Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumReport: PM making Germany wary of unconditional support for Israel
Source: Times of Israel
Der Spiegel says growing frustration with Netanyahu has led Berlin to conclude that peace deal is impossible while he is in power
Germany is becoming increasingly frustrated with the policies of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and this can be seen in a shift in Berlin’s attitude toward the Jewish state, according to German magazine Der Spiegel.
In a report in its latest edition, the weekly publication said that Merkel’s camp was “furious” at a leak of confidential consultations between Jerusalem and Berlin in the German capital in February, which subsequently appeared in the free Israel Hayom daily, owned by staunch Netanyahu supporter Sheldon Adelson.
Furthermore, the magazine said, the leaked details of Merkel’s remarks were “twisted” to give the impression that she supported Netanyahu’s position that a two-state solution with the Palestinians was currently unfeasible, whereas the chancellor had actually said that Israeli settlement construction “makes it unlikely that a viable Palestinian state can be established in accordance with plans aimed at a two-state solution.”
(The Times of Israel reported at the time that the German government was displeased with Netanyahu for asserting that Merkel had changed her stance on a two-state solution, and that it dispatched emissaries to Jerusalem clarify Berlin’s position.)
Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/report-germany-less-inclined-to-unconditionally-support-israel/
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Israeli
(4,306 posts)Der Spiegel article reveals that senior German officials are no longer willing to unconditionally support Israel on every matter, as they were ready to do in the past.
Barak Ravid Apr 30, 2016
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said after a meeting with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in Berlin two weeks ago that she "understands why Abbas always wants to turn to the UN Security Council," German magazine Der Spiegel reported in an article in its latest issue under the headline "Growing skepticism in Berlin over friendship with Israel."
The article claims that Merkel is very concerned about the Israeli government's settlement policy rendering the two-state solution impossible. It also states that she and German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier believe that any resolution other than the two-state solution would turn Israel into an apartheid state.
Merkel made the statements in a press conference following her meeting with Abbas on April 19 on the backdrop of the Palestinians' latest initiative in the UN Security Council: A draft resolution condemning Israeli settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem. Abbas met with Merkel in Berlin a few days before he decided to postpone the Palestinian initiative in the Security Council in order not to undermine the French initiative to convene an international peace conference this summer.
The comments flew mostly under the radar at the time, but after Der Spiegel published the remark they sparked an uproar.
The comment is unusual on Merkel's part, who has in recent years made several public statments that any solution to the conflict must be achieved through direct negotiations between the two sides. However, Germany voted for a draft resolution against the settlements in February 2011 in the UN Security Council. The resolution was not accepted because it was vetoed by the United States. Germany is not currently a member of the Security Council, but is considered Israel's closest ally in Europe. Merkel's stance is liable to have influence on other countries on the continent and in the world.
According to Der Spiegel, senior German government officials are no longer willing to unconditionally support Israel on every matter, as they were ready to do in the past. They are of the opinion that the Israeli policy makes the two-state solution impossible, and they are concerned what they describe as an attempt by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "to instrumentalize" Germany's friendship.
"The perception has been growing in the German government that Netanyahu is instrumentalizing our friendship," said Rolf Mützenich, a senior member for the Social Democrats (SPD) - a party which is a partner in Merkel's government and in which Frank-Walter Steinmeier serves as a senior leader. Mützenich said it would be a welcome change if the Foreign Ministry and the Chancellery were to rethink the relationship with Israel.
"Israel's current policies are not contributing to the country remaining Jewish and democratic," said Norbert Röttgen, a member of Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Bundestag, Germany's parliament. "We must express this concern more clearly to Israel."
According to the article, there have been indications of a change in the German Foreign Ministry's approach to diplomatic support of Israel in the EU. In January, for example, when 28 foreign ministers from EU-member states drafted a resolution criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank and their negative influence on the two-state solution, Netanyahu called Steinmeier and asked him to work to softening the draft's language. Steinmeier ignored Netanyahu's request and took no action to change the tone of the resolution.
The report also said that many senior officials in the German Foreign Ministry who are considered staunch supporters of Israel are changing their positions in light of the policies of the Netanyahu government. These include the former German ambassador in Tel Aviv, Andreas Michaelis, who currently serves as Political Director of the Foreign Ministry, and said in internal discussions that he believes that various requests from Netanyahu merited no response.
Der Spiegel also noted that hope had been lost in Merkel's office for the peace process while Netanyahu remains prime minister and that not a single person in the chancellor's office is convinced of Netanyahu's claims that the labeling of settlement products in the EU is a form of boycott against Jews.
The German Foreign Ministry has also taken note of comments over the last few years from Israeli government ministers opposing the establishment of a Palestinian state, according to the Der Spiegel report. In light of the fact that a majority of Israeli ministers oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state, the German Foreign ministry has begun running simulations considering alternatives to the establishment of a Palestinian state and the results have not been optimistic.
In January, the Steinmeier's office considered having the foreign minister give a speech in which he would have spoken about the option of turning Israel into a bi-national state.
Before the speech, which was due to be made at The Academy of Sciences and Literature, Mainz, a draft was prepared for a speech that didn't place exclusive blame on Israel for the failure of the peace process, but did include questions the like of which the German foreign minister had never mentioned in public. Many in Steinmeier's close circle approved of the draft, but Israel supporters in his office opposed it and their position prevailed. In the end, Steinmeier's chief of staff removed the controversial paragraph from the speech.
Source : http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.717069
Mosby
(17,520 posts)Without preconditions to discuss a permanent resolution.
Do you think he is lying?
And if he is why don't the Palestinians call him on his lie?
I'll tell you why, it's because as much as people might not trust a right wing politician like Bibi, the Palestinians are in a whole different right wing universe, they are Antisemitic, Homophobic, misogynistic, reject liberal pluralism, egalitarianism and most of all reject the very existence of Israel.
That's why they can't even call bibi's "bluff", they are so far right they can't even acknowledge the connection Jews have to their ancestral homeland in Israel, Judea and Samaria.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Supported by extreme left wing ( especially in Europe but you see some of it even here on DU ) with Antisemitic tendencies.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)Last edited Mon May 2, 2016, 08:41 AM - Edit history (5)
"....the Palestinians ...........they are Antisemitic, Homophobic, misogynistic, reject liberal pluralism, egalitarianism...."By categorising all Palestinians like that, you are doing exactly what anti-Semites do when they criticise 'the Jews' as callous, land-grabbers, child- klllers, etc
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)According to this Pew poll, 89% of Palestinians support sharia law - a law that itself is homophobic, misogynistic and rejects liberal pluralism and sucks for women.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
Read that entire poll, the numbers will make any liberal nauseous. That doesn't make me an Islamophobe - just someone who knows how to read.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)Why are you quoting a Pew poll which says almost nothing about Palestinians?.....Please tell me where you got your " 89% of Palestinians support Sharia law" from.
Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing (A racist attitude much worse than Sharia Law):
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html
So if an anti-Semite writes that "The Jews believe in ethnic cleaning" that would be OK?....
Perhaps you think there is a percentage at which it becomes acceptable to racially denigrate Jews, Palestinians or any other people?.....
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I know it's a long article and poll but the numbers for the Palestinian territories and sharia law are right on top - 2 short paragraphs and then the chart. IT'S RIGHT THERE. And now you want to change the subject (while pretending the numbers AREN'T RIGHT THERE). How pathetically predictable.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That I'm right? No commentary? Just a change of subject and more deflection? Imagine my surprise.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Further down in that same poll we have a fucking boatload of Muslims who think you should be killed for leaving Islam - in the Middle East alone it's 56% - a larger percentage than the Israeli Jews that are tired of having to worry about getting on a bus. 40% of Palestinians think that suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified and 87% think women should obey their husbands. 56% think you should be KILLED for leaving Islam.
Somehow I'm not too upset about a less than half poll that thinks living with the Palestinians and their suicide bombings have gotten very tiresome. Also tired of people claiming wanting to move the Palestinians is the same as wanting to kill them which is actually what ethnic cleansing is but whatever - you can use whatever words you choose. I know where my outrage belongs.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You just didn't like my answer. That's entirely your problem. I know where my outrage belongs. But as totally expected, nothing to say about the Pew poll - pathetically predictable.
kayecy
(1,417 posts)By categorising all Palestinians like that, you are doing exactly what anti-Semites do when they criticise 'the Jews' as callous, land-grabbers, child- klllers, etc
Mosby
(17,520 posts)Last edited Mon May 2, 2016, 05:54 PM - Edit history (1)
leftynyc posted one of them, I'm not going to go dig them all up but they have been remarkably consistent over the years which supports the survey's validity. The one she posted is from 2013.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Here are some of the findings:
48% of Palestinians support polygamy (pg 11) Misogyny
89% of Palestinians support Sharia law (pg. 15) Liberal Pluralism
89% of Palestinians think Homosexuality is morally wrong (pg. 81) Homophobia
87% of Palestinians think that women should obey their husbands (pg. 93) Misogyny
40% of Palestinians think suicide bombing is often/sometimes justified (pg. 29) ??
76% of Palestinians support penalties such as whipping or cutting off the hands of thieves (pg. 52)
84% of Palestinians support stoning for adultery (pg. 54) Misogyny
66% of Palestinians support the death penalty for leaving Islam (pg. 55) Democracy, egalitarianism
40% of Palestinians support a strong leader over democracy (pg. 60) democracy
72% of Palestinians think that religious leaders should have a say in politics (pg. 64)
89% of Palestinians think that Islam is the only path to salvation (pg. 101) Religious bigotry, supremacism
And finally:
97% of Palestinians are Antisemites: http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/02/04/chapter-3-views-of-religious-groups/
So you see, I hope, that I'm just stating research results, these are the Palestinians actual opinions not mine. The stuff you posted about Jews are just Antisemitic slurs.
eta: Please note that these odious positions are often expressed by far right wingers, not anyone on the left, especially in regards to the misogyny, homophobia and the role of religion in politics and society.
Eugene
(62,686 posts)Source: Reuters
German official denies report on foreign policy shift on Israel
A German government official denied on Sunday a magazine report which said Berlin might end its unconditional support for Israel due to Chancellor Angela Merkel's increasing frustration with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's policies.
Germany has for decades felt duty bound to support Israel because of the murder of six million Jews by the Nazis in the Holocaust.
But Der Spiegel reported that senior government officials are concerned that Netanyahu is exploiting Germany's friendship for his own political ends and believe Berlin should adopt a more critical stance.
Asked to comment on the report, a government official told Reuters: "The guidelines of German Middle East policy have not changed."
A spokeswoman for Merkel declined to comment and referred to the government's regular news conference on Monday.
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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-israel-germany-idUSKCN0XS1FY
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Israeli
(4,306 posts)Barak Ravid May 01, 2016
The extensive report in the highly-regarded German news weekly Der Spiegel on the German government’s growing skepticism over relations with Israel was an unpleasant reminder of the erosion of Israel’s standing with one of its most important allies. This erosion is coming at a time when the German government is headed by Chancellor Angela Merkel, one of the best friends that Israel has ever had.
Most reports of this kind do not appear by happenstance. It can be assumed that most of the information and quotes provided for the most recent story to two reporters who are considered senior journalists at the prestigious weekly were given with the permission and authority of senior officials in Merkel’s office and from the German Foreign Ministry. The statements for direct quotation and attribution from two of the most senior members of parliament from Merkel’s party and from the party of German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier are much more powerful evidence of this.
Against this backdrop, the response from “senior diplomatic officials in Jerusalem” was particularly ridiculous, even Orwellian. As if day is night and night is day. As if Israelis were aliens who had just landed from another planet and had not been here over the past seven years.
Ties with Germany are outstanding, the response said. The relationship between Merkel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is close. What is there to say? Life is like a bowl of cherries, or why even cherries? Like German custard cake, cremeschnitte.
The new consideration in the German government regarding the unconditional alliance with Israel was dismissed in Jerusalem as an effort by her opponents to flay Merkel. The Israeli reaction deemed the claims that Netanyahu was exploiting Germany’s friendship to maintain the West Bank settlement enterprise as domestic German politics. At least these Israelis didn’t try to find a creative explanation to comments that Merkel made publicly and in front of the camera that she understands why Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas wants to turn to the United Nations Security Council to obtain a condemnation of construction activity in the settlements.
The Der Spiegel report is full of fascinating details, such as Steinmeier’s refusal to help Netanyahu head off a condemnation of the settlements by the European Union or the voices in the German Foreign Ministry calling for a reassessment of relations with Israel. As interesting as each snippet of information is, they are sort-of like the trees. What is important is the forest. The forest is the fierce crisis of confidence between Merkel and Netanyahu. A cold analysis by the chancellor with respect to everything related to a two-state solution of the conflict with the Palestinians is that there is nothing to talk about and no one to talk with in Jerusalem.
Almost every sentence in the article reminds one of Israel’s situation concerning another major ally. The importance of the diplomatic and defense aid from Germany for Israel is second only to that of the United States. If we examine the erosion in relations between Israel and Germany since 2009 through today, the process is very similar to what has occurred between Israel and the U.S. administration. President Barack Obama would agreed with each and every one of Merkel’s claims against Netanyahu.
But all this is nothing new. After all, Merkel did not need to read what Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz or Science, Technology and Space Minister Ofir Akunis said against a Palestinian state over the past year in order to understand that Netanyahu is not really interested in advancing the peace process. Quite a number of articles have been published about her feelings toward Netanyahu in the past, a large number of them in this newspaper. So the question that must be asked is: Why now? What interest does the publication of the article serve at this moment?
Quite a number of senior Israeli diplomats have racked their brains over the past few days in an attempt to answer this question. None of them have a clear answer. One of the main opinions is that the article was intended to be part of the preparations for a broader diplomatic move. Such a move could be German support for the French peace initiative or the report to be released in a few weeks by the Quartet – the U.S., Russia, EU and UN – concerning the freeze in the peace process, or the encouragement of an American move on the Israel-Palestine issue that will become part of Obama’s legacy.
On the eve of the last day of the Passover holiday last week, Israel released its official response to the French initiative to hold an international peace conference. The response was released in preparation for the meeting of some 30 foreign ministers in Paris on May 30. Israel and the Palestinians will not participate at this conference. It will serve as preparation for the larger conference France wants to hold before the end of the year in order to restart the peace process.
The Israeli response included a series of diplomatic clichés. It was as close as possible to saying no without actually saying no. But in translation into normal language it was clear that Israel was rejecting the initiative. In comparison, the Palestinians have adopted the initiative with open arms.
It is hard to believe that someone in Paris of other major capitals was surprised by the response from Jerusalem. In recent years, Netanyahu has taken care to do everything to make it easier for the international community to cast him as a naysayer, and to turn Abbas – a rather serious rejectionist in his own right – into someone who cares. None of this has helped Israel’s foreign relations and international standing, but it worked extremely well in the Israeli elections – so why stop now?
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.717185