Apparently even homophobia is "all about womyn".
Talk about egocentrism.
Homophobia is a very important topic and indeed deserves to be discussed on its own and without being reduced as a sleazy vehicle for making a rad fem point.
I know we have some gay members that post in this group and I would love to start a discussion about the issue.
I, myself, do not understand the cause of homophobia and I assume the causes are complex and multiple -but I do NOT think it has one fucking thing to do with women.
= new reply since forum marked as read
some observations:
>>>And yet homophobia against lesbians seems to contradict this. >>>
Not to minimize the effects of anti-lesbianism in the culture (and it's destructive impact on individuals) but I think we can reasonably make some distinctions. There is a special, particularly pointed and aggressive variety of animus that abounds in the culture that is directed *specifically* toward gay males.
One can see it in the suicide stats. One doesn't hear much about young lesbians jumping off of bridges and hanging themselves. No, I don't have the stats handy and will be happy to be proven wrong but I think we can probably get general agreement that gay male adolescents are a *particularly* vulnerable psychological demographic in that respect.
One can see it and hear it in everyday interactions... particularly if one is around young people a lot. Here:
http://www.nohomophobes.com/#!/today/
Most teachers would back me up on this. There is greater latitude regarding homosexuality and bisexuality and gender non-conformity afforded to females than there is toward males. Multiple reasons for this not the least of which is that a lot of hetero men find lesbianism "interesting"; but not many straight women find male homosexuality interesting in the same way.( They don't know what they're missing. Tee-hee.)
Anyway .... apples and oranges. There is unquestionably hostility in the culture directed toward lesbians. But it ain't as sharp, serious, universal and lethal and I don't think it "means" the same thing. ( i.e. in terms of more general attitudes toward "male" and "female".)
>>>Even among homophobic men, there exists an attitude of respect, even reverence, for the feminine. How then can the feminine aspect manifested in men be the reason for homophobia? >>>>
I don't see a lot of evidence for this. Femininity is something straight males like to see in WOMEN. I'm not sure they "revere" it. They may be intrigued by it, but that's far from the same thing. In any case they don't , for the most part , want to see it in themselves... or in other persons of their gender. When they do see it in men it upsets their sense of order; perhaps reminding them uncomfortably that most of this stuff is societally imposed; i.e. a social fiction. But it remains an important part of how he ( the prototypical and hypothetical "straight man"
sees himself.
>>>If one is inclined to win the argument at any costs, no matter how many logical pretzels one creates in the process, one could claim that it is the Patriarchy defending itself against any challengers. But that to me is the work of someone with an unalterably preconceived viewpoint that is determined to blame men for everything. >>>>
I'm sort of out of the loop on this aspect. Sounds a lot like 70's ( 2nd wave?) feminism... which I thought we had ( necessarily) passed through but now were on to more nuanced ( and productive) discussion of these things.
I was actually wanting to start a thread on homophobia in here based on some things I was reading elsewhere (now, I can't remember the damn sites! 
).
From what I have learned by experience and study, is that homophobia is a cultural stigma based in issues with sex, sexuality, and intimacy. Homophobia also has deep roots in religion, as well. Some forms of homophobia do appear to have ties to sexism against women. The problem with creating a clear explanation as to "where does it come from" is that it comes from different places, from different people, and under different circumstances.
Of course, some of it also rooted deeply into sexist stereotypes of masculinity and femininity. IMHO, this is what most people use as a basis to enforce their tightly held beliefs (issues) with sexuality. It also is used to as an opportunity for others to exploit sexism (against women/men), which just complicates the hell out of the situation. I also when people use our accomplishments to bash others.
I have experienced many forms of homophobia, from being called a "faggot," amongst other things, to, of course, not being allowed to marry my partner of 11.5 years. All forms of homophobia (personal (individual)/societal/institutional) affect me in almost a daily basis. However, I feel there is hope because I do changes, and that makes me very happy!
Ask me anything!
I am actually very good with children, and have mentored them in many situations. That said, I will go out of my way to make sure I am never in a situation where I am alone with them or in the presence of a homophobe and children are present. My attitude is more from my mom. She doesn't care for children either, but loves her children, grandchildren, and nephews and nieces. I am the same, I love my extended family, but I do admit, I worry about being around them at times. Of course, I am the good uncle because I send money and cool gifts (sent a drum set to my 4yo nephew, but that was about getting back at my brother. 
).
Of course, it doesn't stop with children. IRL, I don't have straight male friends. I have almost never had them. The only exception was when I was in HS and in college before I came out of the closet. I don't associate with straight men, except here. When I do encounter straight men, I generally avoid eye contact, and almost never touch them, though I tend to be a touchy-feely type person. The one thing I have really come to enjoy about DU is that I can freely associate with straight men, and don't have to worry about what they are thinking. It is my own prejudice I have about straight men; in some respects, I fear them. It isn't rational, but years of taunting, years of accusations of appropriate behavior (including one that almost cost me my job), and years of hate directed at me, I have just given up. Personally, I find that to be sad, because I am sure there are some wonderful men with whom I could have a good relationship...and I just don't.
I also admit to a deep abiding wish that you didn't have to live in the part of the country that you're in. It IS better in other places, for sure.
Not the part about not liking kids; I mean, in that case it's no great loss- but the societal stuff around abuse and those abhorrent stereotypes about gay men.
I've written a bit about looking at that stuff from the other angle; i.e. that of a parent who is obviously wary about ANY excessive "interest" in my kids that could indicate something bad. And yes, absolutely, men are looked at far more skeptically than women- even by me, and I'm a man... but certainly not, in my case at least, Gay men more than Hetero ones. It's more ALL men, and one can talk it into the ground, it's still there.
But the fact is, kids' lives these days are often so programmed, it's pretty unlikely that one would just casually find themselves in a situation with someone else's kids that might even lead to raised eyebrows. Usually in most coach or mentor situations you are with a whole bunch of people- most parents aren't, like, "here, random adult, take my kids off all by yourself" ...obviously, if you're the babysitter, it's a different story.
And again, I think some of the social stuff you get- unfortunately- is tied to where you are in the Country. I just don't think the blue areas of the West Coast are nearly as backwards-ass as some places in this country can be around this stuff.
Of course, at the end of the day (Hi, Bonobo! 
) if you don't WANT to be around kids or have that role model or mentoring interaction, that's cool- it's not for everyone, and frankly if I weren't a parent probably the last thing I would be doing is spending large amounts of time around little kids (if I never hear that damn Raffi CD again, it will be too soon) ... but like I said, it makes me sad that there is this wariness specifically tied to these horribly bigoted and awful stereotypes.
I am too lazy to rewrite it. LOL!
It is a shame, however, how I have come to feel about being around children in some respects. Don't get me wrong, I love my nephews and nieces, and if I had children, I would love them unconditionally too. Many gay men feel the way I do, and even though we are seeing more and more have/adopt children, I have spoken to more than a few who are terrified of perceptions. What really threw me for a loop? I had a discussion with a few lesbian friends who also felt this way (afraid of children)! I'd honestly never thought it was an issue among lesbians (and I am guessing bisexual women). Personally, it showed me how destructive homophobia really was, that so many of us seem to carry this in the backs of our minds.
There are a number of societal homophobia issues which seem to affect some more than others, but the fear of being accused of being a pedophile seems to be almost universal, especially among gay and bisexual men. Of course, the great irony is we are the ones least likely to be actual child molesters, but it sure as hell hasn't stopped that myth.
I have all kinds of personal sob stories when it comes to homophobia. Some have been really painful and still hurt me; others were upsetting at the time, and some just rolled off my back. I have actually thought about writing an OP on how homophobia and heterosexism have affected my life and the lives of those I love. You'll laugh, you'll cry, it'll become a pert of you! 
Sorry, some typos... just can't pass without notice.
I used to work with a gay man here in Washington who was raised by a strict Christian family in Oklahoma. Smart guy and funny. After I left that job, I tried to keep in touch, but he didn't reciprocate. I didn't really understand at the time, but after talking to you, I think I do now.
I could not, for the life of me, figure out what you two were going on about! I was pronouncing it in my head as "luh-Burr", you know, like a "landlubber". And, then, when I spelled it (the previous word) out, I realized, the misspelling wasn't "luh-Burr", but "loo-Burr."
At least I could bring some mirth to an otherwise downer of a thread (the topic, not the comments, per se).
I will say that I think homophobia in general, and homophobia among men, is a complex issue with multiple apparent causes or tie-ins. I do NOT think that the role of religion can or should be discounted, minimized or under-played. I think it is a gross oversimplification- and a misreading of the situation- to claim that homophobia is simply driven by misogyny, because hetero men see gay men as they see women, and as such gay men are really just a proxy for hatred of women.
Misogyny is real, I do believe there are people who hate women, just as there are people who hate... well, lots of different kinds of people. ...but I don't think misogyny from men towards women is expressed the same way that homophobia between men is expressed. Nor do I think the causes are the same.
(And this is leaving aside trying to clear up a definition of 'misogyny' which is often taken to include many forms of sexual attraction from men towards women- not unwanted advances, not harassment, but the attraction itself, when it is based upon superficial physical characteristics or appearance or an expression of 'wanting to have sex with', which is taken, again, somehow as an indication of "hate" 
That's a whole additional can of worms)
That's not to say that there isn't some overlap between men- particularly overly traditional, and particularly religious fundamentalist (again) men who look down on women and similarly look down on gay men. If there's a sexual angle to it all, I'd have to say that at it's core it has to contain a good deal of self-loathing; if you reflexively hate anyone who might be attracted to someone like you, what does that say about how you feel about yourself?
Hmmmm. Gee, whiz! That really might be food for thought, might'nt it?... 
Ahem.
I also think there is a relationship, definitely, between some homophobia and cultural expectations (of the tired, leave it to beaver sort) of what it supposedly means to "be a man". Or to be brave, or strong, or whatever- Which is ridiculous, of course, because some of the most bad-ass, brave and strong men I know of were/are also Gay.
My experiences with homophobia growing up were that it was sort of akin to the idea of "cooties". (Or, maybe Communism under the HUAC) If you weren't sufficiently and vocally anti-gay, you might get accused of being gay yourself, and then God knows what might happen..... but which all ties back into the idea someone, somewhere promulgated that being gay was this inherently horrible thing. And it did not escape the notice of the smarter, nerdier, glasses-wearing creative kids that it was often low-valence meathead goons who were using anti-gay rhetoric and slurs against us smart, nerdy, glasses-wearing creative types, regardless of who we were attracted to.
So it seemed to me that somewhere between 1990 and 1999, mostly, a large portion of the hetero male members of my generation collectively went "Er, why the fuck should I care if someone is Gay"? And that was pretty much that. The generation after mine, even better, seems to have popped into adulthood with this sensibility already installed.
And geographics does play a big role. I consider myself fortunate that I live in a part of the country where being gay is literally the sort of thing that no one bats an eye over, not anymore, not for a long time. (Sadly, yes, I know our state constitution doesn't reflect that... but I am confident it will, soon)