The Lie of "Disproportionality"

[ericson00]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8132/disproportionality

U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, a candidate in the Democratic primaries for president, claimed that Israel's response in the 2014 Gaza war was "disproportionate," and Haaretz columnist Asher Schechter agreed. Yet neither Sanders nor Haaretz provided evidence to back that claim.

Schechter made one point worth mentioning: the claim of "extremely permissive rules of engagement during the operation that aimed to protect the lives of IDF soldiers even if the cost was a greater loss of civilian lives." If true, it simply means that IDF soldiers, as all soldiers, have to make split-second decisions, and when they do so in a situation when confronted with Palestinians who appear to be terrorists, they err on the side of assuming they are terrorists in order to protect their own lives. That is not unexpected, and Israel has no obligation to do otherwise.

Israel has repeatedly demonstrated how much it values the civilian lives of the people it is fighting. No other military force drops leaflets, telephones its adversaries and "knocks on the roof" to warn them of an imminent attack, so that civilians will have time to evacuate. Israel values the lives of Palestinian civilians, but naturally, it values the lives of its own soldiers more. Israel has repeatedly demonstrated how much it values its soldiers, for example when it freed more than one thousand Palestinian criminals. Why would anyone expect Israel to suddenly to value its soldiers less when forced to fight terrorism in Gaza?

[Uponthegears]

1. From the mouth of John Bolton

to the substance of your post.

An opinion piece from the Gatestone (Stonegate) Institute?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Gatestone_Institute

Seriously?

[ericson00]

2. sorry, but sourcewatch is no different than conservapedia

I like real info, not echo chamber stuff

[Uponthegears]

3. How much of a "source" do you need

to know that John Bolton, the head of Gatestone, is a neoconservative anti_Islam hate monger (who, just incidentally, was instrumental in the rape and murder of Catholic nuns in El Salvador).

Willful ignorance does not excuse parroting right-wing hate speech.

[shira]

7. You haven't disputed one thing in the OP, nor proven the author is rightwing. n/t

[shira]

4. The author is a left-leaning Arab based in Canada....

Fred Maroun, a left-leaning Arab based in Canada, has authored op-eds for New Canadian Media, among other outlets. From 1961-1984, he lived in Lebanon.

[Uponthegears]

5. Are you counting on

No one at DU having access to Google or Bing?

Gatestone (classified as an anti-Muslim hate group by the Center for American Progress), Jerusalem Post, Times of Israel, Israel National News, Jewish Press, Israel's Voice, even Aish (the source of your cut n paste) . . . all the big lefty rags

[shira]

6. Maroun is no rightwinger, no matter who publishes him.

Same as Dershowitz.

Of course, to the far Left extreme, batshit loony, anti-Imperialist, Israel hating Hamas fan club, everyone not as insane as they are are rightwingers.

[Uponthegears]

8. It's more a matter

of who doesn't publish him, as in any progressive outlets. As for Dershowitz, his liberal side has been almost totally suppressed in favor of what amounts to little more than Netanyahu apologetics. Seriously, what was the last major cutting edge civil rights article has he written?

[shira]

9. Dershowitz is published in the NYT, Haaretz...

...so obviously it's not about progressive outlets publishing these guys.

Attack the substance & refute any part of the article. Attacking the source is a lame logical fallacy proving nothing.

[Uponthegears]

10. And yet

That was exactly the tactic used in another string to attack the message of the young Muslim woman who stood up for peace and religious tolerance in the face a anti-Muslim protestors.

[shira]

11. You mean the Jew hating Muslim woman who said she only hates Zionist Jews?

Are you serious?

What does that have to do with Maroun or Dershowitz? Did she write an op-ed?

[Uponthegears]

14. What does the personal attack

on the Muslim who carried a message of peace have to do with the utter hypoctisy of criticizing a poster for pointing out the consistent anti-Muslim bent of the athiest Arab who carried a message justifying Netanyahu's deliberate targeting of civilians?

Are you serious?

[shira]

15. Oh.....got it. But see #13 as Israel didn't deliberately target civilians.

They went out of their way to protect them. The proof is in the casualty count, as no other Western nation is more careful than Israel.

That's a fact.

[Uponthegears]

12. As for the substance

It is nothing more than after-the-fact rationalization of the genocidal 10 for 1 and 20 for 1 reprisal operations that began with Black Arrow and Shoshana in the 50s and 60s and continue to this day . . . operations which, btw, have monuments built in their honor.

[shira]

13. Israel ‘exceeded legal standards’ in Gaza conflict, military group tells UN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134106200

The group found that “during Operation Protective Edge last summer… Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard.”

They wrote that “in some cases Israel’s scrupulous adherence to the laws of war cost Israeli soldiers’ and civilians’ lives.”

[Uponthegears]

16. You left this out

The High-Level International Military Group on the Gaza Conflict in 2014 held a fact-finding mission to Israel between May 18-22. It was sponsored by a pro-Israel group, was reportedly given unprecedented access to senior officials, and investigated allegations of war crimes and disproportionality

.

[shira]

17. So? The military experts' credentials were impeccable.

Which military experts can you find who condemned Israel for the Gaza operation?

Name some.

Oh, that's right....all the accusations came from non-military experts - right?

[Little Tich]

18. The Gatestone Institute is a neocon think tank.

Not my cup of tea, really...

[leftynyc]

19. LOL

From the poster who just posted a thread from mondoweiss.

[Little Tich]

20. I prefer the Democratic perspective of Mondoweiss over Republican neocons any day... n/t

[leftynyc]

21. There is NOTHING

Democratic about the perspective at that repulsive site.

[King_David]

22. If you not Jewish or don't care for Jews that site is just dandy and accepted, I guess

But being a Jew myself and a target of those bigots on that site , I guess I could say "it's not my cup of tea" .
Whoever posts that shit is suspect.