Looking for ways to lower my electric bill

[OnionPatch]

I just had a house built with a standard heat pump and electric appliance hookups, no gas. My electric bills have been high, which I'm sure is nothing other people don't experience but I'm on a retirement budget and wish I had looked into alternatives.

I'm coming into a small inheritance and would like to use some of it to invest in something that will help. From what I read it would be inefficient to have electric appliances with a solar system but it's too late for that now. The cost of the solar, plus changing out all my electric appliances is over my budget.

I have 8 acres of solid woods and enough trees to keep a fireplace going indefinitely, if managed, so I've been thinking of getting a fireplace installed and heating with wood. A fireplace might at least warm the great room, where we spend most of our time. I have space to have a fireplace installed but not enough floor space for a wood stove. However, I keep reading that fireplaces are inefficient. Maybe it would be a waste of money to have one installed. Can anyone give me some insight into heating with a fireplace? Are there types of fireplaces that are more efficient? Thanks!

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. While they lived in Galena...

Friends of mine had a wood burning stove. They had 5 acres of woods on their property as well. Propane was their heating source. With the wood burning stove, they stretched out their propane usage for heating. The water heater and stove used gas.

You might want to look into a stove for your great room.

[OnionPatch]

5. Thanks. I'm thinking it might help some, at least.

Some fireplaces have blowers on them. That's got to help. I wouldn't think the blower would use too much electric, but I'm just not sure.

[SheltieLover]

2. Look into a ductlesss mini split.

Not sure what your climate is like, but it works exceptionally well & my elect bill is rarely over $100. In fact, it was $72 for last month.

If you look into them, I highly rec a Mitsubishi. Hands down the best on the market.

They come with fully charged line sets, so you can easily install yourself, altgough you will need to vac the air out of it.

Well worth the investment. So much heat & cooling is lost through ductwork, it's surreal.

Good luck with this!

[OnionPatch]

3. Wow, I have never heard of these

I just googled and it sounds really interesting. I have some reading to do. Thanks!

[SheltieLover]

10. I hadn't either.

My grandson is an hvac genius!

Perhaps only good for warmer days in severe climates.

And you need to choose to optimize for heating or cooling. I chose cooling because this place is a hot, muggy hellhole most of the year, yet gets down below zero sometimes in winter.

Depends, too on layout of house & how it is placed. I have an outdoor unit & an indoor unit paced facing the hallway to the bedrooms, a bit off-center to hallway. (1250 sq ft ranch)


I keep it about 65 in summer & 75-80 in winter in my home. Very few days here heating or cooling are not needed, but on those daysl, I usually run the dehumidify function. So mine is rummimg 24)/7, 365 just about. It is an inveryer unit, so it literally runs constantly. Amazing really that it is so much cheaper to run than a ducted unit. So muxch energy loss thru ducts!

[Think. Again.]

42. Minisplits ar good now..

I remember when minisplits, also called heat pumps, didn't provide much help north of South Carolina but they have improved drastically and now can be used as primary heat systems even in the north.

They pump the heat the two ways, so no more need for air conditioning chemicals.

And then there's this which might apply depending on ...things:

"New federal income tax credits are available through 2032 providing up to $3,200 annually to lower the cost of energy efficient home upgrades by up to 30 percent. Improvements such as installing heat pumps, heat pump water heaters, insulation, doors and windows, as well as electrical panel upgrades, home energy audits and more, are covered by the tax credits and can help families save money on their monthly energy bills for years to come."

From: https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits

On a side note, I've started placing cheap solar landscape LED lights near windows in a lot of spots inside the house. Gives me basic lighting without paying for wattage.

[OnionPatch]

6. Oh, and I'm in Virginia.

so we get a little snow and some cold in the winter but usually it's not sub-freezing for too long.

[SheltieLover]

11. Hellhole TN here

My unit is good down to -15F but it is not running near max efficiency at that temp. I had al choice: optimize for cooling or heat. I chose the former.

[OnionPatch]

13. You're probably a bit further south

I'm in the Shenandoah Valley, so it does get cold here. I know it also gets hot in summer but I get cold easily and don't mind being hot as much. I might choose to optimize for heat. But I need to read up on it all first.

[SheltieLover]

17. Definitely do your homework.

I would not rec the unit I bought, although it has done very well for me. Some quality & programming issues.

Look at Mitsubishi.

Have contractors come out & do free estimate for Mitsubishi. They will size it for you & tell you where they would place the indoor & outdoor units. Line sets are typically only up to 25' between the indoor & outdoor units.

It gets good & cold here. Way too cold for how horrifically hellish hot & humid most of the year is. 😓

We also put up a wall with a doir to an extra room leading to garage. The unit draws very little power.

Be aware, too, that 410A refrigerant patent is about to expire. Translation: EPAl will most definitely outlaw it.

Most countries use propane, but multinationals can't get a stranglehold on it. Unclear what inefficient nightmare they will order to be used... 😏

[OnionPatch]

20. Thanks. I'm definitely going to look into this.

[SheltieLover]

21. Look at blocking off the main living area you most commonly use, too.

Putting up a wall is inexpensive, considering elect costs will continue to rise with more & more people buying & charging elect cars.

You tube is a great source of info. Gray Furnace Man has great posts & is exceptionally knowledgable. 👍

[SheltieLover]

22. Since your home is huge, you will need more than 1 indoor unit for sure.

Just to be clear.

There are outdoor units that can handle multiple indoor units, but I personally would prefer redundancy with separate units.

[OnionPatch]

24. No, the living area isn't huge. It's about 1500 sq. ft.

It's the unfinished upstairs that makes it big. But the upstairs is completely unfinished and I don't heat it up there.

[SheltieLover]

25. Well then, depending upon floor plan, you should be good!

[SheltieLover]

26. Is upstairs closed off?

Adding a door to stairway will definitely save heating $.

Just a thought.

[OnionPatch]

31. Yes. It's closed off. The door seems to keep the heat downstairs pretty well.

[SheltieLover]

32. Good!

[randr]

4. The best investment you could make is more insulation

Check your attic, if you have one to see if more can be added. If you have exposed stem walls or slab edge outside, they can be insulated on the exterior. Windows are now much more efficient, but replacements come at a high price.
Seal all gaps, replace door seals and thresholds if needed. Adding additional insulation to walls requires new siding.
There are services that will provide thermal evaluations in most states and give you the best alternatives for you situation.
I had a company blow in an additional 6" of insulation in my attic, that came with rebates and tax deductions. It worked!

[OnionPatch]

8. The house is brand new so windows and doors are good.

The attic is huge and only insulated on the floor. It's as cold up there as it is outside. I was told this was enough but surely insulating the roof would help. You're right that I should look into that. Thanks.

[SheltieLover]

12. Radiant heat foil barrier helped here significantly

Esp in summer with horrific heat.

Energy bill dropped significantly.

Foil roll was around $130, nearly enough to do entire attic.

All you need is a staple gun to put it up.

Someone here on DU said it caused poor cell service, but I've not noticed that.

[OnionPatch]

15. My attic is HUGE.

It's actually an unfinished second story with proper attic space above that, should I finish it out. (It's all open space now.) It might take a lot to cover it. Will it help for heat?

[SheltieLover]

18. I would think it would help some for heat as foil is double sided &

reflects both ways.

Make sure you billow it to create air space.

I'd do the real attic, not upstairs.

[3Hotdogs]

23. Agree. Do the attic joists. As said above, make sure to leave breathing space under the sheathing

wood.

It will cool in summer and preserve heat in winter. Also check the outside caulking on the windows.

My daughter has a pellet stove which she loves. However, it also needs a couple of humidifiers in the house 12 rooms.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. Considerations

Investments need comprehensive cost-benefit analyses.

Research: seems to me I've read of Swedish fireplace/hearths with massive masonry that absorb heat and stay warm all winter under a low fire.

Consider: an outside air intake for the fireplace-stove, so you're not exhausting warm air and have good draft to reduce smoking.

Consider the cost of such an investment. Would you be as well off in a Dividend Achiever growth fund? Cutting firewood is work, it involves risk, it involves cost of saws, maintenance, splitting and hauling. You need wood storage, wood must be seasoned and dry, dry, dry. Consider the cost of cleaning the flue, maintaining the chimney, flashing, and roof. Would you be better off timbering parts of the property and banking the profit after taxes.

Consider the assumptions made on each point, and this list is not comprehensive for sure. Re-evaluate over time, several times. We think we're going to save a bundle. We tend to underestimate the peripheral costs and risks. Will we be willing and able to do this wood extraction and burning work over decades and into our old age? If winters become warmer, is the project worth it? Could we achieve electric savings in other ways - smaller frying pans, cold-brewed overnight coffee instead of perked each day, convection toaster-oven instead of full kitchen stove for all our dinners?

[OnionPatch]

9. Thanks!

You make excellent points! Air intake is a factor, I know. And you're right about the work of keeping a fireplace maintained and wood stocked. I've done it before. It helped keep me in shape but I was younger then. I do have some help from other household members.

As far as timbering some of the lot, I would love to (sustainably) but was under the impression that 8 acres would be too small to interest anyone. I'm not even sure how to find someone, but that's a whole different question, lol.

[taxi]

14. An old-style heatilator may be what you are looking for

When the fireplace is used occasionally the heating effect is not realized, it is when the block around the flues finally get warm that the heat will pour out of the top vents. The link below has a diagram of their model which appears to be more efficient than the do-it-yourself builds, however it is possible that the diy types may produce more consistent temperatures for a longer period.

The diagram with the header "Old Style Heatilator" shows air vents above and below the firebox and include a ventilation fan - one's without a fan also work well. (please note that the diagram does NOT show the separate flue from the firebox up the chimney - the open space around the firebox that illustrates the airflow is not in contact with the fumes from the fire; there is a flue that goes up the chimney from the firebox.

https://www.northlineexpress.com/all-about-old-style-heatilators.html

[OnionPatch]

16. Yes, something like this is sort of what I had in mind.

I'd have to have someone install it so maybe they'd know how to do something like this. Thanks!

[taxi]

19. Yup, an experienced mason would be able to look at your suggestions and fix you right up.

[2naSalit]

27. Invest in one of these...

A lot less construction to fit it into your home. I can attest that a smallish one will sufficiently heat a 2 story, 8 room, 2 bath house when it's -50F. Very efficient on wood consumption, the best value wood stove I have ever seen and I have seen plenty and relied on plenty. I have also seen these in use in several homes of size, venting is what you need to figure out but they are great, if I had a house, I'd put one of these in.

https://www.jotul.com/

[OnionPatch]

33. I don't know if I have the floor space.

There's a cranny in the livingroom but I'm not sure it's big enough for a stove. I was thinking a small fireplace would just fit flush. Anything sticking out into the room is going to take up too much floor space. Maybe I need to have a fireplace/stove expert come and see what can be done. Something like this would be perfect, though.

[2naSalit]

35. Someone who could...

Help you evaluate this would be a good idea. If there's any way you could put something like this in is my recommendation, though there are surely other good options.

[cachukis]

28. To repeat, attic insulation. We put on a reflective white metal

roof over insulation pads. We filled attic with blown insulation with electric company rebate. Checked walls and found some had no insulation. Florida home built in 1972.
Summer electric bill reduced from $240/ month to $135.
15 years later, nearly paid for $23k metal roof. And will last 50 years for the people we sold to.
Insulation, close off unused rooms.

[House of Roberts]

29. My older stepson and his wife got a two story house

with no way to separate the upstairs from the downstairs. To get the upstairs comfortable in summer, the downstairs is too cold. To get the downstairs comfortable in the winter, the upstairs is too hot, so the downstairs stays too cold then too.

I use a Fisher Baby Bear woodstove which is located in the center of my house. I'm using it today in fact. This is probably the last time I'll use it until late fall. Keep in mind if you go the wood heating route, that this year's firewood must have been cut last year and cured for a year. Cured wood splits much easier also. I have several days worth of cutting to length, a pile of wood I'll split in the fall. I mainly use the woodstove to supplement my regular heat when it stays cold for a couple of days or more.

I don't recommend a fireplace for heat as they don't radiate enough, and can actually suck more heat up the chimney than they provide. They are nice to look at, but that's about it.

[OnionPatch]

39. Thanks. Luckily, I have wood drying now.

There are a lot of dead, downed trees out there from the initial lot clearing that have been drying since last summer. We're going to start cutting it to firewood length as soon as the weather clears up some. We'll use it in our outside firepit if nothing else.

I'd really prefer a wood stove but it would have to be tiny to fit in the fireplace space I have. If it sticks out into the room too much, it will set my coffee table on fire, lol. It's a small space. I was thinking a little fireplace with some sort of vent or blower might work. I guess I just need to have some fireplace people come look and see what can be done in my situation.

Yes, I'd like to do like you do and keep the main room warmer in the winter. I could keep the thermostat turned way down most of the time that way. Thankfully, there are no open ceilings, lofts or anything in my house. It's just a standard two-story with 8 ft. ceilings and a door at the bottom of the stairway.

[RicROC]

30. Alladin lamps

While a small device which could not heat your house, an Alladin Brand Mantle lamp will provide heat for a small room.
I own 3 of them, in case of emergency, but so far, have not been forced to use any of them.
They are much better choices than keeping candles around for winter blackouts.

[sinkingfeeling]

34. Why not look into a wood burning furnance?

[OnionPatch]

36. Well, I did a little.

Do you mean the units that stand outside? They cost more than I want to spend. I'd love a nice wood stove if only I had more floor space. But the room is small and the layout is awkward.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. There are some that are inside in the $2500 to $3500 range. I'd rather have one outside.

[Martin68]

38. We have a very efficient wood stove with a catalytic converter. Fireplaces heat mainly by heat

radiating directly through the air from burning wood. The vast majority of the heat goes up the chimney, sucking up warm air in the room along with it. A cast iron wood stove burns wood very efficiently because once the fire gets going, you can close the intake vents to just a crack. More importantly, the fire in a cast iron stove (or one made of soapstone or other material) heats the metal to 500 degrees or more, and the metal radiates that heat into the room for hours. We keep a brass dragon filled with water on top of the stove to humidify the room. It's so efficient that we sometimes need to open a window to cool the house down a little. The wood in a fireplace burns at a furious pace because it has so much air available. Logs burn far longer and more efficiently in a wood stove.

When we lose electricity, I'll keep the fire going all night by getting up a couple of times during the night to add some wood. The wood burns down to extremely hot embers, and even when there are just embers covered in ash after a few hours, adding some wood starts the fire right back up again. We've kept it going for days that way.

Our wood stove has large glass windows in the door, so we have a wonderful view of the fire burning. Part of the pleasure of a fireplace is the psychological warmth provided by the sight of that beautiful fire burning, and we have that with our wood stove, too.

[patricia92243]

40. Having lots of trees avaiable is only a tiny part of it. Chopping the trees down,

waiting for them to season enough to use as firewood, chop the limbs off, then chop into pieces that will fit into fireplace. Then, haul the wood into your house, then haul the ashes out when you are done. A LOT of work involved - and that is just one tree.

You need to be in very good physical condition to do all this and hope to stay that way for years to come.

[OnionPatch]

41. This is all true.

I have done all of this when we lived in previous homes with fireplaces. We used to harvest standing dead trees from the local National Forest (by permit) every year. I have some younger family members that will help me and I'm still in good shape for my age. I'm mainly just looking to shave a little $$ off my electric bill during the coldest months.

[womanofthehills]

43. You don't have to change over electric appliances with solar

You can have your solar system connected to the grid - so your meter spins backwards. Yrs ago, when I was off grid, it was not recommended to heat with electric but if your system is grid connected - no problem.

I only have a 2000 watt solar system but it makes a difference in my electric bills I'm billed for zero watts in the summer and it probably reduces my bill by a third in the winter. Also, extra summer credits can carry over to winter.

As many south windows as you can squeeze in lowers heating costs big time. My whole south side is windows (NM sunshine) - no extra heat needed if the sun is out and it's below zero.

I know the new wood stoves keep particulates at bay, but if I were to get a fireplace installed I would want to know how much it would pollute the air.

The Bad News About Traditional Fireplaces

As much as we love the nostalgia of wood-burning fireplaces, they pose numerous risks to the environment and your health. Since it is an open fire, they release small levels of toxic particles into the atmosphere. Some of the compounds they release (like nitrogen oxide and chlorinated dioxins) contribute to environmental hazards like smog and acid rain. Additionally, the wood smoke and gases can also harm your heart and lungs. https://www.thebioflame.com/blog/environmentally-friendly-fireplaces-ranked/