycott of Israel.
shira
(30,109 posts)Just as Omar Barghouti - the founder of BDS - is antisemitic for calling on a complete boycott of all that's Israel, while inciting and supporting the murder of Jews. Nazis incited against Jews and supported their murder. Those who support Hamas & Hezbollah terror are no better than Nazis. People & organizations supporting Jew hating terrorists shouldn't be defended here. Ever.
shira
(30,109 posts)You agree with Amos Oz's argument.
The author of the GEW article calls for Palestinian right-of-return. Everyone knows that means the destruction of Israel. Even Mahmoud Abbas admitted this:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/abbas-deemed-it-illogical-for-israel-to-absorb-5-million-refugees-palestine-papers-show-1.338981
And here's the founder of BDS, Omar Barghouti...
Omar Barghouti, Ottawa University, March 4, 2009
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)As to their ancestral homeland, Israel isn't stopping them from living in Gaza or the W.Bank.
That's also their ancestral homeland.
Hundreds of thousands of settlers claim Judea/Samaria as their ancestral homeland, but you don't believe they have a right to live there - even as citizens of Palestine. Your views are so twisted & confused, there's nothing consistent about them.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 22, 2016, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)
If I understand your position, you are promoting the idea that anyone has the right to live anywhere that person claims as their "ancestral homeland," and that said right takes priority over any other rights anyone else may have. Have I got that correct?
shira
(30,109 posts)aranthus
(3,386 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...other than that right coming at the expense of the Jewish people's rights.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Palestinians is racist.
Giving equal rights to Palestinians won't remove any rights for Jews, unless you mean in the sense that removing the Jim Crow laws in the American South removed the rights of American Whites.
Could you be more specific on how giving Palestinians and Jews equal access to their ancestral homeland would somehow result in that that "right takes priority over any other rights anyone else may have."? Who would be discriminated against?
shira
(30,109 posts)Apparently, you'd find China's "settler" invasion of Tibet perfectly lawful & reasonable given how 100's of millions of Chinese could hypothetically claim bloodlines that go back to Tibetan territory. Tibetans would lose their right to self-determination & sovereignty. But so what, correct? Equal rights...
I think you need to see this in other situations worldwide to realize how ridiculous it sounds WRT to Israel/Palestine.
In fact, what's stopping 5 million Jews from the USA going into the W.Bank to live in their indigenous homeland? So what if that robs the Palestinians there of their sovereignty and self-determination, correct? After all, equal rights. Palestinians and Tibetans lose out due to equal rights. Fair is fair... Come on, that's sheer idiocy.
Norman Finkelstein in his anti-BDS video also brought up International Law. And Israel's existence & sovereignty is rooted in International Law. No one, not even the corrupt UN, would find it reasonable to change Israel's demographics so radically overnight. That's not International Law. Even if you could make the best moral case for a full Palestinian RoR based on "equal rights", it's not grounded in International Law. You cannot justify such a position on International Law, where the consensus is that Israel exists, like any other state in the world.
In your situation, Israel would cease to exist and that is against International Law. Mahmoud Abbas & Omar Barghouti of BDS admit that full RoR means the end of Israel. It's time you realize how ridiculous, obscene, and unlawful your solution to the I/P conflict is.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)If 600.000 Jews can claim that right in order to live in their ancestral homeland in the West Bank, I can't really see how a few million Palestinians could be denied to claim the same right live in their ancestral homeland in Israel. Frankly, I can't see how anyone should be denied this right anywhere.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 23, 2016, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Is that really okay, making the Palestinians a minority within the W.Bank....outnumbered 2 to 1?
How about 200 million Chinese decide to move into Tibet, becoming the majority by a longshot. Claiming bloodlines to Tibet. No biggie? They have that right and Tibetans can just suck it because... equal rights?
Because Mahmoud Abbas & your boy Omar Barghouti of BDS say that would end Israel. That's why it should be denied. Why are you still playing games?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I really can't see why there should be any problems with ratifying it. That would mean that all Palestinians and Jews have a homeland and the end of the I/P conflict. Israel would still be there, and no Israelis would lose anything. I'm sure that the Palestinians would've preferred their own state, but beggars can't be choosers...
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 24, 2016, 03:51 PM - Edit history (3)
Something you'd never approve in any other situation worldwide, only WRT Israel.
So China can flood Tibet with more Hans than there are Tibetans, ending Tibetan sovereignty. Turkey can flood N.Cyprus with more Turks than there are Greeks there - ending Greek sovereignty. Same WRT Syria flooding Lebanon, Morocco flooding W.Sahara, Indonesians in E.Timor, Vietnamese in Cambodia, Armenians in Azerbaijan, Russians in Abkhazia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia.
Ridiculous, right? No way that should happen....
Whether or not you believe that's really and truly happening - in great numbers or small numbers - is irrelevant. The point is you believe in "equal rights" so the rights of all those occupied & losing their self-determination are secondary to the rights of those flooding the area based on bloodlines going back thousands of years. Those being occupied can just suck it. Their countries & cultures destroyed, no more self-determination. Yay for settler colonialism! But what the hell - equal rights...
Forget Israel/Palestine for a moment & think how indefensible your position has become.
You don't see problems with Israel accepting Gaza as part of 1 big state? No issues with Hamas? No immediate suicide bombings, Hamas attacking Jews....? Really? Are you serious?
So one big Jewish state is fine with you? A Zionist homeland?
Or Israel should just take its chances, allow full RoR, hope Hamas or the PLO is never elected....what could possibly go wrong?
aranthus
(3,386 posts)What is the basis of this supposed right?
To be clear, the Jews living in the West Bank have a claim to live there, but that doesn't translate into a right. They are there because the government of Israel allows them to be there. What you are proposing is that Palestinians get to live in Israel even if the government doesn't want them to live there. What is the basis of that right?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)It's of course mostly a moral right, but it's also a principle outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Unfortunately, most countries are generally unwilling to allow the return of the very people they caused to flee, so there's little support for their actual return in national law.
Not all laws are just, and I personally think that all refugees should be allowed to return, or at least be given a safe haven somewhere else and a chance for a return later. I think that providing a carte blanche for ethnic cleansing is very, very wrong.
The Palestinians are just one group of refugees denied the right to return - this is a big problem.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I dislike discrimination because I think it's unjust and should be illegal - however, this doesn't make discriminatory laws illegal - only unjust.
shira
(30,109 posts)The news that Glanz welcomed the idea that the Jewish state should be eradicated surfaced on Thursday in a review of his YouTube comments endorsing a pro-BDS video in 2015.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Leading-BDS-activist-Move-Israel-to-Germany-467972
Has the penny dropped yet?
How much more evidence do you need?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Perhaps if you could provide proof that the allegations in the headline are true, I would be more inclined to believe them. The previous allegations about the GEW article were obviously fake. It's quite possible that the evidence doesn't support the allegations this time either.
shira
(30,109 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)BERLIN: German Politicians from the Green and the Social Democratic parties urged the Oldenburg teachers’ union to condemn the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) campaign targeting the Jewish state.
"I expect that the GEW Oldenburg will follow its federal union and condemn BDS as anti-Semitic. Everything else would be unacceptable,“ Volker Beck, the Green Party MP, told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday.
The 1,200 Education and Science Workers’ Union (GEW) in Oldenburg has been engulfed in an anti-Israel scandal this week because of its September publication of an article calling for a total boycott of Israel.
The GEW member and teacher Christoph Glanz , who authored the pro-BDS article, faced sharp criticism from the Social Democratic party MP Michaela Engelmeier.
She confirmed to the Post on Thursday that her tweet criticizing a GEW member for racism and anti-Semitism was directed at Glanz.
Engelmeier tweeted this week that “she is pleased that the GEW Oldenburg distanced itself from the anti-Semitism and racism of one its members with a clarification.“
However, the GEW walked back its clarification condemning BDS on Wednesday evening. The GEW posted an apparent defense of the boycott Israel article stating, the GEW “rejects the contentions that it published an anti-Israel or hostile to Israel article“ in its membership magazine.
The GEW scrubbed its website of a Monday apology for publishing the BDS article.
The GEW website was offline on Thursday. The chairman of the GEW in Oldenburg Heinz Bührmann told the Post by mobile phone today that the union will publish a new statement Thursday evening—it’s fourth since last week—on the allegations of labor union-animated Jew-hatred. He told the Post that statement will reject BDS.
“I expect and demand that the GEW Oldenburg distances itself and condemns every form of anti-Semitism and BDS,“ Engelmeier told the Post regarding the GEW’s walkback of its Monday posting.
Speaking from Jerusalem, Efraim Zuroff, the Simon Wiesenthal Center's chief Nazi-hunter, told the Post “that it is pathetic that the teachers’ union, an ostensibly respectful institution and responsible for the education of the children of Oldenburg ,cannot recognize anti-Semitism when it is staring them in the face. The refusal to criticize people—in this case Christoph Glanz—who spouts anti-Semitism and lies about Israel is a moral failure with terrible practical consequences."
Glanz, who uses the name Christopher Ben Kush on his Twitter feed, said, "Israel´s government is a racist freak show.“ He also accused Israel of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
The Post's emails and telephone calls to Glanz on Thursday were not immediately returned. He has previously said the allegation of anti-Semitism against him is “absurd.“
In an email to the Post about the charges of anti-Semitism leveled against Glanz, Bianca Schöneich, a spokeswoman for the state of Lower Saxony's public school agency, where Oldenburg is located, wrote on Tuesday that the state education agency “takes the allegations very seriously and is examining them“
Schöneich wrote that teachers are civil servants and, in general, are supposed to be“politically neutral.“
German Civil Service law prescribes neutrality for teachers.
Israel’s embassy told the Post on Thursday the embassy “is aware of the new incidents“ in connection with the GEW Oldenburg website.
Israel’s embassy told the Post last week the GEW is an important German institution so it was “surprised and disappointed” that the Oldenburg chapter chose to republish the pamphlet of a BDS activist in its magazine.
“We rely on the moral values and intellectual capabilities of readers of the magazine to correctly classify the pamphlet, but we still expect the magazine to show better editorial standards,” the embassy said.