Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumWho’s Really Driving “Grassroots” Anti-Israel Activism (BDS) in America?
To the surprise of no one...
By Max Samarov and Philippe Assouline
Israelis have to be bombed it is wrong to maintain the State of Israel. It is an illegitimate creation Taher Herzallah, American Muslims for Palestine National Campus Coordinator
On April 19th Jonathan Schanzer, a former US Treasury Department official, testified in Congress regarding the activities of the anti-Israel boycott movement (BDS) in the United States. In his remarks, he revealed shocking details about how a number of former leaders of organizations with close ties to terrorism, have pivoted to leadership positions within the American BDS campaign. In particular, he established clear links between the terrorist organization Hamas and leaders of American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) a politico-religious lobby group which boasts of being the driving force behind activism for Palestine in the US. But Schanzers testimony revealed only the tip of the iceberg. At the core of this story is not only the shadowy network of religious supremacists behind AMP, but a manipulative campaign to incite hatred among the future leaders of American society.
One of the most prominent faces of BDS in America is Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) a self-titled grassroots, human rights organization with branches at dozens of US campuses. But while it claims to be resisting racism, SJPs 2014 national conference featured a keynote speaker infamous for defending public calls to shoot the Jew! This discrepancy between SJPs stated principles and its conduct is no exception: funded and closely guided by AMP and other political interest groups, SJP systematically exploits the language of social justice to promote a bigoted agenda.
In private SJP denies Israels right to exist, while in public they claim to support justice and peace. SJPs ties to AMP run deep, and SJP itself has admitted that, NGO employees are in powerful positions, within their movement. AMP chairman and Berkeley professor Hatem Bazian co-founded SJP in 2000 and is credited with help[ing] to construct [the] successful narrative SJP has produced over the years (in fact, AMP supplies the infamous wall that SJP displays on campuses). AMP organized the first SJP national conference in 2010, and has funded the groups national conferences ever since. AMPs own conferences include a Campus Track with sessions on How To Start an SJP....
Perhaps unsurprisingly, SJP and AMP both routinely exploit liberal language to push an illiberal agenda. AMP invokes American values in press releases while at the same time hosting Mads Gilbert, who defended Al Qaedas 9/11 attacks, as a keynote speaker. Despite its embrace of sexists and homophobes, AMP had no qualms sponsoring an SJP event at UCLA titled Feminism and Queer Activism for Justice in Palestine. SJP claims to support nonviolence, but invited Islamic Jihad spokesperson Khader Adnan previously caught on film inciting suicide bombings to address its 2012 national conference. While SJP tries to co-opt Armenian student groups, its sponsor AMP recently signed a statement denying the Armenian Genocide. On the one hand, SJP devotes much of its activism to generating solidarity with black Americans. On the other hand it ignores reports that Hamas profits from the human trafficking of black people in the Sinai Desert. Far from condemning Hamas, numerous SJP leaders have publicly supported the racist terrorist group....
more...
https://www.standwithus.com/news/article.asp?id=4670
procon
(15,805 posts)Accusing ones adversaries of ones own sins is an old propaganda trick, but people criticise Israel, and a lot of other offensive state actors, because their governments do bad, inhuman, stupid, evil shit. Israel is not immune to censure and denunciation because their policies of occupation, discrimination and destruction, are the antithesis of civil societies around the world. Israel has justly earned their worldwide condemnation for persisting in the apartheid practice of state sponsored racism and ethnic oppression against the Palestinians..
Looking at the article you linked to, there is no corroboration to validate any of the allegations made by the pro-Israel writers, which seems intent on trying to tar BDS supporters in America as terrorists. The article tries to portray American students who lobby their universities to divest from Israel as terrorists. In their fanaticism, they make a lot of unsourced conjectures and unsubstantiated claimed to manufacture another hackneyed attempt to build a case for their confirmation bias against Americans, and the people of Palestine trapped under Israel's oppressive military occupation.
King_David
(14,851 posts)It is YOU who should just stop the nonsense
BDS org left a severed pigs head in A Jewish kosher supermarket in South Africa.
They tried to ban an American Jew from performing at a reggae festival but had no problems allowing a gay hating bigoted homophobic filth to perform at the same event.
BDS org are Jew hating and quite often Gay hating filth.
The boycott should be against Gay hating hate entities such as the Palestinian statelets, Uganda , Iran and Islamic State.
procon
(15,805 posts)I support BDS. I try to be aware when I shop and avoid, or at least minimize, purchasing products from companies that are tied to groups that are outrageously inhumane, bigoted and discriminatory. The Koch Bros, foreign made textiles, and Israel, are among some of the things on my watch list.
I am neither "Jew hating or Gay hating filth", thank you for showing your true self, and neither are the majority of other people all over the world who condemn Israel's policies of oppression and discrimination. That appalling mindset belies the weaknesses of your position, and I remain completely unsympathetic to your dogma.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Jew hating and Gay hating bigots.
procon
(15,805 posts)than your biased views against anyone who speaks out against Israel's tyrannical policies. I can withstand these petty verbal muggings, but do tell if you come up with anything more erudite to strengthen your argument.
I'm just observing.
I've seen it all before, I have no tolerance for the BDS movement, I no longer have to tolerate or "understand " Gay or Jewish bigots.
In one of the Palestinian statelets recently they just killed a commander of their own because he was Gay.... Nobody should support that medieval backwards shit.
shira
(30,109 posts)....extreme batshit rightwing misogyny, homophobia, Jew hatred, and child abuse under PA/Hamas control.
That's their 1-state wet dream of no more liberal democratic Israel.
Just darkness taking its place and no, you're right, we don't have to take this medieval bigotry shit anymore.
shira
(30,109 posts)Let's see your advocacy with respect to Palestinian gays, women, blacks, christians, and children who are treated like garbage under Arab rule in Gaza, Syria, or Lebanon.
Where is it?
Except that's not happening here. But it's nice to pretend the lying Zionists who disingenuously call out antisemitism are trying to stifle all possible legitimate criticism of Israel, isn't it?
===============
Too bad for you that BDS is getting its ass kicked in American legislatures throughout the nation, Hillary....Bernie calls it antisemitic too. Not to mention the Labour scandal with the Corbynites, etc.
Everyone's starting to call bullshit on BDS bigotry.
procon
(15,805 posts)is due to their idealistic altruism in defense of "gays, women, blacks, christians, and children"? Given the historical evidence to the contrary, your latest defensive posture appears to need a bit more work before it's ready for prime time.
Who is this "everyone" you speak of? I certainly agree that there are public institutions that quite literally can't afford to gainsay their pro-Israel supporters. But here's the thing, for every public venue that reflexively sides with Israel's political injustices, there are hundreds and thousands of actual consumers around the world that are saying "no" with their checkbooks and not buying products, goods and services. That's a real time loss of revenue, and looking at all the ostentatious anti-BDS claims, it is clearly having a detrimental effect of some bottomlines.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sun May 15, 2016, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)
...about injustices against Palestinians. I already knew before you answered you didn't give a crap about Palestinians under Arab rule who are treated like dog shit. It's okay, no BDS'ers give a FF about Palestinians. I haven't found one yet.
So why the bullshit faux concern about injustices done to Palestinians and claiming that's why you support BDS?
As to BDS criticism, Bernie Sanders says BDS is antisemitic. Obama calls anti-zionism antisemitic & since all BDS'ers happen to be anti-zionists...well, there you go and BDS is once again antisemitic.
So please, don't cry victim everytime BDS is called out for being the Jew hating, pro-Hamas regressive movement it is.
procon
(15,805 posts)The OP was about BDS, but when you failed to cobble together any cogent argument, then you switched to this new track, "gay, women, blacks, christians, or children." Maybe you need a separate thread to expound on this new theme, you know, for the enlightenment of all the "Jew-haters" you've discovered here.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Just making you face what you support and show your hypocrisy. I don't blame you for trying to deflect from it - it's pretty fucking ugly.
procon
(15,805 posts)Still, my own counsel will I keep, and in good conscience, I'll continue to stand with the oppressed people of Palestine. As long as Israel's military occupation continues and they defend policies of unjust discrimination, segregation and inequality, BDS is my chosen method of protest.
Looking at the long lists of internationaly known groups and prominent individuals who also support BDS, standing up to an oppressive regimes anywhere and giving a global voice to the weak and powerless, is a worthwhile cause. Its not unusual that appeals to ordinary people around the world who are also engaged in BDS and determined is enforce the economic and cultural isolation of Israel due to its human rights abuses.
It is having the intended impact. And if my tiny efforts can serve in some small part to stop the Israeli theft of Palestinian lands, end the settlements in the occupied West Bank, punitive housing demolitions, another unilateral war on besieged Gaza, the state sponsored indiscriminate killings of thousands of Palestinians, the inhumane chokehold on Palestinian water, among many other things, then I say, let the boycott continue until there is justice for the people of Palestine.
shira
(30,109 posts)Obama and Bernie say BDS is antisemitic.
They get it, why don't you?
procon
(15,805 posts)I don't have any issue with the optics of Obama's expected official government position. You must have realized, surely, that the state's interests are far more complex and wide reaching than anything a single individual might be concerned about. I do not represent the government of the most powerful country in the world, but I am entitled to my own opinions, just as you are, and no approval or confirmation is necessary.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)in protesting against
policies of unjust discrimination, segregation and inequality (your words)
when claiming to support the Palestinians is nobody's problem but your own.
All the people of Gaza had to do when Israel UNILATERALLY pulled out was not resort to violence, everybody was watching and they couldn't even manage that. They played right into bibi's hands.
procon
(15,805 posts)Their ongoing civil rights abuses continue unabated. Its been going on for so long now, it's become tradition, part of the cultural norm. Israel can't stop, they have too much invested, too much money to lose to ever agree to any peace or two states at this point. Military force can't be applied to force change, reasoned condemnation has no effect, moral censure hasn't worked, so that leaves economic justice which is having an effect.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)because every time they do violence follows. Just look at what happened when they pulled out of Gaza. I know it's inconvenient when people point out the FACTS - like that the current Palestinians leaders are thoroughly corrupt (Abbas) or terrorists (hamas) but that doesn't change the FACTS. A peace treat will never be forced on Israel by France (ha ha) or anyone else. When the Palestinians decide they want peace, they'll sit down with Israel and hammer out an agreement. Until then, they will continue to suffer.
procon
(15,805 posts)As you say, Israel can't stop and they have no interest in peace on any terms, and they will continue to make the Palestinian people suffer. I'm glad that's out in the open.
shira
(30,109 posts)....then where the hell were you when Israel was offering it to them in 2000-01 or 2008?
Even Bibi offered to get out of 60% of the W.Bank with provisional borders a few years ago - for nothing in return - and he was rejected.
The rejection is all yours - your side.
You feel sorry for a people whose leadership has failed them many times & blamed Israel instead. If the Palestinians would rather reject having their own state due to wanting Israel gone first, why should you expect anyone to feel sorry for them?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)at putting words in my mouth. Nah - not really a nice try - more a pathetic attempt at shoving words in my mouth. If the Palestinians laid down their arms they'd have peace, if the Israeli's lay down their arms, they'd all be killed. It's certainly not my problem that you can't accept that simple fact. The Israeli's have already PROVEN they will sign peace treaties (Egypt and Jordan)..the Palestinians have only proved they want to kill Israeli's - nothing else.
procon
(15,805 posts)The Palestinians must disarm, you say, but you would let Israel gets to retain all their weapons. That's not a plan for peace, it's a plan for genocide. You say the people of Palestine only want to kill Israelis, but when I googled up the stats, the numbers don't match your claim. That's proof I can actually believe in.
You lost me the second I read the word genocide. Until you learn what that word actually means and use it correctly, we have nothing to discuss You can start by explaining how a group supposedly undergoing genocide keeps ADDING to their population every single year. If you wish to discuss this without hyperbolic bullshit, let me know.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Or just those made in settlements?
shira
(30,109 posts)Here's another article:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/congressional-testimony-highlights-ties-between-hamas-linked-charities-bds/
And here's a related article about a study showing the more BDS on campus, the more antisemitic incidents:
http://www.thetower.org/2088-new-study-shows-campus-bds-activity-strongly-correlates-with-anti-semitic-incidents/
And you'll have to do a lot better than "Zionists lie" to dispute the facts.
procon
(15,805 posts)Sorry, but when you hold up pro-Israel sources to prop up your position, that's cause for significant skepticism when it comes to credibility. Rather like denouncing vegans by pointing to an article on BBQing T-bone steaks put out by the American Beef Industry, yeah?
shira
(30,109 posts)Israeli
(4,289 posts)As The Intercept has regularly reported over the last year, the attempts to criminalize BDS activism not only in Israel but internationally is one of the greatest threats to free speech and assembly rights in the west. The threat has become particularly acute on U.S. college campuses, where official punishments for pro-Palestinian students are now routine. But obviously, the threats faced by Barghouti inside Israel are far more severe.
Regardless of ones views on BDS and the Israeli occupation, anyone who purports to believe in basic conceptions of free speech rights should be appalled by Israeli behavior. I spoke with Barghouti yesterday about this latest Israeli attack on his core civil liberties, the growing extremism in Israel, and broader trends with free speech and BDS activism. I am unnerved, he told me, but Im certainly undeterred. You can listen to the 25-minute discussion on the player below; a full transcript appears below that.
source: https://theintercept.com/2016/05/13/interview-with-bds-advocate-omar-barghouti-banned-by-israel-from-traveling-threatened-with-worse/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Wow - this author is insane. Looking-glass type stuff.
shira
(30,109 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)and it must be excised.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Prior to 1948.... And since 1948 Jews have become strong.... What really irks people is that Jews no longer submit , Jews no longer go like lambs.... Not since 1948.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)are used against Israel, so anti-Israelism is a better term.
I've said before that I can see why Jews aren't favored by progressives in Europe, tho we're not in Europe. American progressives need to realize that the Jews ARE much of the Democratic Party's fundraising and thus ability to compete with Republicans. We American Jews practically underwrite much of the LGBT movement, were the foremost non-blacks to help Civil Rights, and there is something called "gratitude" that ought to be shown.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)It's downright stupid to equate anti-Zionism with being against Israel. I support Israel as a democracy, but I'm totally against all forms of racism. I actually like Israel, it's a nice democratic country, but I think it's necessary to criticize some of its policies.
I buy Israeli products, simply because they're good quality for a good price. But I don't buy settlement products, as I don't support Apartheid.
Criticizing Israel for its racist policies may be anti-Zionism, but it's definitely not "anti-Israelism".
aranthus
(3,386 posts)It's time for true Liberals to back away.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority people who think terrorism is an answer to their problems? No thanks. You see, your attitude is precisely why American sympathies are so much stronger for Israel. One day you'll figure it out...but obviously not today.
shira
(30,109 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I posted to the wrong person and have apologized and made my position clear. Thanks for the heads up.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)above (wasn't meant for you). My point was that supposed liberals continually ignore from and deflect from the disgusting platform that the Palestinians live by - anti gay, anti women, anti minorities - all because they hate Israel.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)We've all done that before.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)The treatment of women in many Islamic countries is horrendous: the are caged in cloth in Afghanistan, not allowed to go about without permission of a male mentor in Saudi Arabia, beaten by the religious police for loose clothing in Indonesia and Iran, beaten in Malaysia for being caught having one beer on a Saturday, the list goes on.
But no, it has to be Israel, for some mysterious reason.
shira
(30,109 posts)...about Israel (deliberately) and that exposes them for the compassion abusing concern trolls they are.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)No Hasbara Kool-Aid for me, please.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I realize the Medea Benjamin flavor tastes better to some folks, but...
Maybe branch out and try other varieties?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Tell you what, how about you find something in the OP that's false and we can compare that to Gideon Levy?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Or do you want me to guess?
shira
(30,109 posts)Alright, what the hell - I'll go with Ben Dror Yemini.
Wanna compare now?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)That flavor is way to bitter for me. Besides, it isn't based on real ingredients.
shira
(30,109 posts)...do the same.
There's actually an article or 2 out there where Yemini challenges levy.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Not sure I can name one point where they disagree - can you?
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Why don't you choose one, and then we can discuss it...
shira
(30,109 posts)Do you think AMP is liberal, against Hamas & terrorism, for peace?
Or is it a POS racist supremacist warmongering movement in your view?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Perhaps if you could provide some info on these groups and their supposed linkage, I would be able to understand your position better.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)... and in every way possible.
This truly is a grassroots movement.
The People are waking up all over the world!
King_David
(14,851 posts)From State and Federal pension funds, by law.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you name one or two?