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Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumFor Most Israelis, Palestinian Lives Don't Matter
A 24-year-old Palestinian and her teenage brother were shot and killed by Israeli troops after allegedly trying to stab Border Police officers. The polices version of the events doesnt add up, but nobody in Israel, including the media, feels the need to ask questions.By Mairav Zonszein |Published April 30, 2016
The facts are still unclear, in fact very unclear: the exact number of knives found, the number of bullets shot, the number of meters distance, why exactly they were there. But even if we accept Israel Polices highly terse account of the events, we are still left with a bottom line: Two Palestinians, Maram Salih Hassan Abu Ismail, 24, and her younger brother Ibrahim Salah Taha, 16, were shot and killed on the spot by Israeli forces at the Qalandiya checkpoint on Wednesday, while posing no immediate threat to anyone. Even if we accept the police version that the woman attempted to stab them, there is still no justification for shooting the teenager, who the police themselves claim was not brandishing a weapon or close enough to present a threat.
We also know that Israeli mainstream media barely covered the story, didnt send any reporters to gather eyewitness testimonies and didnt speak to any Palestinians. A Haaretz report mentions that Palestinians claim that Israeli forces fired numerous bullets at the two and prevented medics from treating them. Of course, whether and when medics were able to treat the victims shouldnt be a matter of Palestinian claims. There are plenty of cameras at what is the busiest checkpoint in the West Bank, there is video footage, probably from several angles. The footage should clarify this, and other aspects that are not a matter of opinion. But Israel Police has not yet released any footage. According to a report in Local Call, police have in the past been quick to release video footage when it corroborates their version of the events.
According to Israel Police spokesperson Luba al-Samri, two suspects a woman and a youth approached the vehicular path (instead of the pedestrian path) leading through the military checkpoint and walked towards Border Police officers stationed there, the woman with her hand in her bag and the youth with his hands behind his back. Officers ordered them to halt several times and they began to turn back before the woman threw a knife at an officer. Police and security guards then shot the two, killing them both. The police didnt specify this but most reports cite that the siblings were 20 meters away from the forces, and they were positioned inside a cement sentry box.
These events didnt even make it into the evening news in Israel Wednesday night. Except for Joint List MK Dov Khenin, no Israeli politician has expressed dismay or called on the police to release the footage or open an investigation. There hasnt been any questioning of what the hell happened there. Rather, there has been deafening silence. Its almost as if it didnt happen.
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http://972mag.com/for-most-israelis-palestinian-lives-simply-dont-matter/118945/
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For Most Israelis, Palestinian Lives Don't Matter (Original Post)
Purveyor
Apr 2016
OP
As I said , this post of yours actually disqualifies you from any rational discussion on this topic
King_David
Apr 2016
#1
Rational discussion on this topic and King David does not equate to begin with... eom
Purveyor
Apr 2016
#3
King_David
(14,851 posts)1. As I said , this post of yours actually disqualifies you from any rational discussion on this topic
FBaggins
(27,538 posts)2. So what you're saying is...
To the pro-Hamas crowd... Jewish lives don't matter?
Can't say I'm shocked.
King_David
(14,851 posts)4. Well at that link , the killing of Jews seemed to be encouraged...
You read the post , talking about killing Jews with knives and the poster says :"Godspeed". ?
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)3. Rational discussion on this topic and King David does not equate to begin with... eom
RepubliCON-Watch
(559 posts)6. K & R
Great read!
Israeli
(4,286 posts)7. Israel Police Refuse to Release Video of Thwarted West Bank Stabbing Attack
Eyewitness accounts by Palestinians contradict police's claim that Maram Abu Ismayil, 23, and her brother Ibrahim Salah Tahah, 16, refused their request to stop and posed a threat to officers.
Nir Hasson and Jack Khoury Apr 30, 2016
The police are refusing to make public the video showing the attempted knife attack by a brother and sister in which the pair were shot dead at the Qalandiyah checkpoint in north Jerusalem on Wednesday.
According to the police, the two, Maram Abu Ismayil, 23, and her brother Ibrahim Salah Tahah, 16, were acting suspiciously and did not heed the police calls to stop, with Abu Ismayil allegedly pulling out a knife and throwing it at officers. Later two knives were also found on Tahahs body. According to Palestinian witnesses, however, the siblings were far away from the police, were not a threat, and did not understand the calls for them in Hebrew to stop.
The Jerusalem Police said the video, if there was one, could not be made public because the incident was under investigation. However Haaretz checked and found that in a number of cases in the past the Police Spokesmans Office had itself made public videos of similar incidences, even adding captions to explain what was happening and justifying the police actions.
According to the police, Wednesdays incident at the Qalandiyah checkpoint began when the police noticed Abu Ismayil and Tahah walking toward to crossing point for vehicles where pedestrians are not allowed. Abu Ismayil continued walking with her hand in her back, and Tahah did so with his hand behind his back.
Ignoring orders to stop, when they were very close to the security barricade before the checkpoint, police said Abu Ismayil pulled a knife and threw it at a policeman, who was uninjured. Police and security guards then opened fire and killed them both. The police released photos of the three knives, the one Abu Ismayil threw and the two found on her brothers body, one of which was a switchblade.
The police version of events does not conform to that of Palestinian eye witnesses. Ahmed, a bus driver, told the Palestinian news agency Maan that the policeman fired at Abu Ismayil from a distance of 20 meters and the pair did not constitute a threat when they were shot. The Palestinians also said first aid teams at the scene were not allowed to approach the two.
Photos taken at the scene show the two lying in the middle of the road, some distance from the checkpoint where police and security guards usually do not stand. People very familiar with the checkpoint said the point where the siblings fell after being shot was about 15 meters from the security blockade before the checkpoint.
MK Dov Khenin (Joint Arab List) demanded Thursday that Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon and Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan launch an immediate investigation and release the videos the army has.
Khenin said that as the pair walked toward the vehicle lane, they did not understand the orders in Hebrew to stop, and Tahah was holding his sisters hand to lead her to the correct lane when they were shot, with the police about 20 meters away behind concrete blocks.
After Abu Ismayil was shot, her brother knelt to help her and then he was shot as well, Khenin said eye-witnesses had reported, adding that the police were in no danger whatsoever.
Khenin called on the department in the Justice Ministry that investigates police misconduct to launch an investigation and to release the videos and any other material that exists from the scene. We cannot accept that people are shot to death in broad daylight based on only a suspicion, he said.
MK Ahmad Tibi (Joint Arab List) demanded that Attorney General Avichai Mendelblit see that the video was released and that an investigation into the siblings death be opened immediately.
The Jerusalem Police rejected Khenins allegations and said that he would receive a response through the usual channels from the public security minister.
The police said that even in cases where there is no doubt about the police conduct they do not release videos from security cameras. Such videos released in the past were not taken by police cameras and the police had no control over them, the police said.
However, Haaretz found that over the past few months the police had released some videos for example, in the case of an attack perpetrated by two Palestinian teens in the north Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Zeev. But in cases in which there were questions about the conduct of police personnel or soldiers, the police or the army chose not to release footage from security cameras.
A relative of one of the two siblings said that Abu Ismayil was on her way to Jerusalem for medical treatment. The relative added that this was the first time she had received a permit to cross the checkpoint and her family is sure she approached the vehicle lane by mistake and that her brother was shot while trying to help her after she was shot.
Abu Ismayil has two daughters, Sara, 6 and Rimas, 4. The family lives in a small village southwest of Jerusalem. Her mother, who was caring for the two girls, said Abu Ismayil had been having pains in her legs. She had been given a permit to go to Makassed Hospital in East Jerusalem for tests and her brother was accompanying her.
The family said that they were planning the wedding of another brother, Hassan, in August that that Abu Ismayil was very happy about the approaching event. They said she had gone with her brother to buy a suit and had not shown any signs of distress over the past month. They said they had not received any proof that Abu Ismayil and Tahah had been planning a stabbing attack.
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.717110
Nir Hasson and Jack Khoury Apr 30, 2016
The police are refusing to make public the video showing the attempted knife attack by a brother and sister in which the pair were shot dead at the Qalandiyah checkpoint in north Jerusalem on Wednesday.
According to the police, the two, Maram Abu Ismayil, 23, and her brother Ibrahim Salah Tahah, 16, were acting suspiciously and did not heed the police calls to stop, with Abu Ismayil allegedly pulling out a knife and throwing it at officers. Later two knives were also found on Tahahs body. According to Palestinian witnesses, however, the siblings were far away from the police, were not a threat, and did not understand the calls for them in Hebrew to stop.
The Jerusalem Police said the video, if there was one, could not be made public because the incident was under investigation. However Haaretz checked and found that in a number of cases in the past the Police Spokesmans Office had itself made public videos of similar incidences, even adding captions to explain what was happening and justifying the police actions.
According to the police, Wednesdays incident at the Qalandiyah checkpoint began when the police noticed Abu Ismayil and Tahah walking toward to crossing point for vehicles where pedestrians are not allowed. Abu Ismayil continued walking with her hand in her back, and Tahah did so with his hand behind his back.
Ignoring orders to stop, when they were very close to the security barricade before the checkpoint, police said Abu Ismayil pulled a knife and threw it at a policeman, who was uninjured. Police and security guards then opened fire and killed them both. The police released photos of the three knives, the one Abu Ismayil threw and the two found on her brothers body, one of which was a switchblade.
The police version of events does not conform to that of Palestinian eye witnesses. Ahmed, a bus driver, told the Palestinian news agency Maan that the policeman fired at Abu Ismayil from a distance of 20 meters and the pair did not constitute a threat when they were shot. The Palestinians also said first aid teams at the scene were not allowed to approach the two.
Photos taken at the scene show the two lying in the middle of the road, some distance from the checkpoint where police and security guards usually do not stand. People very familiar with the checkpoint said the point where the siblings fell after being shot was about 15 meters from the security blockade before the checkpoint.
MK Dov Khenin (Joint Arab List) demanded Thursday that Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon and Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan launch an immediate investigation and release the videos the army has.
Khenin said that as the pair walked toward the vehicle lane, they did not understand the orders in Hebrew to stop, and Tahah was holding his sisters hand to lead her to the correct lane when they were shot, with the police about 20 meters away behind concrete blocks.
After Abu Ismayil was shot, her brother knelt to help her and then he was shot as well, Khenin said eye-witnesses had reported, adding that the police were in no danger whatsoever.
Khenin called on the department in the Justice Ministry that investigates police misconduct to launch an investigation and to release the videos and any other material that exists from the scene. We cannot accept that people are shot to death in broad daylight based on only a suspicion, he said.
MK Ahmad Tibi (Joint Arab List) demanded that Attorney General Avichai Mendelblit see that the video was released and that an investigation into the siblings death be opened immediately.
The Jerusalem Police rejected Khenins allegations and said that he would receive a response through the usual channels from the public security minister.
The police said that even in cases where there is no doubt about the police conduct they do not release videos from security cameras. Such videos released in the past were not taken by police cameras and the police had no control over them, the police said.
However, Haaretz found that over the past few months the police had released some videos for example, in the case of an attack perpetrated by two Palestinian teens in the north Jerusalem neighborhood of Pisgat Zeev. But in cases in which there were questions about the conduct of police personnel or soldiers, the police or the army chose not to release footage from security cameras.
A relative of one of the two siblings said that Abu Ismayil was on her way to Jerusalem for medical treatment. The relative added that this was the first time she had received a permit to cross the checkpoint and her family is sure she approached the vehicle lane by mistake and that her brother was shot while trying to help her after she was shot.
Abu Ismayil has two daughters, Sara, 6 and Rimas, 4. The family lives in a small village southwest of Jerusalem. Her mother, who was caring for the two girls, said Abu Ismayil had been having pains in her legs. She had been given a permit to go to Makassed Hospital in East Jerusalem for tests and her brother was accompanying her.
The family said that they were planning the wedding of another brother, Hassan, in August that that Abu Ismayil was very happy about the approaching event. They said she had gone with her brother to buy a suit and had not shown any signs of distress over the past month. They said they had not received any proof that Abu Ismayil and Tahah had been planning a stabbing attack.
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.717110
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)8. The official story seems a bit fishy to me.
I want to see a thorough investigation into the matter, but I'm cautiously pessimistic about it ever happening.
Israeli
(4,286 posts)9. Israel Investigating Suspected Violations in Shooting of Palestinian Siblings at Qalandiyah
Court imposes a gag order on the investigation of the killing last week of a 23-year-old Palestinian woman and her 16-year-old brother at Qalandiyah checkpoint.
Suspicions are being investigated that a shooting at the Qalandiyah West Bank checkpoint north of Jerusalem in which a 23-year-old Palestinian woman, Maram Abu Ismail, and her 16-year-old brother, Ibrahim Taha, were killed last week was carried out in violation of regulations.
On Thursday evening, Jerusalem Magistrate's Court Judge Joya Skappa-Shapiro imposed a gag order on the details of the investigation, including the names of the suspects in the shooting "to preserve the propriety of the investigation and to prevent harm to public safety," as the judge described it.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.718192
Suspicions are being investigated that a shooting at the Qalandiyah West Bank checkpoint north of Jerusalem in which a 23-year-old Palestinian woman, Maram Abu Ismail, and her 16-year-old brother, Ibrahim Taha, were killed last week was carried out in violation of regulations.
On Thursday evening, Jerusalem Magistrate's Court Judge Joya Skappa-Shapiro imposed a gag order on the details of the investigation, including the names of the suspects in the shooting "to preserve the propriety of the investigation and to prevent harm to public safety," as the judge described it.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.718192
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)10. Good. n/t