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Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 03:18 AM Jun 2013

Jeez, this poor schnook...

(Thanks to the gals over in HOF for the link)

All I could thing about when I read this is what a self-hating schnook this guy has become. He has, sadly, bought into the idea that it is impossible to believe in equal rights for women while simultaneously being a normal male that enjoys sex and gets sexual thoughts. Talk about drinking the kool-aid and internalizing feelings of contempt that are floating around out there re men.

Some of the comments were reasonable, but many of them amount basically to "shut up and don't talk about it" as if men should be shamed of their sexuality. Ironic to see that women, who for decades were told that they can't express their sexuality, now seem unable to stop doing the same thing to men.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/05/stay_at_home_dad_sexual_fantasies_why_i_d_like_to_stop.single.html#comments



[font size="16"] Heel[/font size]
I’m a stay at home dad. I’m a feminist. I have erotic thoughts about random women I pass on the street. How can I stop that?

I’m a stay-at-home dad to twin 4-year-old girls who are already smarter than me, and my wife is a brilliant doctor who kicks ass and saves lives every day. I grew up with big sisters and a mom whose authority was unbreachable. I celebrate every inroad that women make into business, technology, science, politics, comedy, you name it, and I get angry about “slut-shaming” or “stereotype threat” or whatever is the affront du jour. And yet, in the caveman recesses of my imagination, I objectify women in ways that make Hooters look like a breakout session at a NOW conference.

In Louis C.K.’s comedy special, Live at the Beacon Theater, the stand-up, who in his own way has been making feminism funny for years, talks about being “sick of the constant perverted sexual thoughts” that intrude on his day-to-day life. Women who claim that they have equally hardcore erotic thoughts, he says, are just “tourists in sexual perversion” whereas men are “prisoners.” “You’re Jane Fonda sitting on the tank,” he says to the hypothetical woman who boasts of being as dirty-minded as men. “I’m John McCain in the hut … it’s a nightmare … I can’t lift my arms.” He then illustrates how his condition plays out when he can’t even ask a librarian about a book on Lincoln without aggressive pornographic daydreams turning him into a slavering idiot. “I just want to have a day [without the perverted thoughts],” he laments, “I just want to be a person, in clothes, walking in a store.”

I’m quickly realizing that avoiding ogling is a very effective strategy for reining in the imagination, and that the Three Second Rule keeps me honest. It’s also striking how the drive through campus is a “trigger” (to borrow SAA terminology) for what could be considered compulsive behavior on my part. As I approach certain intersections, I get a feeling of anticipation that’s not exactly sexual, but more like the buzz I get when I feel like there’s a Facebook notification on my iPhone burning a hole in my pocket: Okay … [scan, scan, scan] … let me just check her out really quick … Oh! There’s another one! Light’s green … I’ll just linger on her a little bit in the side-view mirror as I pass. But I’m not doing that today. I’m watching traffic, staring at the stoplight, making faces at my kids in the rear-view mirror.

I consider this a big victory so far. After all, it’s much easier to succumb to the impulse within the automotive bubble of unaccountability than when we’re face-to-face with someone. But giving up the little charge of satisfaction I get from acting out makes the driving more peaceful. Like road rage, ogling, while momentarily satisfying, actually consumes energy and attention, and ultimately makes the task of driving more difficult. When I interact with the staff at the kids’ school, and later the female cashiers and shoppers at the grocery store, again it’s a bit of a relief to make myself focus on their faces. Instead of undressing them with my eyes, I’m cloaking them in imaginary burqas. It seems like I shouldn’t have to do this, and that it’s not the “right” solution, but it’s working, and it’s less draining than catching myself furtively checking out the parts that are—forgive me—on display, and then creep-shaming myself.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jeez, this poor schnook... (Original Post) Bonobo Jun 2013 OP
It's just a problem with my glands. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #1
Sex is a normal and healthy part of life. Denninmi Jun 2013 #2
This guy isn't living, he's just existing. HuskiesHowls Jun 2013 #3
Ashamed of his testosterone. galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #4
FFS. rrneck Jun 2013 #5
It's a comment on the constant, if ridiculous, attempt from some to pathologize male sexuality. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #6
Well, of course, "it's unnatural" Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #7
All great comedians engage in self-loathing and neuroticism ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2013 #8
Yeah, maybe he's trying to be "funny" but he's obviously neurotic too... nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #9
Update: Comments from Andy Hinds, of whom one can be reasonably certain will never, ever, ever Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #10
I, Bonobo, celebrate my monkey nature. Bonobo Jun 2013 #11
He even mentioned "evo psych" Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #12
No! Not EVO-PSYCH! Bonobo Jun 2013 #13
Holy Crap. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #14
The comments are interesting, too. "Poor Schnook" is right. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #15
I'm glad it was satire. Denninmi Jun 2013 #16
He just got a crash course in what happens if you say "I find women physically attractive"- out loud Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #17

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
2. Sex is a normal and healthy part of life.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 04:33 AM
Jun 2013

Societies that oppress sexuality tend to oppress a lot of other things, like civil rights and even basic human rights. Sex is a basic biological urge, trying to suppress normal reactions to it is about as dysfunctional as trying to alter the normal human relationship with hunger and food to the point of developing an eating disorder.

HuskiesHowls

(711 posts)
3. This guy isn't living, he's just existing.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:26 AM
Jun 2013

edit for grammar...

This part of the article, quoted from Hugo Schwyzer: "Lust is the background music that occasionally gets turned up. Learning to let it come and go without being ashamed—and without making it anyone else's problem—is part of growing up.” (emphasis added), is key.

Enjoying the beauty of the world, whether it's a landscape, a flower, a dog, or a good-looking human is the best part of life.

 

galileoreloaded

(2,571 posts)
4. Ashamed of his testosterone.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:36 AM
Jun 2013

Wait till his wife quits finding him attractive and starts banging her personal trainer in spite of all his enlightenment.

See it every sad day.

Without alcohol and porn, I think male suicides would jump 10 times.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
5. FFS.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 02:47 PM
Jun 2013

How is it even possible, in an age when we can split atoms and drink iced liquor in July, to produce an ideology that depends on what other people think when they look at the world around them? We have become so decadent that all we need for our understanding of moral human behavior is proper perception management.

And sure as shit stinks dickheads will make money of that narcissistic tripe.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
6. It's a comment on the constant, if ridiculous, attempt from some to pathologize male sexuality.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 03:10 PM
Jun 2013

And it's boilerplate Dworkin-Mackinnon.

What the guy is doing, and trying to be funny about, is responding to these goofy, inane subtexts- like, "how can you be pro equality if you want to have sex with the people you support equal rights for?" (uh, because they're not contradictory, for starts) ... so he's self-flagellating, or pretending to. I don't think he is honestly wracked with a "problem" of being unable to control his nasty man-horn-thoughts, the way some people can't stop smoking crack.

And he points out a fairly obvious, to many of us at least, fact; that sex and sexuality are natural, healthy, positive things, and being sexually attracted to other adults is not a form of "oppressing" them.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
9. Yeah, maybe he's trying to be "funny" but he's obviously neurotic too...
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 10:04 PM
Jun 2013

I do kinda feel sorry for the guy. Mostly, though, I just shook my head at that whole article.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
10. Update: Comments from Andy Hinds, of whom one can be reasonably certain will never, ever, ever
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 03:33 AM
Jun 2013

make the mistake of even jokingly pretending to open this can of worms ever ever ever ever again:

http://www.betadadblog.com/2013/05/what-i-meant-by-that-thing-i-wrote-on.html

I'll take some of the blame for not fully committing to the humor piece, although I thought phrases like "cloaking them in imaginary burqas" and the idea that I would use the image of my Intro to Women's Studies professor as my "higher power" would be a pretty good indicator that I was not taking myself, or my "quest" completely seriously. It wasn't satire, exactly, although it had some satirical elements. It was meant to come across as self-deprecating, hyperbolic, and quixotic. But I also wanted to have a conversation about this vexing, complicated, contradictory thing that happens in the monkey-minds of men who would never consider hollering or wolf-whistling at an attractive stranger. It didn't seem impossible to do and still have jokes.

I'll put some of the blame on my editor, for telling me I was funny.

I'll put some of the blame on context. As one of the more reasonable commenters on Slate pointed out, it was hard to tell if I was trying to be funny when she first read it, because the article appeared in the "Double X" section, which is generally devoted to "women's issues" and almost always comes from a strong feminist slant. So it seemed feasible to that reader, at first anyway, that I was being 100% sincere about trying to purge dirty thoughts from my mind and that I was relentlessly beating myself up about having sexual urges. I assure you, as much as I am sometimes a little conflicted, I am not beating myself up.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
15. The comments are interesting, too. "Poor Schnook" is right.
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 05:54 AM
Jun 2013

Apparently he's enraged the "you look at women, you're an eye rapist" contingent. Like I said, I'm sure -now- he deeply regrets wading into that swamp.

And look! the excessively verbose "gender essentialism" person is there, too. I swear to God, there are maybe four people on the whole internet who obsess endlessly about this crap. The rest of the planet really doesn't give a shit.

"Pull up the RV, Honey, we're staying!"

Well, this all sucks for you, poor besieged blogger-man, but maybe it will make MIRT's job easier for a little while.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
17. He just got a crash course in what happens if you say "I find women physically attractive"- out loud
Mon Jun 3, 2013, 03:30 PM
Jun 2013




Comments are shut down, now... not too surprisingly... but it doesn't matter- the damage is done, I think. You made the list, buddy.

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