Looking for examples of misandy on DU.

[Pab Sungenis]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023387176#post112

I say we rise to their challenge.

[Major Nikon]

1. 17,400

http://www.google.com/search?q=limp%2Bdick&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. I dunno, but "poor menz" has 16,000 google hits at DU.

Evidence? Proof? YMMV

[Major Nikon]

5. I'd be happy with just a consistent application of such definitions

Using a vulgar expression for female genitalia that rhymes with 4th and long would certainly earn you the "misogyny" label, yet somehow this isn't considered misandry:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22little+dick%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22limp+dick%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

Either none of it is bigoted hate speech or all of it is. When that definition changes based on the gender of the person it's directed towards, you know something is rotten in Denmark.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Here's the strange loop, boiled down to its core:

"There is RAMPANT Misogyny on DU!"

"Where?"

"...See, Told You!!!!!"

Repeat Endlessly, until the sun burns out.

[bettyellen]

27. calling out a person for derailing and disrupting a thread is misandry?

I thought it was making fun of people who were derailing a discussion - by pretending to be concerned about things they NEVER BOTHER start their own threads about. My milage varies, LOL.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. I dunno, you'll have to give me a link.

I don't remember which examples I had in mind when I posted this a month and a half ago.

In general, I think people would find the sexism obvious if DU's men were in the habit of posting, "LOL! Poor widdle wimmenz!"

[bettyellen]

29. every time I have seen - or said myself- "poor fella" was in response to men

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

chiming in to make a thread (about an issue women take seriously) about their own manly concerns- and thus completely avoid the OP.
If you haven't noticed how frequently that happens- then you haven't been paying attention. I got so fed up with it, I replied "I don't fucking care" every time I saw a man do this in a thread about women''s issues. I'm guessing I did that about 40 times in three days and got on a dozen ignore lists. Because if any of these guys actually cared- they'd say or do something with their own damned threads. It's kind of obvious it's a game. And while you are at it, give Valerie Solanas a rest, one crazy person from 40 years ago guys doesn't have jack shit to do with real life.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. I would describe a man who responds "every time" to women's problems with "I don't fucking care"

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:25 PM - Edit history (1)

As a misogynist.

I'll keep my own counsel as to how I'd describe a woman who does the same thing.

[bettyellen]

31. I'm not about to apologize for being fed up with bullshit derailing. The men who do that ought to

be fucking ashamed of themselves. Notice you won;t even address the bullshit derailing yourself- there's no defending it. They aren't fooling anyone, and it's not my job to make them feel good about acting like assholes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Here, in this forum, it's not derailing.

You have come *here* to tell us that you "don't fucking care" about men's concerns. We try to exercise a generally hands-off approach to blocking people, and I consider it your prerogative to be generally contemptuous about our interests, challenges and concerns.

But unlike elsewhere on DU, it doesn't give you any street cred here. You're not striking a blow for equality, you're just being... rude.

[bettyellen]

33. the posts you brought up by Googling whatever were not all here- we were discussing

the context of the posts you were upset about- I just tried to provide you with context. Not my fault you forgot exactly why people here were ridiculing others' concerns. I remember why quite vividly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. "I don't fucking care" doesn't need context. It is fairly unambiguous.

So... thanks for relieving anyone of the burden of searching DU for examples, you've helpfully delivered an excellent example right in the front door.

[bettyellen]

35. Nonsense. None of care about all things equally- and we all know of people who are full of

shit and litter DU with phony ass concerns for sport. And those are concerns I cannot give two fucks about. Disruptors, derailers abound, and I say fuck their nonsense- let them start their own threads.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Unfortunately, most of the comments lauding the "brilliant Swiftian satire" of V. Solanas are gone.

Bottom line is, though, I think examples of actual misandry i.e. hating of men are probably pretty rare. But then, so, are posts where people express actual misogyny, ie. hatred of women.

None of which stops someone like me from regularly being accused of "raving misogyny" in my posts or some such bullshit, nevermind that a thorough search of the shit I've actually written NEVER comes up with any examples of any such thing, namely, an expression of hatred of women.

If challenged on those assertions- which is what certain characters want, mind you; the point is to keep the scrim going, and to feed it, not to actually resolve anything- then invariably said "misogyny" boils down to "you disagreed with me and I couldn't think of a good comeback".

[nomorenomore08]

7. And real issues, as usual, take a backseat to personal beefs. No matter what "side" you're on.

"You're a misogynist!"
"No, you're a misandrist!"

"You're a racist!"
"No, you're a homophobe!"

Same basic idea either way... Of course there are examples of both anti-female and anti-male sentiment on DU, as there are pretty much anywhere, but nearly everyone starts to look like a hypocrite, in their selective outrage, after a while.

And as usual, none of this is personally directed at you, Warren. We're cool.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. I don't know if anyone has noticed

but I'm pretty much refusing to play. So, yeah.

[nomorenomore08]

9. Good idea. Probably for the best to wait it out on the sidelines.

I tend to do that myself most of the time, though there are other times when I just can't resist comment. Usually when people's arguments start to stray into MRA territory.

[RiffRandell]

10. Not nearly everyone.

[nomorenomore08]

11. You mean, without the "nearly" qualifier? You may be right, actually...

[Hayabusa]

4. I'd imagine that the destruction of Meta

took a lot of it.

[opiate69]

12. I would say this qualifies...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3453071

[nomorenomore08]

13. "These male minds" doesn't mean "*all* male minds" though. I wasn't particularly offended by that

though I fully realize I'm a sample of one whose opinion is no more important than any other individual's.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. I'm sort of curious what OTHER group of humans (in ANY context) it would be acceptable to make a

statement here (even a 'joking'- one, brilliant swiftian satire, yo!) advocating mass mutilation on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125525338#post1

One that would survive a jury 5-1, even. (and no, it wasn't my alert. I've sort of given up on juries, especially given what I know about the prevalence of socks).

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Her confidence was obviously justified. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Yeah. Here's an interesting thought experiment:

Make a list of nasty, horrible violent things that could be done to a person, then make a list of a whole bunch of different groups of types of people, then try to fill in that sentence with one item from each list.

See how well that works, and try to imagine someone getting away with writing that on DU.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. All I can think of in that subthread is....

....ya don't say?

[Upton]

18. Whoa..that definitely qualifies..

and yeah, if someone here made a similar post about women..not only wouldn't it stand, but there would be calls from certain quarters for the poster to be banned..

Must be just another example of our "male privilege"..

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. Chah!

not only wouldn't it stand, but there would be calls from certain quarters for the poster to be banned..

Repeating solely because it bears repeating.

But this phenomenon doesn't require anything remotely approaching the violence advocacy of the post in question.

BTW; word to the wise, never use the word "haranguing".

[opiate69]

22. Oh yeah.. I saw that hide... I was kinda flabbergasted, honestly...

But, you know.. the kind of mental midgets we're dealing with are the type who think that a "journalist" who dropped out of fucking acting college is somehow some great fount of information and insight into areas of human behavior which she never, ya know, actually fucking studied.


(And then, I see references to the "scientific studies" about porn being trotted out as well... You know, the "studies" performed and analized by the wholly unqualified, far-right religious nutter, Judith Reismann. )

[Warren DeMontague]

20. DU would hear about it for a year, at least.

Not only would there be calls for banning, there would be repeated recriminations to and stalking of anyone else who happened to be anywhere inside the group during the one week period after the post, demanding to know why they didn't drop everything to immediately come and loudly denounce it.

[opiate69]

21. Aint that the fuckin truth

[nomorenomore08]

24. Yeah, nobody ever said the rules weren't enforced selectively here.

And for the record, I do think DU - or much of DU anyway - tends to be a little too comfortable with anti-woman sentiment, so long as it's more or less "politely" expressed.

But what I just said doesn't remotely justify the kind of violent man-bashing we see around here from time to time.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. If someone came up with some concrete examples- like, ones that didn't come from 10 post trolls, or

creepy long-time lounge oddballs who were subsequently banned for it-- I might buy the "misogyny is rampant on DU" line.

As it is, though, I don't. Ask for the examples of said "misogyny", it's usually something like the "hot celebrity thread" (and sorry, nothing is going to convince many of us- a majority, actually- that finding people physically, sexually attractive somehow = "hating" them) or else (this is my favorite) misogyny consists of people asking where the misogyny is. By merely challenging the assertion, you are proving it. Voila!

Then, of course, there's the blatant misrepresentation of statements like this, which unlike the example I posted upthread, pretty damn clearly doesn't mean what it was taken out of context to mean:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=9762

Misogyny- real misogyny- does occur but it is usually swiftly dealt with by MIRT or admin, as the case may be, and roundly condemned by everyone else, including the people in this group.

Last time I checked, the ONLY two names being regularly, seriously bandied about by most of DU for the Democratic Nomination in 2016, are both women. I don't think that would be the case if DU was reflexively somehow "anti-woman". Also, for the record, I don't think DU is reflexively anti-Man, either.

I think most of this place doesn't give a flying fuck about most of the goofy gender brou-ha-has, and rightly so.

[nomorenomore08]

23. I agree. Completely unacceptable even if intended as "light-hearted."

Mutilation of human beings is barbaric, sub-civilized behavior. Period.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Certainly, anger is a justifiable reaction to the story in that OP. No question.

But that's a fucked up thing to say, in any context.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. I've noticed a shift.

At one time, if I were to post something observing that men are not going to college, or dying on the job or suffering from mass unemployment or violence the post would have been "answered" with eye-roll smilies.

After a while, those same posts began to attract what can only be described as serious hate. The statistics must be lies, and posting those facts must be a violation of community standards. Judging from the crowd's actions, you'd think that I'd turned someone into a newt somewhere along the way.

Now, the relatively few people who respond to those posts take one of two tactics.
a) ad-hominem. "We all know how much you hate women."
b) ad-hominem with a double-shot of strawman. "Why do you hate black people?"

Yesterday, a poster attempted to explain away the fact that young men experience the lowest labor force participation rate ever with "increases in college enrollment", I posted a graph showing that college enrollment is growing only because more women are attending.


I got only one response. "Why do you blame women?"

I'm hoping that Ghandi was right. Although the reply is still a strawman/ad-hominem parfait, I consider this a win. The poster both accepts the reality of the point as well as acknowledging that it's a problem.

"at the length truth will out"

I anticipate that someone from the peanut gallery will post an eye roll smiley in response. That's fine, it shows that they couldn't think of anything better.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

37. There are people here who want to eliminate this group....

....and then there are others who have a clear view of what a "Men's Group" on DU should be (I suspect a lot of apologizing, self-flagellation, and general "Man, we guys are real shit heels, aren't we?), and the fact that it's not fitting that mold bothers the fuck out of them.

Women have a whole host of gender, societal and economic issues and complaints they have every right to air in public with like minded people on DU. Why can't these few people accept that men here should have the same courtesy?

I guess it's because we liberal men need the most watching, from what I gather.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Some folks look for answers, others look for fights.

some folks up in treetops, just lookin' for their kites.

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. I'd add to that, but try as I might, I can't think of a fitting noun that rhymes with "socks".

[RiffRandell]

46. How about "crocks"?

2.



a thing that is considered to be complete nonsense.



synonyms: lie, falsehood, fib, made-up story, invention, fabrication, deception, (piece of) fiction; More

Link:
https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=definition+of+crock&oq=definition+of+crock&gs_l=hp.3..0l3j0i10l6j0.2275.7358.0.7661.19.16.0.3.3.0.171.886.14j2.16.0....0...1c.1.27.hp..0.19.910.fwu7UaXZcp8

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Heh. +1

[opiate69]

41. If a man among you, got no sin upon his hand...

Let him cast a stone at me for playin in the band.

http://m.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. What more can be said?

"Wherever he goes the people all complain."

[opiate69]

43. Especially when he goes to his own sanctuary...

Man, do they hate that! Lol.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. No shit!

Aint that the truth.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I can tell your future, oh, just look what's in your hand

(I distinctly remember the show I was at, when that one "clicked&quot

But I can't stop for nothin, I'm just playin' in the band.

[Doctor_J]

39. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=10431

Hof regular claims predation is part of being a man

[nomorenomore08]

53. That poster is my age, actually several years younger, and I know how younger folks' worldview

tends to be rather black and white. Some of what he says, I find myself nodding along with, while other stuff (like that comment) is a bit much.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

48. Ok, which one of you is Emelina?

Apparently this group....excuse me...."fucking little whiner babies in the fucking whining baby fucking victimized whining whine babies demanding protection men's little boys group" is entirely behind the dumbass "Are men really needed" thread in GD.

[HappyMe]

49. Are you serious?

Wow. Some asshat in the thread said that?

How long would a 'are women really needed' thread last?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

50. Not in thread itself

Other corners.

[HappyMe]

51. Oh, okay.

No thanks. I stay out of the dark corners.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I think, um...

how to phrase...

nope, can't come up with one that won't get hidden. Not possible.



Anyway, that thread in GD is comedy gold. Funny shit.

[Doctor_J]

54. Ah...a black flag op. Could be plausible if we as a gender weren't so fucking stupid

Such a clever ploy must be the doing of a XX

[opiate69]

55. And, just so the echo chamber is better informed...

Yes, at least one vociferous feminist who is known to regularly post in cetain corners did, in fact, post in defense of that post... Despite protestations to the contrary.

[coyotespaw]

56. Misandy

Well you came and you gave without taking, but I sent you away...

[Eleanors38]

57. Umm, most of the anti-gun posts in the Gungeon?