GM's hydrogen 'power cubes' will be used in cement mixers and terminal tractors

[Caribbeans]

Andrew J. Hawkins | Dec 7, 2023

General Motors struck a deal with commercial vehicle manufacturer Autocar to use its hydrogen fuel-cell technology to power a range of heavy-duty work vehicles.

Hydrogen fuel cells — which use compressed hydrogen as their fuel and release water vapor as its only emission — have been in development for decades. GM has condensed its Hydrotec-branded system into a “power cube” encompassing 300 individual hydrogen fuel cells, the current generation of which can put out 80 kW of net power.

The automaker has said it wants to use the cubes for a variety of appliances, including mobile generators and temporary EV chargers. And now that list has grown to include vocational vehicles.

Autocar, based in Birmingham, Ala., is a 126-year-old manufacturer of Class 7 and 8 work vehicles, including garbage trucks, cement mixers, terminal tractors, and more...more
https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/7/23991373/gm-hydrotec-autocar-power-cube-vocational-vehicle

[Think. Again.]

1. Slowly, veeeeeerrrry slowly, we are moving forward....

....but we need to stop moving forward so slowly and start moving much more quickly toward eliminating the CO2 emissions we cause by burning fossil fuels.

One step at a time is not do-able anymore, we've slow-walked the transition away from fossil fuels for too long and now we have no choice except to go full speed ahead with whatever technology we DO have ready. Now.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. "Off grid with hydrogen"? Where did the hydrogen come from?

Did Mr Off Grid run a hamster wheel powered electrolysis unit for hydrogen production?

Or did he get his hydrogen from a supplier on the grid, or a grid-connected electric generation utility that had excess electrical capacity? Hydrogen that had to be trucked from source to Mr Off Grid.

It is possible that the hydrogen came from a bank of solar cells, but then it would be much more efficient to charge the car directly.

(sorry, I don't watch videos unless strictly necessary due to my reading speed being much higher than my listening speed)

[orthoclad]

8. "charge the car directly"?

I'd rather have the fuel cells than giant batteries, which are problematic in many ways.

The lithium economy that we're now plugged into is highly destructive. A polluting extractive resource prone to monopoly practices which has already resulted in the legal government of Bolivia being overthrown in a coup over lithium, among other social disturbances. Musk crowed that this resulted in his getting all the lithium he wants.

The lithium economy fits the petroleum model well. We can't avoid it now, but we need to minimize it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Directly rather than H2 intermediate step, which is less efficient. Hydrogen does have energy use

Hydrogen can be very useful in some circumstances, but it is not an energy source. It is an intermediary, an energy carrier.

I wonder if H2 might solve the charging problem, increasing the range of green vehicles by making them bluer. Problem with batteries (lithium / sodium) is that they take quite a while to charge and are very expensive to replace.

H2 could be sold at gas stations (real gas, not gasoline) by canisters that could be swapped out as fast as pumping gasoline. Such infrastructure would greatly extend range, in the sense that though the range on one 'charge' of H2 would likely be less than one charge of electricity, H2 "fill up" would be so fast it would be convenient.

[orthoclad]

12. Yes, "filling the tank" will

fit gas-station habits much better than charging a battery will.

There are schemes for battery quick-charging stations, but just imagine the load on the grid when millions of cars are quick-charging around rush hour. The instantaneous loads will be huge. We'll have grid failures. With hydrogen fuel, the grid load could be optimized by either using off-grid sources for electrolysis, or by tapping the grid in off-hours.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. In the early days (teens) there were ideas to swap out batteries in cars at 'service stations'

... but the batteries are so heavy and tend to be voluminous, that it would require heavy automated equipment and tremendous standardization -- not going to happen any time soon. If it were a thing, then the batteries could be charged overnight, ready for use the next day.

But hydrogen canisters could be handled more easily. Even so, it is unlikely to be 'self-serve'. Fueling (without canisters) could be self-serve but has it's own issues, like no canopies at "gas stations" (H2 is lighter than air). I think they are surmountable.

Note that H2 is not good for long term storage: leaks too easily. It also has corrosion issues, but those are being dealt with, I think.

[NNadir]

3. Wow. An absurd scheme to make the impact of climate change inducing concrete even worse.

The facts remain: A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

Concrete manufacture is already responsible for around 6 Gt of the world's climate emissions.

Assessing the Relative Climate Impact of Carbon Utilization for Concrete, Chemical, and Mineral Production. Dwarakanath Ravikumar, Gregory A. Keoleian, Shelie A. Miller, and Volker Sick Environmental Science & Technology 2021 55 (17), 12019-12031

Now there are people engaged in cheap marketing to make the impact even worse, by destroying even more exergy by putting filthy hydrogen in the line.

It's obscene.

No sense of decency, none.

[Mickju]

4. Haven't seen you for a while.

Glad to see you are still here.

[NNadir]

5. I mostly write in the Science forum now.

This forum is not for me now, and probably never was. I oppose fossil fuels and I believe wilderness should be protected, not rendered into industrial parks.

On occasion however, I do drop in when "bait and switch" fossil fuel ads run here. I probably shouldn't, but I just can't help myself sometimes.

A Giant Climate Lie: When they're selling hydrogen, what they're really selling is fossil fuels.

[littlemissmartypants]

6. Thanks for sharing this. ❤️

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. What building material(s) would you replace cement with? (yes, it is a problem)

[NNadir]

14. I am objecting to hydrogen stupidity, not the need for concrete.

Under certain circumstances, not observed, cement manufacture can be made carbon negative.

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. If you're interested in vintage hydrogen...

[orthoclad]

9. I don't do videos, but hydrogen has

been around a long time. Since the 60s, spacecraft have used hydrogen fuel cells. The use of hydrogen is not new or radical, just suppressed (until the oil runs out?). Think of it: a fuel so flexible it can be used in small fuel cells to make electricity, or in boilers for cargo ships.

Thanks for the links, even though I don't watch googletube. What year were they published?

[OKIsItJustMe]

15. They are parts 1 and 2 of a documentary made in 1978

Here’s the full thing: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127171097

As you suggest, it’s nothing terribly new. They make reference to the Project Gemini fuel cells near the end. Most of it deals with using hydrogen as a fuel for use in internal combustion engines, or jet engines. They point out advantages and disadvantages of using hydrogen, rather than petroleum in these applications.

Since it was made during the time of the oil crises, they do suggest that “when the oil runs out,” we’ll need some other fuel to use to power our stuff, but that “hydrogen” will never be as cheap as fossil fuels.

Near the end, they also point out that a growing number of scientists believe that the build-up of CO₂ is going to be a real problem in the relatively near future, and suggest that a shift to hydrogen, generated by nuclear or renewable sources (e.g. solar) may be necessitated by that growing threat.

The fundamentals are largely unchanged between then and now. Efficiencies are improved.

[orthoclad]

16. Thanks. I also recall a 60 Minutes

show from the same period demonstrating a hydrogen-powered car. IIRC, the H was stored onboard as a metal hydride. To show the safety of the fuel, they fired armor-piercing rounds at the fuel tank. Maybe someone can dig up that episode.

The petrobarons realized that they had overplayed their hand and stimulated research into fossil alternatives, so they opened the taps once they had their boy Reagan in power.

[OKIsItJustMe]

17. That sounds like this NOVA

e.g. they fire an armor piercing round into a container of charged metal hydrides. They also knock the top off of a cylinder.