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Caribbeans

(975 posts)
1. And this BS about not being able to build a brand new network of H2 stations...
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:09 PM
Dec 2023

is proved wrong by ... GERMANY - where H2 costs less than half of what it does right now in CA. But so far there has been no official explanation as to exactly why.

Shell Hydrogen Station, Cloppenburger Straße 154, 26133 Oldenburg, Germany | EUR 13.85 / kg

Caribbeans

(975 posts)
2. BMW VP: Hydrogen Stations "Not Rocket Science" - our uptimes & reliability numbers way higher than California
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:21 PM
Dec 2023


A global laughingstock. That's H2 today in the USA

NickB79

(19,621 posts)
9. $14/kg, ouch
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 07:35 PM
Dec 2023

I was told here recently that 1 kg of H2 is roughly equivalent to 1 gallon of gasoline.

$140 for the equivalent of a tank of gas for my Prius? No thank you.

NNadir

(34,659 posts)
3. BASF in Germany Shut It's Hydrogen Production Plant Because It Couldn't Get Natural Gas From Putin.
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:23 PM
Dec 2023
BASF is cutting back at its main site in Germany

Subtitle:

The company says high energy prices are forcing it to shut plants at its Ludwigshafen complex


Some text from the article:

High energy prices have already struck a blow to European competitiveness in chemical manufacturing. They are now prompting BASF to lay off thousands of workers and shut down sections of its flagship facility in Ludwigshafen, Germany.

The company, the world’s largest chemical maker, revealed the closures when it announced 2022 financial results on Feb. 24. Sales increased 11%, to $92.5 billion, but this was because of higher selling prices. The company’s sales volumes declined by 7% last year.

BASF posted a loss of about $660 million for the year, mostly owing to charges of $6.7 billion related to its decision to withdraw its Wintershall Dea oil and gas affiliate completely from Russia. Without those charges, the firm’s profits would have been roughly flat compared to 2021.

The war in Ukraine has sharply reduced natural gas supplies in Europe and boosted BASF’s energy bill on the continent by $2.9 billion in 2022. In Germany, overall chemical industry production decreased by 12% last year.

“The past year has taught us all a harsh lesson: peace and economic stability must never be taken for granted,” BASF chairman Martin Brudermüller said in remarks to stock analysts.

Along with its earnings announcement, BASF detailed a round of cost cutting, outlined last October, aimed at saving more than $500 million annually. As part of the program, BASF says it will shed about 2,600 positions, 2.3% of its global total. The program, which BASF will execute this year and next, will focus on nonmanufacturing operations such as services, administration, and R&D.


Here's another article on the topic from a few months back from a more mainstream publication:

BASF to cut 2,600 jobs as energy crisis puts Germany on track for recession

By shutting down its Haber Bosch plants - BASF was founded on coal reformation to make hydrogen for ammonia manufacture - cut off a major supply of ammonia for Africa for fertilizers.

Germany routinely has the 2nd dirtiest electricity in Europe as measured in grams CO2/kWh, because it is heavily dependent on coal when it's expensive solar and wind junk is experiencing Dunkelflaute according to the data which can be regularly checked at The Electricity Map

I check it regularly, with a sense of disgust, because "green" in Germany is the color of soot and coal ash. I despise fossil fuel dependent economies, of which Germany is one of the worst. (Poland is usually use, but Poland is on a path of moving in the opposite direction of Germany; it plans to build oodles of nuclear plants.)

Of course, fossil fuel sales people and their "I agree with you" sales bots are in the business of promoting the use of dangerous fossil fuels by greenwashing them as "hydrogen." This is a very successful and slick marketing technique, of course, because many people believe the nonsense statement that hydrogen is "green," even though it is overwhelmingly made by the very dirty steam reforming of dangerous fossil fuels.

A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

Whether it's whining about tritium at Fukushima, or destroying exergy to rebrand fossil fuels as "hydrogen" fossil fuel interests are very slick in promoting the coal, gas, and oil industries, as slick as cigarette companies were in the 1950's were in promoting their brands by advertising that doctors smoked their brands.

It offends decency of course, but let's not accuse the fossil fuel interests of having a sense of decency. At long last, they have none.

Caribbeans

(975 posts)
5. In the future, most hydrogen will be made with renewable energy
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:32 PM
Dec 2023

for the 357th time, just because something was done one way in the past does not mean that is the way it must be done in the future







NNadir

(34,659 posts)
7. Bullshit. This disgusting soothsaying has been going on for 50 years.
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:37 PM
Dec 2023

The fucking planet is on fire NOW, and all the bullshit advertising videos with vague and and frankly dishonest rhetoric from fossil fuel interests here and elsewhere has not changed that reality.

There may be rubes stupid enough to buy into this crap, but every hydrogen station on this planet NOW represents the destruction of exergy from dirty fossil fuels.

Think. Again.

(17,930 posts)
6. K&R
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:33 PM
Dec 2023

Thanks for posting those videos!

The U.S. is so far behind on all things clean energy, I worry about which nation we will have to suck up to next after we no longer have to suck up to saudi arabia.

NBachers

(18,129 posts)
8. I'm over at the Toyota dealership. The used Mirai is going for a low price.
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 05:42 PM
Dec 2023

I think it’s because of difficulty in finding fill-up locations.

NickB79

(19,621 posts)
10. H2 costs $36/kg in California right now
Sat Dec 16, 2023, 07:36 PM
Dec 2023

Per a post Caribbeans made here recently.

That's equivalent to paying $360 for a 10-gal tank of gasoline. Might have just a little bit to do with their low prices.

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