Wow! Imagine being "booted" for this!!

[Bonobo]

"Furthermore, I was ganged up on for saying that masculinity was inherently violent. Which it is. The masculine ethos is one of aggression and physical confrontation as well as the repression of any sort of loving or vulnerable emotional displays."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=21989

Fortunately there are places this OP can go to on DU and find some people who will agree.
I hope that the hosts of that forum do the right thing and castigate the person for such an offensive post. There is little that we, here, can do however since most of us have been blocked.

[galileoreloaded]

1. eh, cut the kid some slack.

he is young and inexperienced, but decent. he's just playing into the societal narrative of how he was raised. imo even though i am new to this group is make sure we dont block dissension and make this group a place to discuss gender issues without the echo chamber effect that exclusionary politics create.

my thoughts.

[Bonobo]

2. Well this is the opportunity to discuss it.

I would like to offer up my thought that it is a disgusting slam on men to suggest that men are naturally about aggression and repressing emotions.

[galileoreloaded]

3. no the behavior is reprehensible, dont get me wrong

but im suggesting its just a product of his social conditioning and not maliciousness.

hey, at least his white knighting seems anchored in conviction instead of the majority i see here which is designed to curry favor and social acceptance. blah.

[Bonobo]

4. Well there is that.

Better to speak with conviction than in order to falsely make an appeal for acceptance.

But one thing that I think the Men's Group should do is call out instances, like this, of pushing a negative narrative about men --that they don't express emotions other than aggression.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. To the extent that the prevailing local culture contributes to that social conditioning

This is a worthwhile discussion to have.

The self-loathing coming from many members of the next generation of men (it goes beyond white-knighting) is troubling.

[galileoreloaded]

10. i dont want to have the discussion frankly

because understanding the true nature of gender dynamics in the US currently gives one great great power and ability.

learn how it works and you can have everything. share and you grow your own competition. BUT the lack of men in america is also causing some serious shifts that are a direct threat to my interests.

its a quandary.

[mokawanis]

8. why do those things merit consideration?

age, experience, and how someone was raised should be factored in to a response to reprehensible behavior?

[galileoreloaded]

11. i think so.

hes trapped in a hell he cant fathom, he cant even understand the depth to which he doesn't understand

[Warren DeMontague]

5. For a thread obstensibly for "examples of X", there sure is a paucity of actual.... er, examples.

Oh, there are certainly a few examples of "people on DU who didn't agree with me about something", that's for sure.

As for "LGBT people, in particular, strenuously objected to the implication that being gay is a choice" --- which was clearly the reason for the "booting" in question---
...now being cast as "sexism and misogyny"... well, that's a bit o' a stretch, innit?

[galileoreloaded]

12. yeah well misogyny is a word you toss out when you are losing an argument. nt

[rrneck]

6. Howzit members of some extreme ideology or another

never say, "Gee, y'know, we're just assholes and we're going to go away and leave everybody alone."

[Major Nikon]

7. Didn't seem to find much traction given the replies so far

[fishwax]

13. well, you did suggest in the thread he's talking about that fighting is masculine and

making a loving/emotional display to an abandoned infant isn't ... so I'm not sure your positions are really all that far apart.

fwiw, I don't think masculinity is inherently violent, nor do I think that masculinity would impede cooing to an abandoned baby.

I was ganged up on for saying that masculinity was inherently violent.
As a side note, it's a bit counter-intuitive to argue both that (without qualification) x is inherently y and also say that x is entirely a social construct.

[Bonobo]

14. "repression of any sort of loving or vulnerable emotional displays."

I didn't say that fighting is masculine either. I said I would hypothesize that men PROBABLY respond more with fighting when threatened when the old "fight/flight" instinct kicks in. That is NOT the same as saying that men are violent and certainly not agreeing that men "repress all loving and emotional displays".

[fishwax]

15. I agree that what you said is not the same as what he said

There are key differences, including his insistence on inherency and your somewhat speculative suggestion. More importantly, the quote you highlighted of his was offered as an explanation/definition of masculinity, while you were describing behaviors as masculine/feminine (which is significantly different from defining masculinity). So you were making a more measured and nuanced gesture. And yet, there are similarities in that each associates masculinity with violence, since you suggested that fighting (which is violent) is masculine, and distinguishes masculinity from loving/nurturing behavior.

To be clear, I agree that saying fighting is masculine is not the same as saying violence is masculine or men are violent. (Of course, if one is arguing that masculinity is a social construct, then saying "masculinity is violent" also isn't really the same thing as saying "men are violent." But the "inherently" in his quote certainly clouds that issue.)