What if you offer very good education to students but they don't want it?

[no_hypocrisy]

I'm a substitute teacher in a school district that is semi-urban. Not quite suburban. Multi-cultural. Preschool to Grade 8.

Somewhere around Grade 5, I've noticed students (not all) become indifferent and then become almost hostile to curriculum. By the time they're in Grade 8, many of them don't do classwork or homework. They take out their cellphones, and wait for dismissal.

The teachers are doing their best but they also accept the reality. They know there will be students they can't reach. Some kids will work, study, and advance in life. The others, not so much.

I think about pre-Brown v. Board of Education where the same demographic would have been denied the right to an education. What I mean is the ability to read, write, calculate, and reason. The students don't seem to want that.

And I don't get it.

[jimfields33]

1. Problem with education is we teach to every student

When some are smarter, average, and below average. Some want to learn and other find it a bore. In order to address this, we’d have to revamp the entire education system. I kinda like British education system where they test and you go a certain tract. Why have students sit 8 hours a day if the student is better equipped doing plumbing or something?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. To a degree, I can agree.

But shouldn't every student be able to have basic skills of reading, math calculation, critical thinking, writing?

They don't have to quote Horatio, just be able to be independent beings?

[jimfields33]

3. Probably but it's extremely difficult to do critical thinking to those who don't want

to learn. I think for math. It should be adding subtracting, division multiple and then into check book and real live skills. Sorry algebra for many is a complete waste of time. Writing is being replaced with texting and other skills. Perhaps emphasize those. Spelling should be taught but not to the point where teachers get distraught over it. Spell check does wonders.

I’m sure nothing will change though. Lol.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. Actually, I use algebra every so often.

Sometimes I re-calculate the Fahrenheit to Celsius formula. Or sometimes, I have some kind of a problem that really does need simple algebra to solve.

But you are suggesting kids be able to get away with about a fourth grade level of knowledge and skills.

Spellcheck, as good as it is, is no use if you've correctly spelled the wrong word, instead of the one you intend. I see that all the time. And knowing the difference between your and you're, they're, there, and their, its and it's is actually important.

I was at a science fiction con recently, and in a panel about writing, one member talked about her son who is trying to write, but since he almost never reads, although he does listen to audio books, simply cannot write a coherent sentence. He managed to graduate high school with minimal writing skills, but hasn't a clue they are minimal.

[delisen]

5. Limiting education limits, prevents and ends democracy

A plumber in North Korea may not need to have a deep understanding of history, geography, philosophy or civics. When you live with a sword at your back, you only need to be trained. The authoritarian dictator and their loyalists holding that sword at your back do not want to educate you to think.

If we choose to deceive ourselves into believing that education is not for everyone we are choosing to build an unequal, unfree, authoritarian society.

[jimfields33]

6. So European countries have it wrong?

They are the ones who test and put them in various tracks. Last I saw Europe is doing pretty well.

[kacekwl]

14. Being a plumber, construction or

many if not all trades require math, reading, writing and communication skills.

[Srkdqltr]

4. As the world progresses the more things we need to learn. Practical things get pushed aside.

While STEM classes are needed basic money use and cooking are overlooked. Just basic how to live, run a household, make money work , what all the gadgets in the car do. Maybe have mini classes throughout the school year on living basics. Even one on how to use your smart phone to its best advantage (I need that one) .

Maybe schooling needs to be practical some of the time? High end math and science are needed but not all are going to use it.

[delisen]

8. Please change your perspective

As a substitute teacher you are perhaps operating as a cog in an educational system machine that has not adapted to the needs of those whom it is supposed to serve.

We are born wanting to learn, we are born as thinkers. School aged children are still learning. If they are not learning in the environment in which you are teaching the fault lies not with the children the fault lies not with the children but with you or much more likely with the system in which both you and the students are embedded.

If you have a desire to teach you are a valuable member of a Democratic society.children all over our country are thirsty for knowledge. Often it is the institutions which prevent or are prevented from delivering true education.

[Scrivener7]

9. Are you a teacher, or a person in a school system?

[no_hypocrisy]

12. I am a substitute teacher, like an independent contractor.

I've been teaching since 1981.

[Scrivener7]

13. No. I'm asking the poster above me whose conclusion seems to

be that you are doing it wrong. But on the contrary, middle school is notorious.

Part of the purpose of school is to teach kids mental discipline, and those middle school years are where the transition to that takes place. Also, it becomes a hormone swamp in those years.

I have heard many, many teachers describe the same problem you are having.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. I beg to differ.

I am an independent observer. And have noticed consistent academic-social problems. At a certain grade/age, a lot of these kids feel that they know enough and don't want to do school work. They want to leave and stay in the restrooms all period is they can get away with it. They want to drop in and visit their friends in other classrooms when classes are in session. They want to socialize like they're in a cafeteria instead of a classroom.

This is not why schools were built.

[elleng]

10. It's in (or NOT in) their families.

'My ignorance is just as good as your informed self.'

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

― Isaac Asimov