Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:05 PM Oct 2015

Palestinian Child Soldiers: The Horrifying Silence

....And there are more. I could spend this entire post listing all of the laws, treaties and resolutions that ban the use of child soldiers from around the world and I still probably wouldn’t get them all. This is one of the most universal evils. It is roundly condemned by the civilized world, and most of the uncivilized world, everywhere it rears its evil head. There is only one place in the world where there is no talk about child soldiers. There are only a few regimes that are not called out from all corners of the map when they use child soldiers. Unfortunately for Israel, Israelis and most of all, Palestinian children, the regimes that are not condemned for this are The Palestinian Authority and Hamas, and the place is Palestine.

For some reason, we never hear any discussion of child soldiers in Palestine, but we all very clearly know they exist and that it is nothing new. The PLO, Fatah and the Palestinian Authority have for decades used children as fodder to throw rocks, fireworks and explosives at soldiers, as bombers, as lookouts and couriers. Hamas has been even more brazen, publicizing its recruitment of an army of child soldiers. In the current wave of terrorism in Israel and Palestine, we have seen attackers as young as 13 years old. These child soldiers have been called to action by Abu Mazen, The PA, and Hamas who then glorify them to encourage more children to commit attacks.

The undeniable fact is that child soldiers are used by both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas in contravention of more international laws than can be reasonably counted. All of this done without a word of international condemnation. Everything you hear is about Israeli violations of international law and then there is an argument back and forth. People give statutes and interpretations of international law on both sides. But here we have a clear and unambiguous violation of international human rights, labor, war and child rights laws and we don’t hear word one from the international community.

The use of child soldiers is an unquestionable evil. This is because when child soldiers are used not only can’t their be any winners, but it makes any kind of real peace that much harder to attain. There is a line that is attributed to Golda Meir, “We can forgive them for killing our children, but we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.” No sane person wants to kill children, it is abhorrent to us, against our very nature and biology. The use of child soldiers is designed to either kill the enemy or force the enemy to become a child killer, with all of the vast psychological damage that would do to someone. It’s a double attack, a physical attack, but much more harmfully, it is a vicious psychological attack. I can’t imagine the heartache I would feel if I had to make the choice of killing a child or letting that child kill me or others. How can anyone be expected to remain whole after being forced to make that choice? The damage is so much worse than loss, I would expect that it would damage a person’s soul. Beyond that, this strategy destroys or poisons an entire generation of Palestinian children, and the Palestinians have already lost too many generations children, both as soldiers and civilians. This strategy literally kills the future of the Palestinian people.


more...
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-child-soldiers-the-horrifying-silence/

67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Palestinian Child Soldiers: The Horrifying Silence (Original Post) shira Oct 2015 OP
OP cont'd... shira Oct 2015 #1
funny how people oppressed by the Israelis develop many responses nt msongs Oct 2015 #2
Do you support the use of child militants or are you horrified by it? n/t shira Oct 2015 #8
Uh huh. Fascinating... grossproffit Oct 2015 #10
LOL King_David Oct 2015 #23
Funny that you support HRC when you feel so strongly cali May 2016 #67
More crocodile tears about Palestinian children from those who cheer on the IDF when geek tragedy Oct 2015 #3
But why the horrifying silence about Palestinian child combatants? n/t shira Oct 2015 #7
not every kid who picks up a rock is a 'child combatant' recruited by adults geek tragedy Oct 2015 #12
So because folks don't believe those raising the issue really care about kids..... shira Oct 2015 #13
Gaza is a miniature failed state, ruled de facto by warlords. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #14
Not sure why the opinions of others should cause horrifying silence..... shira Oct 2015 #15
They don't ignore it. Amnesty International and others have been condemning the practice geek tragedy Oct 2015 #17
You had to go back 10 years for that? Anything more recent? shira Oct 2015 #19
You think you're rather clever in this game you play, but the actual Democrats geek tragedy Oct 2015 #21
So you have no answer as to why there's horrifying silence by Team Palestine.... shira Oct 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Oct 2015 #4
If you were equally concerned about the brutality of Israel's procon Oct 2015 #5
Why is there horrifying silence about Palestinian child militants? n/t shira Oct 2015 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Oct 2015 #9
I like to know why they don't condemn it either. n/t shira Oct 2015 #11
Is this a rhetorical question? grossproffit Oct 2015 #16
No, you want to accuse people of not condemning it becaues you want to whitewash geek tragedy Oct 2015 #18
Well, I don't see Team Palestine condemning it at all... shira Oct 2015 #20
Well what do u think of anti-Israel activists who won't condemn it.... shira Oct 2015 #32
Learned anything yet? Denial of child human shields goes hand in hand with this.... shira Oct 2015 #49
Democratic Congresswoman Betty McCollum azurnoir Oct 2015 #22
Congresswoman Asks For Investigation Into Israeli Shooting Of Two Palestinian Teens azurnoir Oct 2015 #24
Child soldiers? Where? Little Tich Oct 2015 #26
That's exactly the point the article is making oberliner Oct 2015 #27
perhaps you write Congress they seem to be missing it too azurnoir Oct 2015 #28
Do you support the use of child militants or are you horrified by it? n/t shira Oct 2015 #31
I;m horrified by it where it actually occurs azurnoir Oct 2015 #34
So you're denying it happens. HRW and Amnesty reported on it in 2004-2005. shira Oct 2015 #37
a decade ago during the second intifada it seems that history is being used here to justify killing azurnoir Oct 2015 #38
That amateur blogger has as much cred as Jame's O'Keef on DU. They should keep it up since R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2015 #42
It's happening today. Here's a report from the 2014 war... shira Oct 2015 #56
Yeah, riight... Little Tich Oct 2015 #33
Where do you see HRW claiming no systematic use of children as combatants? n/t shira Oct 2015 #35
It's not necessary to make this an issue about only HRW. Little Tich Oct 2015 #41
So now HRW and Amnesty reports from 2004 and 2005 are false? shira Oct 2015 #44
My point is that the claims in the OP about Palestinian child soldiers are outrageous. Little Tich Oct 2015 #54
First you wanted confirmation from HRW. Now you could care less.... shira Oct 2015 #57
Could be oberliner Oct 2015 #36
I'm sorry, it doesn't feel as if Palestinian child soldiers is a real issue. Little Tich Oct 2015 #40
Do you condemn Hamas' use of mentally disabled children as suicide bombers? shira Oct 2015 #45
I don't think a single case constitutes a whole brigade of mentally disabled children. n/t Little Tich Oct 2015 #55
Here's the Cover of Life Magazine, 1970 about Palestinian child soldiers... shira Oct 2015 #29
I think that when it comes to human rights issues, it's always good to see what Little Tich Oct 2015 #39
Respectable human rights orgs? Like Amnesty and HRW from 2004-05? shira Oct 2015 #46
You want the jury results on Alert on your post Shira? (i voted to leave) EX500rider Oct 2015 #43
Pathetic, isn't it? Thanks. shira Oct 2015 #47
Am I allowed to post what they said in the alert? EX500rider Oct 2015 #48
Why not? The name of the alerter is unknown. n/t shira Oct 2015 #50
Ok... EX500rider Oct 2015 #52
Thanks - and anyone who wants to challenge the facts in my post can feel free.... shira Oct 2015 #53
Here's HRW in 2004.... shira Oct 2015 #30
child abuse, pure and simple. bumprstickr Oct 2015 #51
Israeli Documentary about Hamas' child soldiers presented at UN... shira Oct 2015 #58
Hamas concludes first-ever military training camp for girls shira Oct 2015 #59
Deaths of 160 Palestinian Children (child soldiers) Forced to Work on Terror Tunnels shira Oct 2015 #60
Fatah student movement encourages Martyrdom and stabbing and car ramming attacks in video of staged shira Apr 2016 #61
How the World Encourages Hamas to Recruit Child Soldiers shira Apr 2016 #62
Gaza Children’s Festival Shows Toddlers Being Trained to Murder Jews shira Apr 2016 #63
Hey, Shira leftynyc Apr 2016 #64
VIDEO: Palestinian Children's Play Featuring Murder shira May 2016 #65
Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad shira May 2016 #66
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
1. OP cont'd...
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:06 PM
Oct 2015
How can this sort of atrocity be ignored by the world? Why don’t we hear anything from the press about this? While I see reports and resolutions about child soldiers all over the world, why don’t we see anything about it here? Why is this allowed to continue without comment. We Israelis don’t even talk about it. We cower at the idea of the International Criminal Court, but the case against the PA and Hamas is much stronger and getting stronger everyday as both of these governments blatantly, publicly and admittedly continue to use child soldiers.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is probably the most highly politicized and publicized conflict in the world, everyone has a position no matter where you live in the world. But this is something that everyone should be able to come together on. Palestinian children are being used to make war, as pawns to be thrown away as a strategy. This should concern everyone, those who care for Palestine and want to see Palestinian children safe, prosperous and psychologically whole. It should concern those who care for Israel and want to see Israeli children safe, prosperous and psychologically whole. This should concern those of us like myself who care for both Israel and Palestine and want the best for both of our peoples. This should concern everyone, no matter what your view is of who is right and who is wrong. This is an evil that we should all work to stop for the sake of all of our children.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
3. More crocodile tears about Palestinian children from those who cheer on the IDF when
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:16 PM
Oct 2015

it blows Palestinian children to pieces using artillery and bombs.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
12. not every kid who picks up a rock is a 'child combatant' recruited by adults
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:26 PM
Oct 2015

if you're looking for people to criticize Hamas for what it does, well yes you can add that to the list of abuses Hamas has committed. Hamas is still the gold standard for human rights abuses in the area.

But the people carrying on about Palestinian children participating in conflict also shrugged their shoulders and said "shit happens" when the IDF murdered those boys playing on a Gaza beach, and then whitewashed its own conduct.

So, we can see right through the purpose of such pleas for the welfare of Palestinian children--the concern is not the welfare of Palestinian children, but rather Israel getting bad publicity when Palestinian children die.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
13. So because folks don't believe those raising the issue really care about kids.....
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:33 PM
Oct 2015

.....then those claiming to support Palestinians shouldn't care either and should remain silent?

Or is it that those on Team Palestine support Israel's bad publicity, and therefore won't say a word?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
14. Gaza is a miniature failed state, ruled de facto by warlords.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:39 PM
Oct 2015

This is the kind of stuff warlords do. This is what happens when people are stateless.

It's part of the larger, overwhelming tragedy that afflicts the people of Gaza.

Again, those who don't care about Palestinian lives should at least have the decency to not use the issue as a weapon against critics of Israel. It's repulsive as well as transparent.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
15. Not sure why the opinions of others should cause horrifying silence.....
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:43 PM
Oct 2015

....from people crying about human rights, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, colonialism, genocide, etc....

You haven't really answered that.

For example, what would lead journalists, the UN, and human rights activists not to report this or condemn it?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. They don't ignore it. Amnesty International and others have been condemning the practice
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:53 PM
Oct 2015

for a long time.

From Amnesty International's report dated 2005.:

Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army.



However, IDF apologists and cheerleaders would not know this, since they largely ignore what human rights organizations have to say.

So spare us the crass and patently dishonest use of Palestinian children as chatter for your hasbarist nonsense.



 

shira

(30,109 posts)
19. You had to go back 10 years for that? Anything more recent?
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:57 PM
Oct 2015

Amnesty blasts Israel repeatedly for the same stuff over and over again.

I don't see you condemning it, so why is that?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
21. You think you're rather clever in this game you play, but the actual Democrats
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:03 PM
Oct 2015

and liberals on this site can see right through the ghoulish 'gotcha' games you and the other cheerleaders for IDF war crimes are playing here.

yes, it's terrible that Hamas murders Jewish children as well as exploiting Palestinian children.

It's equally bad when the IDF murders Palestinian while they're playing soccer on a goddamn beach, and the when the only thing about that bothers the pro-Israel crowd is that IDF might get blamed for its own acts of murder, and instantly goes into "it's not Israel's fault" mode.



 

shira

(30,109 posts)
25. So you have no answer as to why there's horrifying silence by Team Palestine....
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:38 PM
Oct 2015

I think you're well aware what my explanation is for that, but why don't you try to give me a better explanation for that silence?

Response to shira (Original post)

procon

(15,805 posts)
5. If you were equally concerned about the brutality of Israel's
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:54 PM
Oct 2015

invading military forces against the civilian population of Palestine, then these frequent rants would be more credible, yeah? Maybe some crocodile tears...

Response to shira (Reply #6)

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
18. No, you want to accuse people of not condemning it becaues you want to whitewash
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:55 PM
Oct 2015

Israel's routine killing of children in Gaza.

Amnesty International has been condemning it for longer than you've been posting at DU, but you wouldn't know, since Amnesty International criticizes Israel which makes them evil in your eyes.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
20. Well, I don't see Team Palestine condemning it at all...
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 05:58 PM
Oct 2015

You had to go back 10 years to find something from a Human Rights org.

As if nothing has happened in the past decade...

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
32. Well what do u think of anti-Israel activists who won't condemn it....
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:49 AM
Oct 2015

....but pretend they care about Palestinian children?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
49. Learned anything yet? Denial of child human shields goes hand in hand with this....
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:57 PM
Oct 2015

I don't think it's possible to hate Palestinian children more than to tacitly support these heinous war crimes against children.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
22. Democratic Congresswoman Betty McCollum
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:29 PM
Oct 2015

Today, Congresswoman Betty McCollum (D-MN) released a letter that she and 18 of her congressional colleagues sent to Secretary of State John Kerry urging the United States to prioritize the human rights of Palestinian children living in the Occupied West Bank in the bilateral relationship with the Government of Israel. The letter specifically addresses Israel’s on-going military detention of Palestinian children in which they are arrested, interrogated, held incommunicado, and frequently physically abused. A 2013 report by UNICEF called “Children in Israeli Military Detention” (along with a subsequent 2015 report) highlights the fact that during the previous decade more than 7,000 Palestinian children ages 12 to 17 have been subject to military detention and abuse that violates international human rights standards.

Members of Congress signing the letter to Secretary Kerry indicated that while Israel’s security interests are a national security priority of the United States, respecting and defending the rights of children is a fundamental American value that cannot be ignored.

“Israel’s military detention of Palestinian children is an indefensible abuse of human rights. I hope this letter results in State Department pressure on the Government of Israel to end this systemic abuse immediately,” said McCollum. “Palestinian children should be treated exactly the same as Israeli or American children, without the fear that one day soldiers will arrest them, beat them, and lock them away in prison.”

https://mccollum.house.gov/press-release/mccollum-leads-letter-secretary-state-kerry-putting-spotlight-israeli-military

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
24. Congresswoman Asks For Investigation Into Israeli Shooting Of Two Palestinian Teens
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 06:34 PM
Oct 2015

Rep. Betty McCollum (D-Minn.) has requested the State Department open an investigation into whether the killing of two Palestinian teenagers last year by Israeli security forces warrants withholding of military aid under the conditions of the Leahy Law.

“The murders of Nadeem Nawara and Mohammad Daher highlight a brutal system of occupation that devalues and dehumanizes Palestinian children," she wrote in a letter to two State Department officials, referring to the teenagers who were shot and killed May 15, 2014, during a protest at the Ofer prison in the West Bank. “It is time for a strong and unequivocal statement of U.S. commitment to the human rights of Palestinian children living under Israeli occupation,” McCollum continued in the letter, which was publicly released on Monday.

The protests were part of the annual remembrance of Nakba Day, the Palestinian term for the day after Israel declared itself a state in 1948. The Israeli military initially denied using live ammunition at the protest, insisting that security forces only used rubber bullets to disperse the crowd. But a bloodied bullet was found in Nawara’s backpack, and an autopsy showed an entry and exit wound in his body. At his family’s request, Daher did not have an autopsy.

A compilation of live video footage from news outlets and closed-circuit television from a local business show that neither boy was actively participating in the protest or posing a threat to Israeli soldiers when shot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congresswoman-suggests-withholding-aid-to-israel-over-shooting-of-two-palestinian-teens_55db8b01e4b0a40aa3abdd3b

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
26. Child soldiers? Where?
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 11:48 PM
Oct 2015

I took a look at Human Rights Watch's website on the subject (https://www.hrw.org/topic/childrens-rights/child-soldiers), and I didn't find anything about Israel or Palestine on that subject. It's of course possible that Human Rights Watch simply forgot about the Palestinian child soldiers, but it's way more likely that the OP is totally and utterly bogus.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
27. That's exactly the point the article is making
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:45 AM
Oct 2015

The article asserts, "All of this done without a word of international condemnation".

If there was something on the Human Rights Watch website about the subject then the argument wouldn't make any sense.

The whole point is that these abuses are happening and international organizations aren't covering them.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
28. perhaps you write Congress they seem to be missing it too
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 04:57 AM
Oct 2015

and for our Congress both the House and Senate that seems rather odd

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
34. I;m horrified by it where it actually occurs
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:18 AM
Oct 2015

but when a wannabe blogger uses it to justify a country cold bloodedly killing children because they are holding a rock or that said country has killed an average of 1 child every 3 days for 15 years then I find that person to be a dishonest emotional extortionist, who uses cheap tactics to justify the unjustifiable

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
37. So you're denying it happens. HRW and Amnesty reported on it in 2004-2005.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:20 AM
Oct 2015

Children under 18 years old were involved with Hamas in the 2014 war, and were killed.

Why deny it?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
38. a decade ago during the second intifada it seems that history is being used here to justify killing
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:24 AM
Oct 2015

children today

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
42. That amateur blogger has as much cred as Jame's O'Keef on DU. They should keep it up since
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 11:28 AM
Oct 2015

it is the best way for people to see the flabby underbelly of the hasbara propagandists.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
56. It's happening today. Here's a report from the 2014 war...
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 01:09 PM
Oct 2015
Allegations of nine instances of child recruitment and use by Palestinian armed groups, including by the Al-Qassam Brigades, were reported. The following five cases were verified: on 21 July, a 16-year-old Palestinian boy was injured and captured during an ambush by the Al-Qassam Brigades on Israeli forces near Kibbutz Nir Am/Erez. Two boys aged 17 years were killed in targeted attacks by Israeli drone strikes in Jabaliya and Khan Younis on 12 and 14 July, both reportedly associated with Palestinian armed groups. On 22 July, a 16-year-old Palestinian boy, reportedly recruited by the Al-Qassam Brigades, disappeared and his family was informed of his death on 26 July. A video shows the boy giving his last statement, including his full name. On 2 August, a 17-year-old boy who was reportedly used by the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in the shelling of his home by Israeli security forces. A video uploaded by Al-Qassam Brigades shows him undergoing military training and giving his last testament.


https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/countries/occupied-palestinian-territory-and-israel/

So why the horrifying silence?

Do you support Palestinians using child soldiers?

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
33. Yeah, riight...
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:08 AM
Oct 2015

It might also be that the OP is totally bogus, and that the by the standards used by HRW, there's no systematic use of children as combatants...

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
41. It's not necessary to make this an issue about only HRW.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:19 AM
Oct 2015

The United States State Department has also left out Hamas from their list of users of child soldiers. If it's a conspiracy it runs really deep...

Dispatches: A Mixed US Report on Child Soldiers

Source: Human Rights Watch, July 28, 2015

Yesterday the United States State Department released a new snapshot of how governments around the world are doing in ending their use of child soldiers. Its 2015 list names eight governments – Burma, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen – for recruiting or using children in their armed forces, or supporting militias or other armed groups that use child soldiers.

There are a few hopeful developments. The number of countries named is down from a high of 10 in 2013, and the State Department notes that child recruitment is decreasing in several countries, including Burma, Congo, and Somalia. In fact, in Congo, only a single new case of child recruitment by government forces was reported last year – a huge change from years of child soldier use – though some military commanders reportedly provide financial and military support to armed groups still using children.

But there’s bad news too. Nigeria was added to the list for the first time this year because a government-affiliated militia, the Civilian Joint Task force, has recruited and used child soldiers – sometimes by force – in the fight against the Islamist militant group Boko Haram. In Yemen the Houthi armed group increased recruitment of children after overthrowing the government in September 2014; UNICEF, the United Nations Children’s Fund, has estimated that one-third of all fighters in the country were children. Perhaps most discouragingly, South Sudan has reversed its progress in ending use of child soldiers. As the country plunged back into conflict in December 2013, some army commanders conducted large-scale recruitment of children.

President Barack Obama now has about two months to decide whether to let congressionally imposed military sanctions go into effect against the five named governments that are slated for US military assistance next year. His decision in the past to withhold key military assistance from Congo almost certainly contributed to the notable progress by that country. But in too many other cases, he has invoked “national interests” to waive the law and allow governments using child soldiers to continue receiving US military aid.


Read more: https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/28/dispatches-mixed-us-report-child-soldiers


 

shira

(30,109 posts)
44. So now HRW and Amnesty reports from 2004 and 2005 are false?
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:48 PM
Oct 2015

Or is it that you think Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Fatah's militants have behaved better since?

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
54. My point is that the claims in the OP about Palestinian child soldiers are outrageous.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 10:03 PM
Oct 2015

While Hamas definitely are doing things they shouldn't be doing, these problems are well documented and reported. However, the claim that Hamas is as bad as Burma, Congo, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen when it comes to child soldiers, absolutely beggars belief.

I have a tendency to react strongly to outrageous comparisons like the one in the OP, simply because they're wrong and divert attention from the real issues.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
57. First you wanted confirmation from HRW. Now you could care less....
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 01:11 PM
Oct 2015

Why the bait and switch? I don't understand all the denial when it should be very easy to condemn this evil practice against children.

Here's a report from DCI-Palestine about the 2012 Gaza war:

Reports of children recruited by Palestinian armed groups continue to surface. During Israel's military offensive on the Gaza Strip in November 2012, known as Operation Pillar of Defense, DCIP documented one case involving a child recruited by Hamas' military wing that served as a lookout on the Israel border with Gaza. During Operation Protective Edge in July and August 2014, DCIP documented six cases involving children killed who were likely affiliated with Palestinian armed groups.


http://www.dci-palestine.org/issues_child_recruitment

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
36. Could be
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:19 AM
Oct 2015

But the point of the article would be rendered completely bogus if there was indeed coverage of this on HRW.

The fact that there isn't such coverage actually supports the claim that the international community is ignoring this phenomenon.

The question then becomes whether the phenomenon is real or not.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
40. I'm sorry, it doesn't feel as if Palestinian child soldiers is a real issue.
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:58 AM
Oct 2015

The absence of evidence doesn't prove there's a conspiracy, I think.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
45. Do you condemn Hamas' use of mentally disabled children as suicide bombers?
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:48 PM
Oct 2015

14- year old Hussar Abdo, 2004

Israeli Soldiers Thwart a Boy’s Suicide Bombing Attempt
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/25/international/middleeast/25BOY.html

At great risk, the IDF saved his life.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
29. Here's the Cover of Life Magazine, 1970 about Palestinian child soldiers...
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:11 AM
Oct 2015

This has been going on for decades.



Harvard surgeon on child throwing a grenade...





VIDEO: Arafat: Dead children are greatest message to the world

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=711&fld_id=722&doc_id=479



Amnesty International 2005:
"Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. Children are susceptible to recruitment by manipulation or may be driven to join armed groups for a variety of reasons, including a desire to avenge relatives or friends killed by the Israeli army."


According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, children were used as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians" during the al-Aqsa Intifada. Fatah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have all been implicated in involving children in this way. [font color = "red"]The issue was brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6][/font] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict


Australian Aid Worker's personal account of child suicide bombers...




160 Gazan children die digging tunnels for Hamas....
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=8776547&ct=14138051


Palestinians use children to provoke IDF soldiers....




More recently from 2014, DCI-Palestine classified 17-year old twins as innocent children (Anas and Saad) killed by Israel:
http://www.dci-palestine.org/september_4_update_indefinite_truce_brings_relief_and_hope_to_exhausted_gaza_population

Seven children died on July 20 as a result of intense violence in the Shuja�iyya neighborhood of Gaza City. Saad and Anas al-Sakafi, 17-year-old twins, died when their family�s home was targeted in an airstrike.


Of course, they were child militants:

http://saraya.ps/post/39219/%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B3-%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%B9%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A3%D9%85%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%A9

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
39. I think that when it comes to human rights issues, it's always good to see what
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:37 AM
Oct 2015

reputable human rights organizations have to say.

While it's certainly true that Hamas is treating children badly, it's also true that Palestine has joined the ICC, which makes anyone who uses child soldiers criminally liable.

However, most of the HRW criticism about Palestinian children being abused is against Israel, not Hamas:

August 26, 2015: How Israeli impunity threatens Palestinian children
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/08/26/how-israeli-impunity-threatens-palestinian-children

July 19, 2015:Israel: Security Forces Abuse Palestinian Children
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/19/israel-security-forces-abuse-palestinian-children

July 9, 2015: Dispatches: Dreading School in Gaza
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/09/dispatches-dreading-school-gaza

My humble opinion on the subject is formed by comparing and reading sources I trust, with other sources (yours) that I'm not sure whether to trust or not. As it stands now, I think your argument is overreaching itself, and your conclusion isn't supported by your evidence.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
46. Respectable human rights orgs? Like Amnesty and HRW from 2004-05?
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:49 PM
Oct 2015

I'm just looking for consistency from you, that's all.

EX500rider

(11,434 posts)
43. You want the jury results on Alert on your post Shira? (i voted to leave)
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 11:53 AM
Oct 2015

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Oct 30, 2015, 12:51 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Impossible to adjudicate this.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wow, alerter needs to take a chill pill. The post seems perfectly fine to me. You might disagree with it, but you don't get to silence everyone who disagrees with you. Good grief.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

EX500rider

(11,434 posts)
52. Ok...
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:10 PM
Oct 2015
ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is the worst form of anti-Palestinian BS, and this poster does it a lot.

S/he they have had their posts hidden before with this unsubstantiated rumor of child soldiers.

What's worse is that s/he they have used the Elder of Ziyon disinformation before...as fact when it is unsubstantiated BS.

(One humorous note EoZ was banned from DU for inflammatory and unsubstantiated claims...aka lies)

Further more s/he they have used the "Palestinians use children to provoke IDF soldiers" video calling it "Pallywood" ...an offensive term but still goes full bore in describing these kids as being "used" while excusing Israel when it kills children like this.

The last link is unverifiable since it is in a foreign language, but the OP author doesn't care just as long as they can spread hatred of the Palestinians people, and their children, who often wind up dead at the hands of the IDf and an indifferent Israeli population.

This kind of disinformation is sick, and it should not be tolerated
.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
53. Thanks - and anyone who wants to challenge the facts in my post can feel free....
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:16 PM
Oct 2015

For example, the last link in Arabic can be easily google-translated to show that the 17 year old twins were militants, not innocent children as DCI-Palestine (and Amnesty International) falsely claimed.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
30. Here's HRW in 2004....
Fri Oct 30, 2015, 05:25 AM
Oct 2015
Occupied Territories: Stop Use of Children in Suicide Bombings
https://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/01/occupied-territories-stop-use-children-suicide-bombings

That was 2004.

I guess we need to pretend Hamas and Islamic Jihad listened to HRW and have been good ever since.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
58. Israeli Documentary about Hamas' child soldiers presented at UN...
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 01:17 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/New-Israeli-documentary-shows-Hamas-training-child-soldiers-395928


A new 11-minute documentary created by Israeli filmmakers depicting senior Hamas figures brazenly discussing the training of child soldiers and exalting suicide bombers at military-style youth camps was presented as evidence at a United Nations Forum held in Geneva Wednesday.

The filmmakers intended to show how Hamas was working to exploit the world body's relief arm, the United Nations Relief Work Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East.

The documentary, called "Children's Army of Hamas, funded by the Israel-based Center for Near East Policy Research (CNEPR), in association with the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, showed that the Gaza-based terror organization was breaking international laws by training children to fight in combat roles.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
59. Hamas concludes first-ever military training camp for girls
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 01:38 PM
Oct 2015

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — On Aug. 1, Hamas’ women’s wing opened the all-female “First al-Quds Army camp” to prepare academically exceptional girls aged 12-18 for the liberation battle of Palestine.

...This camp, which ended Aug. 10, is the first of its kind in the Gaza Strip, as Hamas has never organized a female training camp before. Around 1,000 girls attend the camp, which offered a special curriculum to resist the occupation taught by women affiliated with the Hamas movement. These women enjoy extensive military experience and know how to intellectually mobilize people against the occupation.

Camp director Rajaa al-Halabi told Al-Monitor, “The goal of the First al-Quds Army camp is to prepare girls for self-defense and for future battles against the occupation.” Halabi explained that the camp focuses on the psychological education of girls, who participate voluntarily. Training includes how to raise a new generation that embraces the culture of liberation and fighting the occupation and strengthening participants’ sense of patriotism and interest in preserving Palestinian rights.

The group of girls that stood in a schoolyard in the neighborhood of Ramla, in central Gaza City, seemed passionate about learning military techniques, just like participants of the yearly “Pioneers of Liberation” camps for men and boys from age 7 to 60 organized by Hamas since 2013. The girls’ leader worked to organize them into military formation and teach them about the basic military march.

In addition to the Ramla camp, other camps are spread across Gaza, such as Tuffah and al-Daraj in central Gaza City and Khan Yunis and Rafah in the south. Ghada al-Abed, the head of the training program of the camps in Tuffah and al-Daraj, said that the camp in Ramla is just one of several camps all held in schools Aug. 1-10 to build the capacities of participants and enhance their sense of patriotism. Abed told Al-Monitor, “These camps target girls who have a school average of over 95%, the elites of Palestinian female students,” aiming to train role models for other students. She explained that one of the first skills these girls learn at the camps is the military march, which teaches them discipline and order. Then they carry out activities and exercises designed to strengthen the girls’ faith that Jerusalem — a matter of conflict between Jews and Muslims for many years — rightfully belongs of Muslims only, not Jews.

Wafaa al-Sharbassi, 16, told Al-Monitor, “I joined the First al-Quds Army camp, and I am proud to be part of it. These camps grow the seeds of love of the nation and teaches us about our Islamic sanctities that are being blatantly violated, such as Al-Aqsa Mosque. They also strengthen our rights to defend our presence and resist the Israeli occupation.”

She added, “This camp revived our hopes to create a female army to liberate Al-Aqsa from the occupation. We learn about weapons and how to handle them, and we are ready to go through intensive military training for this purpose.”

Hiba Abu al-Laban, 13, told Al-Monitor, “I joined the First al-Quds Army camp because I hope women can play a role in the future liberation battle. We were also exposed to the Israeli lies about Al-Aqsa Mosque, such as the existence of Jewish artifacts under the mosque, which would give [Israel] the pretext to violate the mosque’s foundation and structure and destroy it.”


Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/08/gaza-hamas-women-camp-liberation-battle-palestine.html#ixzz3qAiuCLoW

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
60. Deaths of 160 Palestinian Children (child soldiers) Forced to Work on Terror Tunnels
Sat Oct 31, 2015, 03:02 PM
Oct 2015

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is urging the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) to investigate the death of at least 160 Palestinian children who were used by Hamas to build their terror tunnels.

“Hamas officials openly admitted that children were used to help build their terror tunnels and that at least 160 Palestinian kids died during so-called work accidents,” charged Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a leading Jewish human rights NGO.

An article published this week in Tablet, cites a 2012 article in the Institute for Palestine Studies by Nicolas Pelham. In it he wrote:

“A similarly cavalier approach to child labor and tunnel fatalities damaged the movement’s (i.e., Hamas) standing with human-rights groups, despite government assurances dating back to 2008 that it was considering curbs. During a police patrol that the author was permitted to accompany in December 2011, nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials. Safety controls on imports appear similarly lax, although the TAC insists that a sixteen-man contingent carries out sporadic spot-checks.” According to Pelham, Hamas’ “Tunnel Affairs Commission” continued to stonewall any complaints about the lethal exploitation of child labor ever since 2008.


“Isn’t there a single member of the UNHRC, whether the US, Germany, UK, or France to stand up and demand accountability for Hamas’ barbarities, at least when the victims are Palestinian children? And where is the multitude of NGOs devoted to protecting children? Will they ever raise the target of their moral outrage at anyone in the Middle East other than Israel?”

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=8776547&ct=14138051
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
61. Fatah student movement encourages Martyrdom and stabbing and car ramming attacks in video of staged
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:16 AM
Apr 2016
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=470&doc_id=17755

Fatah student movement encourages Martyrdom and stabbing and car ramming attacks in video of staged terror attack against Israeli soldiers

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=470&doc_id=17755

The video “Martyrdom-seeking unites us” is produced by Fatah’s Shabiba student movement at Birzeit University

Text at the beginning of the video: “The Shabiba student movement – the Martyr (Shahid) Yasser Arafat Bloc presents”

The video simulates a car-ramming and stabbing attack at the Atara checkpoint near Ramallah. Three young Palestinians are seen planning and carrying out an attack in which they kill two Israeli soldiers by ramming their car into one of them and stabbing the other. They are all shot and killed by the soldiers during the attack.”

The rest of the Fatah student video shows the family of one of the terrorists receiving the news of his death as a "Martyr." The terrorist's mother hears her dead son talking to her, telling her that the "Martyrs" will be back. The dead terrorists appear at a ceremony honoring them, and in a speech, one of them mentions names of other terrorists - Ahmad Yassin, Abu Ali Mustafa, Fathi Shaqaqi, as well as Yasser Arafat, adding that "we are Martyrs who sacrificed ourselves for the cause."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=61&v=JoIHCVaUzJk
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
62. How the World Encourages Hamas to Recruit Child Soldiers
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 09:29 AM
Apr 2016
Hamas is currently recruiting thousands of Palestinians aged 15 to 21 into its new “Liberation Army” in Gaza, journalist Khaled Abu Toameh reported today. So on top of the fact that it’s spending its money on a military buildup even as thousands of residents of Hamas-controlled Gaza remain homeless with no help in sight, half the age cohort Hamas seeks to recruit consists of people under 18, whom the United Nations and international human-rights groups define as children. Recruiting child soldiers is generally considered a gross violation of human rights. Yet far from condemning this behavior, the “international community” is actively encouraging it.

After all, you don’t hear much about Hamas’s recruitment efforts from the UN, the EU, the media or major human-rights organizations. But if those child soldiers are someday killed fighting Israel, all of these bodies will vie over who can condemn Israel for “killing children” most vociferously.
And it’s precisely that reaction that makes recruiting child soldiers a win-win for Hamas: By so doing, not only can it significantly expand its fighting forces, but it can also ensure that Israel suffers international vilification whenever a war breaks out–all without suffering any negative consequences to itself....

...But it only works because the UN, the media, human-rights groups, world leaders, and all the other sources people depend on for information collaborate with it.
One way they do so is by neglecting to mention that some of those children–we’ll probably never know how many–were actually killed by misfired Hamas rockets or secondary explosions of the weaponry Hamas routinely stores in civilian houses; all Palestinian casualties are automatically blamed on Israel. Another is by neglecting to provide comparative data that would illustrate the difficulty of preventing civilian casualties while fighting terrorists in a dense urban environment, like the fact that the proportion of children killed in U.S. airstrikes in Iraq was much higher, at 39 percent.

....Fan international hatred of Israel by recruiting child soldiers whose deaths will be reported worldwide as “Israel kills innocent children.” And as long as the international community keeps collaborating with this strategy, Hamas will have every incentive to keep right on recruiting child soldiers.

more...
http://evelyncgordon.com/how-the-world-encourages-hamas-to-recruit-child-soldiers/

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
63. Gaza Children’s Festival Shows Toddlers Being Trained to Murder Jews
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 08:51 PM
Apr 2016

Video included at link.

A Gaza children's festival features a play which shows the ISIS-like brainwashing of toddlers now being used in the Palestinian Authority.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/gaza-childrens-festival-shows-toddlers-being-trained-to-murder-jews-video/2016/04/26/


 

shira

(30,109 posts)
65. VIDEO: Palestinian Children's Play Featuring Murder
Mon May 9, 2016, 10:53 AM
May 2016
It is one of the great tragedies of the Middle East conflict that young Palestinian children are still raised to see Israeli Jews as bloodthirsty monsters that must be killed at all costs.

In fact, one of the more important stipulations of the so-called “Oslo Accords” (though Western power brokers all but ignore it) was that both sides educate their populations for peaceful coexistence, to ensure that future generations do NOT carry on in conflict.

Such demonstrations of violence as seen below are nowhere to be found in the Israeli schools attended by my children. In fact, the younger children have only a very fleeting realization that there is a conflict at all.

They are not taught to hate Arabs. In fact, some of their teachers are Arabs. They are certainly not taught to engage in violence. And even when these schools participate in campaigns to support the Israeli security forces, no mention, negative or otherwise, is made of the enemy against whom those soldiers and police are protecting us.

By-and-large, the Israeli education system is making a real effort (and a successful one in most cases) to prepare the next generations for peaceful coexistence with their Arab neighbors. Or, at the very least, to NOT prepare them for a future of hatred and violence.

As demonstrated by the following video, the same sadly cannot be said of most schools in the Palestinian education system.

Indoctrinating young impressionable minds in such a way is nothing short of child abuse.


http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/29135/Default.aspx#.VysyQuz_0Eo.twitter

Video at link.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
66. Palestinian Child Exploitation – 10-year old “Journalist” Janna Jihad
Thu May 12, 2016, 02:38 PM
May 2016

Used as a media prop by Tamimi clan since age 5, now promoted as child “journalist” by al-Jazeera and others

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/05/palestinian-child-exploitation-10-year-old-journalist-janna-jihad/

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»Palestinian Child Soldier...