Alabama's two-year college chancellor wants to make college courses free for high school students

[Redfairen]

Alabama's two-year college chancellor wants to make enrollment in community college courses free for high school students. Speaking today at the Economic Development Association of Alabama's winter conference, Community College System Chancellor Mark Heinrich said he is working with legislators to bring a bill as early as the 2013 session that would make dual enrollment in community college courses free to high school students.

"What I'm suggesting at this point is that state of Alabama work out some sort of situation that would allow any high school student who is interested in dual enrollment to participate in that," he said.

.......

"The suggestion from some of the folks at the high schools is that we would go from about 10 percent participation to maybe 40 or 50 percent in dual enrollment," he said.

.......

"We've spent a decade preparing students for a test rather than preparing students for adulthood and for a career and college and a lifetime of learning," he said.


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/01/two-year_college_chancellor_wa.html

[Kalidurga]

1. It should be free to recent graduates as well.

Some people for whatever reason won't be able to do this or they aren't sure until after graduation what kind of degree they want. And it should be national. No one should have to pay for the first two years of college. And in health class of all places this was pointed out. A great deal of high school graduates aren't prepared for college level classes and have to take prep courses in English, Math, and Science. I just barely squeaked by getting my degree if I had to take algebra it wouldn't have happened. I took logic instead. I barely got a C in my required science classes. So, what happens is a lot of college students need nearly a year just to get to college level classes.

[HiPointDem]

5. it should be free to everyone.

[Kalidurga]

8. I won't argue that principle.

But, I think it will be easier going in increments. So, I totally support what they are doing here. Later they can add recent grads. Then they can add everyone else. I am older much older and I will be returning to college in the fall, would have been next week, but that isn't allowed for some reason with my program. The point is I would rather take on debt for myself in my advance age rather than saddle young people who may or may not have children with the same kind of debt.

Everyone's story is different though. Someone my age might have young children as well, perhaps we should take that into consideration

[kestrel91316]

2. Heinrich to be fired in 3....2....1....

Seriously. This won't end well for him. It's Alabama, and his policy stands to benefit those icky poor black people along with whites who actually deserve free college courses.

[exboyfil]

3. It is in Iowa with some restrictions

The biggest being that a comparable course cannot be offered at the High School. This is intepreted quite loosely so you won't get a college level speech course paid for if a High School equivalent exists (even if it does not grant college credit).

High Schoolers have several ways to access college courses (including university courses):

1. Dual enroll in which the course is taught by the High School teachers but college credit is granted at the local community college.
2. AP Courses (not a college course but can get college credit by a year end test on the subject).
3. PSEO (Post Secondary Education Options) in which the student brings a description of the desired course to the counselor, and the counselor approves/disapproves taking the course.

Financially PSEO is hard on community colleges. My daughter's Calculus textbook would cost $40 to rent (would have been more last semester) and it is provided free of charge. Her Physics book would cost $120 to rent for a semester, and it is also provided free of charge. Each of these 4 credit hour courses only have a $250 tuition that the local school district pays to the community college. So the community college gets $500 for providing approximately $1400 of services.

I don't buy the 40-50% participation. Participation rates for PSEO/Dual Enroll/AP are not that high at our High School. Many kids are not able to take college classes until they complete their senior year. It makes little sense to take what would be viewed as remedial classes (for example a class before Precalculus) at the college when the High School should be offering this class.

[MountainLaurel]

4. And who is going to teach these courses?

More adjuncts making minimum wage with no benefits? Or will current instructors have to increase their courseloads? Because I would bet my house that he doesn't plan on increasing college budgets to handle the increased demand.

[duffyduff]

6. Not necessary. Bring back vocational education to high schools. n/t

[exboyfil]

7. Depending on the demand and the proximity of the college

to the high school, it might make more sense to share facilities for certain vocational classes. Our high schoolers working on a machining certification eventually go off to the community college (we would only have one or two students per semester on some expensive pieces of equipment like a five axis milling machine).

Our students do Metal Tech I and II and MIG at the High School.

The definition of a vocational class is also changing. My daughter is excited about her Computer Integrated Manufacturing class next semester - they have a 3d printer, a small NC milling machine, and a laser cutter.

[MichiganVote]

9. I can get behind that but not for liberal arts courses.

[Igel]

10. Not the target audience.

We have a whole lot of kids in high school that are ready for college classes. Many are scared of them or don't think they could hack them. Others are ready for them and know it.

Dual-credit handles this. It's not usually for vo-tech courses, but to serve the top 10% of the student body.

A school can have AP classes, in which there's a single high-stakes test in order to make the AP credit available.

A school can have IB classes, structured differently from AP classes but still giving kids a step up on college.

A school can have dual-credit classes, so that kids actually take a community college class while in high school and receive college credit.

Texas requires schools to offer a range of advanced high-school courses, and dual-credit classes can help satisfy that requirement.

You're thinking of community colleges as technical and vocational certificate-granting institutions. That they are, but for a lot of students they're sort of starter colleges, "gateway schools".

[exboyfil]

11. Dual Credit could turn out to be even more

rigorous than the community college equivalent. I think very highly of the College Physics course that is taught by one of our high school teachers. My daughter did not take it (she is taking Calculus based Physics instead). My daughter has the Project Lead the Way Design class right now at the High School and that grants credit for the engineering freshman design course.


A friend of mine who taught both university and community college courses said that the community college administration got on her case for being too hard. She taught the community college and university class in the same fashion (Statistics, Math for Decision Making, Precalculus). Between that and the ridicously low pay, she has elected to stop teaching community college classes.

So far my daughter has taken several community college courses, I have found that they have acceptable rigor (the Calculus I course had the same expectation as my Calculus I at Purdue 30 years ago).

As said in the article community college courses are a marvelous way to save money. I much prefer them to AP (my daughter is not doing any AP courses). My daughter will actually have almost her first two years of engineering done while in High School (I have had to pay for a number of the classes, but the High School will be paying for 10 of the most expensive over four semesters). Since she is planning on being a mechanical engineer like me, I will be able to send her off to college with confidence that she has a firm foundation.

My daughter's college courses (except for Chemistry over the summer between high school Soph and Jr year) have been online. She has taken Speech (she recorded her speeches in front of an audience), Calculus I, C++, Geography, and English Composition online. She now has Calculus based Physics I, Calculus II, and Engineering Analysis online. The advantage of online is that she can control her time. Last year she was taking four finals and even five tests in the same day. That will never happen again.