Netanyahu calls for ‘direct, bilateral negotiations’ with Palestinians

[Mosby]

JERUSALEM (JTA) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel is ready to start “direct, bilateral negotiations” with the Palestinians.

The invitation, which Netanyahu has repeatedly extended, was included in a statement issued Thursday by the Prime Minister’s Office under the heading “Israel’s Response to the French Initiative.”

The French government announced last week that it will convene a summit of foreign ministers in Paris next month as a start to renewing the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians. The meeting on May 30 will not include representatives of Israel and the Palestinians.

The summit is set to be the run-up to an international peace conference to be held in the French capital this summer that would include Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

“Israel adheres to its position that the best way to resolve the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is direct, bilateral negotiations,” the statement issued Thursday said. “Israel is ready to begin them immediately without preconditions. Any other diplomatic initiative distances the Palestinians from direct negotiations.”

http://www.jta.org/2016/04/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/netanyahu-calls-for-direct-bilateral-negotiations-with-palestinians

[kayecy]

1. Sounds reasonable but....

Sounds reasonable but Israel has all the cards........and facts on the ground.

More reasonable would be to start with Israel's 1948 Armistice lines and negotiate from there.

[Mosby]

2. there is no rule in negotiations

That the two sides must be equal somehow, your not the first person to bring it up but it's a really odd idea IMO. The Israelis deserve their superior negotiating position, they earned it, the Palestinians not so much, because you don't build first world street cred by hijacking airplanes, murdering athletes, blowing up buses and slitting kids throats.

[leftynyc]

3. Well, that's what happens

when you start wars and lose - you lose the high ground and any hope of an equal position. The Palestinians are in this mess because of their own actions and those of their leaders. They should have taken the state offered to them in 1948. Losers who start wars don't get infinite do-overs.

[oberliner]

24. Those lines put Jordan in charge of the West Bank and Egypt in charge of Gaza

Bear in mind that agreement was signed by Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria.

Seems more logical to begin with the borders that were established between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan when peace treaties were signed between those countries in in 1979 and 1994.

[Israeli]

30. :)..........

Erasing the Green Line

And yet the case of Hiran sets a precedent. Three of the aforementioned cases — Sansana, Livne, and Nirit — are “on the fence.” In these cases the annexation is partial, since sections of the towns lie beyond the Green Line. Hiran, on the other hand, is several kilometers deep into Israel. Furthermore, the area of Umm al-Hiran and Atir are exceptional in that they seemingly do not belong to any regional council. The Hura Local Council is closest, and the area of Hiran will eventually belong to Metar Local Council.

According to research conducted by the Interior Ministry, “the legislation applicable to councils in Judea and Samaria is different from other councils, and the connection between the two, despite appearing attractive, could potentially lead to fundamental problems in the functioning of these councils.” To the best of our knowledge, not a single town in Israeli territory is managed by a group located in the West Bank.

In reality, and right under our noses, the Green Line continues to be erased. The knowledge the settlers have gained in the occupied territories is now being brought over to Israel. The condescension, bending of rules, turning a blind eye from the local residents, and the Judaization of territory — all these are slowly creeping beyond the Green Line, which is “supposed” to mark a separation between a venerated democracy and an occupying, law-breaking regime.

Source : http://972mag.com/why-is-a-settler-council-reaching-across-the-green-line/111700/

See also ....

Walking the Green Line
http://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/2015/greenLine/index.html

and

Drawing a line at the Green Line
http://peacenow.org.il/eng/content/drawing-line-green-line

[oberliner]

35. I don't understand your response

I am just pointing out that in 1949, the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza was occupied by Egypt.

[Israeli]

36. Really oberliner......

.......I wasnt born yesterday

The Green Line or (pre-)1967 borders or 1949 Armistice borders refers to the demarcation lines set out in the 1949 Armistice Agreements between the armies of Israel and those of its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel)

Aims of Gush Shalom

Putting an end to the occupation,

Accepting the right of the Palestinian people to establish an independent and sovereign State of Palestine in all the territories occupied by Israel in 1967[*],

Reinstating the pre-1967 "Green Line" as the border between the State of Israel and the State of Palestine (with possible minor exchanges of territories agreed between the parties); the border will be open for the free movement of people and goods, subject to mutual agreement.

Establishing Jerusalem as the capital of the two states, with East Jerusalem (including the Haram al-Sharif) serving as the capital of Palestine and West Jerusalem (including the Western Wall) serving as the capital of Israel. The city is to be united on the physical and municipal level, based on mutual agreement.

Recognizing in principle the Right of Return of the Palestinian refugees, allowing each refugee to choose freely between compensation and repatriation to Palestine and Israel, and fixing by mutual agreement the number of refugees who will be able to return to Israel in annual quotas, without undermining the foundations of Israel.

Safeguarding the security of both Israel and Palestine by mutual agreement and guarantees.
Striving for overall peace between Israel and all Arab countries and the creation of a regional union.

[*] This refers specifically to all the parts of former Mandatory Palestine occupied by the Israeli army in 1967 - not to parts of Syria or Egypt.

Source: http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/about/aims/

[Little Tich]

4. Netanyahu is afraid that the French peace drive could be successful. n/t

[Mosby]

5. Yeah

[Little Tich]

6. Perhaps it's time for a new approach.

Previous negotiations have largely consisted of the US and Israel holding hands while trying to wring concessions out of the Palestinian side. This approach hasn't led to a two-state solution nor peace.

Perhaps it's time to find out what the minimum requirements are for a Palestinian state and if it's acceptable or even doable for both sides. I think the French peace push can at least do that, in spite of Netanyahu's intrepid resistance.

[leftynyc]

7. Spare me

When have the Palestinians been asked to give up anything? Not even once. It's ALWAYS Israel that's asked to give concessions. All that's ever been asked of the Palestinians is to give up violence - and they can't manage to even do that. They just want continuous do-overs so they can get what they were offered in 1948 until they can figure out how to destroy Israel. I wouldn't trust the French either if I were in Israeli shoes.

[Israeli]

8. "When have the Palestinians been asked to give up anything? Not even once."

Answer : ......

A Flash Presentation of Barak's "Generous Offers"

This will help you know the facts and thereby break the Myth.

Attached files:
• Click here to watch
Flash file, 38.1 KB

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/downloads/baraks_offers/barak_eng.swf

[leftynyc]

9. Can't watch this now but

will over the weekend. I'm sure I'll find they've been asked to do nothing other than not kill people.

[Israeli]

14. Sure leftynyc, sure ....

[leftynyc]

16. Feel free to provide a list

of the (imaginary) things the Palestinians have been asked to give up.

[Israeli]

17. Did already ......

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/downloads/baraks_offers/barak_eng.swf

You want more ????
Its not a problem for me leftynyc......just a matter of time , but I will if you insist .

[leftynyc]

19. I am so seriously not

impressed with being asked to give up land they LOST in a war they started. I've made my position on that VERY clear. I still remember what happened with Gaza - the Israeli's forced their own to abandon their homes and what did they get in return? Violence, rockets, more terrorism.

[Israeli]

21. I know leftynyc......

...." VERY clear. " .

I remember too .......although I would not use the term " their own " .

ref : http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/07/09/the-war-of-the-colors-in-israel/

Those who fly the orange ribbon know this perfectly well. They swear to “paint the country orange” and aim to change its way of life from the bottom up. As they see it, the laws of the Knesset are invalid if they conflict with religious law (the Halakha), as interpreted by the “nationalist Zionist” rabbis, a nationalist-messianic faction with a fascist fringe. Government decisions are null and void if they are opposed to the will of God. And God, as is well known, speaks through the mouths of the settlers’ leaders. (One can only say: God help God, if He needs spokesmen like these!)

Those who fly the blue know – some clearly, some vaguely – that they are struggling for a different vision of Israel. Some have a thought-out conception of a democratic, liberal and secular Israel, living at peace with the Arab world. Others have a more general vision of a sane and decent Israel, where the majority decides through the Knesset. Either way, the difference between blue and orange is striking and unmistakable.

The importance of this is more than symbolic. More and more people are becoming convinced that the current struggle is essentially one between the State of Israel and the “State of the Settlers” – a democratic state on the one side, a nationalist-messianic state on the other. That is an important conception, which may have far-reaching implications for the future. It is the start of the real separation – that between the State of Israel and the settlers.

[leftynyc]

49. Meanwhile

the IDF removed them from Gaza as a show of good will. And what did they get for it? Violence, rockets, terrorism. And you think the terrorists should be rewarded for that. Not me. It's time for them to remember that losers don't get to set terms.

[Israeli]

50. " the IDF removed them from Gaza as a show of good will. And what did they get for it? "

They got nothing but abuse , insults and violence leftynyc.....almost came to a civil war , not for the first time ....first time was when they assassinated Rabin .

They are still at it BTW :

ref : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4797940,00.html

[leftynyc]

52. You're proving my point

(probably unwittingly) - it shows the government is not afraid to do something unpopular to further some hope of a peaceful resolution to the I/P issue. The Palestinian leadership has never done anything remotely similar. They've never offered ANYTHING.

[Israeli]

54. This government is made up of all those that stood against the disengagement leftynyc....

....its a pro settler government ....led by Bibi who voted against Sharon .

[leftynyc]

55. So what?

Does that negate what happened in Gaza? Perhaps that's how a pro settler government got elected in the first place. They pulled their own out and got NOTHING in return but violence. If they hadn't continued with the violence, bibi would never have gotten elected.

[Israeli]

60. So everything ....

Quote what I was replying to :

" it shows the government is not afraid to do something unpopular to further some hope of a peaceful resolution to the I/P issue. "

This government is not interested in doing anything " to further some hope of a peaceful resolution to the I/P issue. " ...........nada , zilch.

I suggest you read up on the creation of the Kadima party.

see : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadima

[leftynyc]

64. I know all about Kadima

You still haven't addressed my post. Israel has ALREADY shown a willingness to do the unpopular, like pulling their own out of Gaza and as you pointed out, that was VERY unpopular, and they got nothing but violence in return. Why should they do anything else? When are the Palestinians going to do ANYTHING that proves they want peace? When is anyone like yourself going to even ask them to?

[Israeli]

67. Again with " their own " .....

..........they should not have been there in the first place leftynyc.

They should not be in the Wild West Bank either .....
Pull them out ...or pull out the army ....then you will see .

Orit Strock and Ayelet Shaked are not my sister leftynyc.......and Yigal Amir is not my brother .

ref : http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134127876

[leftynyc]

68. Then I'll see.....what?

They didn't have Gaza or the West Bank until 1967 (which, let's remember, they got because of a war Israel won - and let's also remember, it was occupied at the time by Jordan and Egypt) Did that bring peace? Why are you pretending that at any time in the last 70 years that the Palestinians have done anything...ANYTHING....to prove they want peace? You want Israel to forget all the violence, forget all the history and give them what they went to war over in 1947. The Palestinians and their pals keep attacking, keep financing terrorism and you think Israel should ignore all that. Even worse, you want them to reward it.

[Israeli]

70. Then you will see a chance for a Two State Solution ....

.....perhaps you dont want that leftynyc.......but its the only way it will be possible .

Or the alternative is a One State Solution ....annexation ....which is exactly what Orit Strock and Ayelet Shaked and Yigal Amir and this government want .

[shira]

72. So triggering a war with a Hamas takeover of the W.Bank = Chance for 2 states in your view.

That's fascinating.

And you wonder why no one sane buys into idiotic Hamasbara.

How's about the Palestinians demonstrate they want peace, are held to it, and THEN there are 2 states?

Why are you against peace first?

[leftynyc]

75. There must be a two state solution

It's the only answer. All I'm asking is that you (and others) not pretend there is only one side who is the victim here. And to not forget history - or ask the Israelis to forget. Right wing governments get elected when people are afraid - we've seen it right here in the US and are seeing it in Europe now. Bibi got elected because people saw what happened in Gaza. Violence, rockets and the election of a terrorist organization.

[Little Tich]

12. I liked it. n/t

[Little Tich]

10. It depends where the baseline is, so to speak.

The way I see it, it's about two peoples in one ancestral homeland, and there's no reason for not sharing it equally. Currently, it seems as if Israel wants more than half, and I can't see how that can be defined as Israeli concessions.

You seem to be one of the 53% of Democratic supporters who sympathize with Israel over the Palestinians. How do you justify Israel deserving a better deal in a partition of Israel and Palestine?

[leftynyc]

11. I justify it very easily

Israel took what was offered to them in 1948 - ever since then the Palestinians and their pals in the neighboring countries have tried to destroy Israel several times. Each time, they lost. You don't get to continually start wars, lose them and then expect to get back what was offered in the past. The losers don't get to negotiate terms and continual do-overs are ridiculous and Israel is under zero obligations to keep turning their other cheek. The Palestinians fucked up - over and over and over again. I see no reason to reward that.

[kayecy]

13. You can justify it very easily....?

"Israel took what was offered to them in 1948 "


The only people with a right to offer anything were the existing inhabitants of the land....You know, the inhabitants whose fathers and grand-fathers had lived on the land for centuries.

Zionists created conflict by flooding the land with immigrant Jews to create a Jewish majority and when that didn't work they carved out the best part of Palestine and demanded it for a Jewish state.

Zionists created the conflict and you have the gall to say "I see no reason to reward that." How about a little remorse for the misery that the Zionists created?.......


You can justify it very easily?......You must be joking!

[leftynyc]

15. What a bunch of complete bullshit

They "flooded" the area that Jews have been living in for thousands of years because Europe tried to kill them all (perhaps you've heard of WWII - it was in all the papers). Got a problem with Israel being a country? Take up your whining with the British and the UN - Israel didn't TAKE anything.

[kayecy]

18. Why don't you read some history.....?

They "flooded" the area that Jews have been living in for thousands of years because Europe tried to kill them all (perhaps you've heard of WWII - it was in all the papers)


Zionists arranged to flood Palestine with immigrants starting in about 1920........Many would have preferred to go to the USA but the USA closed its doors to immigrants in 1922......

Yes, Jews have been living in Palestine for thousands of years but until the 1920s, they never constituted more than a 15% minority......


Instead of trying to be sarcastic, why don't you read some history?

[leftynyc]

20. I do read history,

and my family has LIVED that history. Never more than 15% minority? What pathetic textbooks are you getting this crap from? And why do you have such a problem calling it ISRAEL and it's inhabitants ISRAELI? That really tells me all I need to know about your version of history.

[kayecy]

22. Thank you for your authoritative dismissal of my claim ........

Thank you for your authoritative dismissal of my claim ........Obviously having lived in the 1920s, you and your family will know the true facts. It is a pity you couldn't bring yourself to say how big you THINK the Jewish minority in Palestine was.

If you look up ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine ) you will see a breakdown of the Jews in Palestine as follows:

Year..... Jews..................Total inhabitants................% Jews
1800.... 7,000................275.000............................2.5%
1890....43,000................532,000............................8.0%
1914....94,000................689,000............................13.6%
1922....84,000................752,000............................11.2%


Now, do tell us where YOU get your fantasy facts from?...........Hearsay?

[King_David]

23. Living on the land for centuries?

It matters not at all.

What matters is who is living where at this moment.

Are you advocating relocation and ethnic cleansing of Jews from the land now because of some fantasy that you think happened for centuries? WTF cares

And people wonder why it's so important for Jews to have a very strong army and defense force.

[kayecy]

25. That is what every squatter says.........

"What matters is who is living where at this moment"


That is what every squatter says.........

But, as a supporter of settlers' rights, I suppose we shouldn't expect you to understand such advanced western concepts as knowing the difference between theft and ownership or between right and wrong.


And people wonder why Zionism has such a bad name!

[King_David]

33. A " supporter of settlers rights"?

Laughing at someone like you defending these Jew hating bigots , that have been expelled from the labor party ,in this thread.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134127592

[kayecy]

34. Defending these "Jew hating bigots".......

Don't make me laugh....You wouldn't have a clue about democratic rights, free-speech or justice....You are only interested in one thing......Excusing the inexcusable!



Anyone with the same ideas of justice as ethnic cleansers needs to be very careful about accusing anyone of being a "Jew hating bigot".

[King_David]

40. What a ridiculous post

Pretty borderline stuff.
Doesn't deserve a dignified answer.

[kayecy]

42. "Rubbish" being your usual idea of a dignified answer I suppose.....................n/t

[King_David]

45. Infuriating when exposed,

Isn't it?

[shira]

38. Kayecy, you should know about squatters. You're a Turk in Cyprus, right?

I still remember one of our last conversations, when I asked you what you would have done had you been in charge and able to decide back in the 1930's-40's whether to accept Jews in to Palestine.

You said you'd have sent Jews back to the gas chambers rather than admit them into Palestine. Just like other world leaders.

Have you changed your mind since?

[kayecy]

39. I am so sorry about your memory confusion.....

Talking nonsense and fabricating conversations are typical symptoms of Alzheimer's.


I expect it was the early signs of the disease (illogicality and a persecution complex) that caused me to give up trying to debate with you. Sadly, I never did get you to explain why you thought I was a Turk.


I suggest you seek medical assistance urgently.

[shira]

51. Well, it was 7 years ago when we last discussed your situation in Nicosia, Cyprus.

You didn't want to discuss that because it would expose your double-standard on occupied territory.

I also understand why you'd rather deflect than discuss your position on sending Jews back to the ovens had you been in charge of Jewish immigration into Palestine during the WW2 days.

The point being, you're in no position to preach morals to the Jews.

[kayecy]

53. As I am not in Nicosia and not a Turk ........

As I am not in Nicosia and not a Turk ........I have no idea what you are talking about. You really are delusional.

For the record, I object to ANY people indefinitely occupying the territory of another people whether they be Jews, Chinese, Russians or Turks.

[shira]

56. You were in Nicosia. You didn't want to discuss it then.

Our discussions still exist from 2009, but you don't know what I'm talking about.

Please.

For the record, I object to ANY people indefinitely occupying the territory of another people whether they be Jews, Chinese, Russians or Turks.

I doubt that.

The Palestinians could have had their own state many times since 1947, including in 2001 and 2008, but rejected each and every offer.

There would be no occupation today.

So what's this crap about indefinite occupation? Israel offered, the Palestinians rejected and you support each and every rejection - not because you're against occupation - but because you're against the existence of the Jewish state.

So I call BS.

[kayecy]

62. To the best of my knowledge I have never spent more than a few hours in Nicosia...........

"You were in Nicosia. You didn't want to discuss it then."

To the best of my knowledge I have never spent more than a few hours in Nicosia...........Am I going to get an apology from you or are you going continue insisting that I'm a Turk living in Nicosia and therefore guilty of double standards?

[shira]

66. Oh please, a few hours. That was your hometown/country in your profile.

No one would place Nicosia as their hometown/country if they were just there a few hours.

What a bunch of bullshit.

Bookmarking.

[kayecy]

69. If you chose not to believe me that is your affair........

I said that I had never been in Nicosia for more than a few hours...If you chose not to believe me that is your affair.........

What puzzles me is why my nationality and hometown are such big deals for you......

[shira]

71. This is hilarious. Why would you put Nicosia in your profile if you were only there for hours?

You're busted, and your excuse is beyond pathetic. It's moronic. You should be ashamed.

I said that I had never been in Nicosia for more than a few hours...If you chose not to believe me that is your affair.........

Bwahahaha.

So you put that as hometown in your profile for DU. Who does that? I go traveling but don't put that as hometown in my DU profile. No one does.

It's not about me believing you. No one in their right mind would. It's amazing what Israel hate does to the mind...

What puzzles me is why my nationality and hometown are such big deals for you......

What puzzles me is why you're now ashamed of living in Nicosia.

I raised the point because you hypocritically pretend to be against occupation while living your life in one.

[kayecy]

73. It is indeed hillarious or........ rather pathetic.

Why would you put Nicosia in your profile if you were only there for hours?

Let's get it clear, you think I live in Nicosia, don't you?........I don't, but that is beside the point.....Somehow you have got it into your tiny brain that I am a Turk and am therefore guilty of 'occupying' Cyprus.


I challenge you to produce some evidence, of your ridiculous claim that I am a Turk or stop blustering and admit you are a liar and a deliberate propagator of falsehoods.

[Israeli]

74. kayecy......

Some advice ............ignore her like I do .

[shira]

76. All I know is that you once lived in Nicosia, back when we debated in 2009....

I assumed you were Turkish, so bad on me.
I believe you now when you say you don't live there anymore.

Fair enough?

So why deny you ever lived there?

[Scootaloo]

27. You realize that you defended ethic cleansing in your opening?

Living on the land for centuries?

It matters not at all.

What matters is who is living where at this moment.

I mean, really, right there. "It doesn't matter if people lived here for centuries, they were killed and driven off by hte people who live there now, and that makes them the rightful holders!"

[King_David]

32. Rubbish

The point is that the Jewish state is here to stay.
Jews are now strong and we will not be displaced - that's what's changed - we fight back now.

[Scootaloo]

37. No, the point is you just defended ethnic cleansing.

[King_David]

41. Rubbish

The Jewish state ain't going anywhere.
Hard to swallow eh ?

[kayecy]

43. Ethnic cleansing is racism but it seems to be quiet popular in your Jewish state...........

Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing, survey finds:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

[King_David]

44. There's so many surveys about the Jews, there is an obsession

No other people in the world are obsessed about as much as the Jews.
No other country other than the Jewish state is obsessed about by so many other people's.
So many obsessed will find any survey about anything, especially if it's negative.

[kayecy]

46. I notice you don't attempt to deny it.....Racism is ugly even in Israel.......n/t

[King_David]

47. It's ugly everywhere

All kinds of bigotry... Antisemitism is especially of interest to me ...Being Jewish I see it all over , on the Left and Right , especially in Europe- ( not so much in the USA but you see it here on DU in plenty )

[Scootaloo]

28. Actually, Israel did take the entirety of its claimed territory.

• The UN partition plan (UNGA 181) is non-binding, a suggestion to the interested parties.

• The UN has always lacked any authority to divide or unite territory.

• Great Britain too lacked such authority; as with India, it would have needed a referendum and a plurality in favor of partition. That never happened (and we can guess it would have failed if it had happened)

So, absent a negotiated, democratic partition of the territory, how does Israel gain territory? Well... exactly in the way it did, through armed force.

[Little Tich]

29. I disagree completely, of course.

I think a just solution that doesn't discriminate against the civilians of either side and takes their rights into account is preferable. I'm a real softie, and I actually believe in human rights and democracy and stuff.

[leftynyc]

48. Your implication that I don't

care about human rights is simply adorable. You don't think there should be any consequences for the war in 1948 and those that came after and I couldn't disagree more strongly with that. You want to give the Palestinians continual do-overs and reward those who waged war rather than accept their own state. I think that's madness that rewards terrorists.

[Little Tich]

59. Perhaps that's why I prefer Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton. n/t

[Israeli]

61. :)......nt.

[shira]

57. The map of Palestine 1920 shows Arabs got around 80% & Jews 20%....

Last edited Mon May 2, 2016, 04:37 PM - Edit history (2)

But you don't think that's fair.

How adorable.

This isn't about human rights and occupation to you. It's about borders. Percentage of land is more important to you than human righta and occupation. Now explain how I'm wrong about you.

[Little Tich]

58. While you seem to not understand the difference between Mandatory Palestine and Transjordan, that

isn't really important.

I have little concern for what country a certain geographical area belongs to, but I do care about the people living there. The people living in any area that's partitioned should be allowed to live there, or if they've left, they should be allowed to return. This right should be bestowed to their descendants as well.

This is a principle that I think is valid at all times, and should be applied to people from Kosovo, Cyprus, Syria (all of Syria including the Golan Heights), Palestine or any other area. Redrawing a map should never mean that people have to leave or not be able to return.

[leftynyc]

63. And what compensation should

be given to the hundreds of thousands of Jews that were ACTUALLY thrown out of their countries when Israel was declared a state? They obviously aren't going to go back to Egypt, Iraq, Iran, etc.....so what should they be looking forward to receiving?

[Little Tich]

77. It's actually possible that some of the descendants of those refugees might want to return, and they

shouldn't be denied that right.

It's also quite possible that the state of war between Israel and most Arab nations won't last forever. Regardless, their stolen property should be restored, of course. It doesn't matter how long ago it was stolen, it still belongs to those it was stolen from.

[shira]

65. And if people returning results in a terrible civil war, genocide, ethnic cleansing...

....hundreds of thousands dead, that's okay so long as your version of justice happens.

That's human rights in your opinion, even if hundreds of thousands (maybe > 1 million) die.

I want you to justify your position with this in mind.

Remember the OP about Israel's Arab MP's who shed a little light into what their kind of leadership would look like?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134126189

Now that was ugly, but it's what you're advocating.

Defend that.

[Little Tich]

78. I don't think that Israeli Jews are so bloodthirsty that they would kill all Palestinians trying to

return to their ancestral homeland.

The "terrible civil war, genocide, ethnic cleansing" will never happen.

[shira]

79. No they're not, but the suicide bombers with knives & other assorted Hamas goons sure are...

Did you somehow forget about them? Pretend they're just Teddy bears?

Now assume with an Arab majority that the Joint List (at best) gains control in Israel. How does that make life in Israel more progressive than it currently is? Why would women, gays, christians, or jews in Israel want that?

Would you want to live under Joint List control (no gay rights, freedom of speech...)?

Be honest.

[Scootaloo]

26. You're right, they haven't been asked.

That's kind of the genesis of the whole problem. Nobody's ever asked the Palestinians, only imposed on them and demanded of them.

[kayecy]

31. You are absolutely right..........

Sadly, it is the British government, or rather Lord Balfour who are as much to blame as anyone.

In 1919 Balfour wrote to Lord Curzon:

"....in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country….The Four Great Powers are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land."