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theKed

(1,235 posts)
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:17 AM Apr 2013

Was this really necessary?

Automated Message: You have been blocked from a group

You have been blocked from posting in the History of Feminism group by boston bean. If you believe this is an error, you may contact boston bean for more information.


So I was wandering through some of the DU Groups, this morning, that I check out from time to time (Cooking & Baking, Science Fiction, and, yes, History of Feminism) and reading a few threads. This one, "When Men on the Left Refuse to See Their Sexism" was new, so I read through it. Somebody named 'sigmasix' posts this:

I think you probably should edit your post so that it reads "some men" or even "a large number of men"- the way this OP is worded can be taken to mean that all men are this way. I'm sure that isn't what you meant to indicate though.


Strange. Kind of like he didn't realise the article was quoted from elsewhere. Of course, that's because there's no cues that it is: no quotation marks, no excerpt tags, no by-line, nor link, until the very bottom. Not that this is a big problem, but it's clearly confused some people as to the author of the writing. So I posted. The first time I'd ever posted in that group (and, might I add, trying hard to be diplomatic):

theKed
It may help

if you make it more apparent from the outset that you're quoting an article.
I was a good 2 or 3 paragraphs in before I scrolled down to see it there was a link. If you put it in quotations, or even dropped a by-line at the top, it would go a long way to clearing that up. (I would say 'excerpt' tags, but you have them throughout the quote and I honestly don't know if DU does nested excerpts like that).


Cool. I didn't mention anything about the body of the article, for or against. Inoffensive as I could make it, I thought.

seabeyond
no. i am not playing this stupid ass game. again...

thank you for the suggestion AND no.


Well, that seemed oddly belligerent. Did seabeyond misunderstand me? Is it some sort of massive affront to suggest a quotation mark at the start of the article, standard procedure when, you know, quoting? So I responded, diplomatically, again, I might add:

theKed
What game?

I'm entirely earnest and honest. It's not readily apparent that you're quoting somebody, and that might be contributing to at least 2 people not realising and asking you to alter the text.


Clarifying that it really wasn't my problem, that I was trying to help make it clear that the quote was a quote, and that I didn't think she should alter the text. So what's next?

seabeyond
first... this is the way OP after OP is created. title. then article in body

of text.

if you are confused over this ONE piece, you might ask yourself why.

secondly, another form of derailing men use when women speak up... ok, SOME men use when SOME women speak up is having to clarify with a some, many, vast, few, handful, before we can say anything.

the reality and simplicity is, if it does not apply to you (which i would suggest it does apply to you reading your posts) then do not take it as being one of the MEN that the article refers to.


Ad hominem attacks, obviously. Suggesting a quotation mark at the start of a quote is sexist, somehow. Remember, of course, that I was purposefully avoiding discussing the actual article in question since, well, I don't think my opinion is really valued on such topics 'round there. So...yeah. I was going to respond with this:

I really didn't come here looking for a fight

I read the article and, as I said, sorted out that it was an outside article eventually. And I noticed other people maybe not realising it was a quoted article, and offered a suggestion to make that more apparent. It's not a "game" and it's not intended to "derail" anything. It's a " at the start and end of it, to clear up any confusion. If it were anyone else's post and I saw people not getting that it was quoted, I would do the same thing.

I don't want to continue this debate, because it has no bearing on the article in question.


But...apparently I have been blocked on, I don't know, orthographical grounds?
Frankly such a blocking is a wild abuse of power, and utterly baseless.
91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Was this really necessary? (Original Post) theKed Apr 2013 OP
I agree with you... nebenaube Apr 2013 #1
HoF is a protected group and they can run it any way they want. rrneck Apr 2013 #2
agreed. their echo chamber is their right. galileoreloaded May 2013 #91
It's a purge. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #3
Nothing wild there. Just SOP ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #4
i like sigmasix. he is a thinker. i can always appreciate that in agreement or not. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #5
Do you theKed Apr 2013 #6
i did not read it. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #8
It's quoted above theKed Apr 2013 #9
I don't want to continue this debate, because it has no bearing on the article in question seabeyond Apr 2013 #12
DRIVE BY! snooper2 Apr 2013 #18
shake it out, shake it out seabeyond Apr 2013 #19
me too, I said one damn thing and was immediately blocked quinnox Apr 2013 #7
C'mon guys. That was the purpose of the thread. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #11
Me too. Soundman Apr 2013 #45
Welcome to the club Major Nikon Apr 2013 #10
If I had known my membership card to the club theKed Apr 2013 #13
Hey Warren D got blocked from there without ever making a post ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #14
How about a free video? Major Nikon Apr 2013 #17
I've been blocked from a group libodem Apr 2013 #15
Don't let it get you down! Vinnie From Indy Apr 2013 #20
The women do seem to have a very conservative bent libodem Apr 2013 #25
Free throught and free speech are always pretty Buffalo Bull Apr 2013 #21
"They know it when they see it" libodem Apr 2013 #24
Free speech is primary; thank you for the warning Buffalo Bull Apr 2013 #36
Agree libodem Apr 2013 #38
I have made an official complaint against this group, History of Feminism, in ask the admins forum quinnox Apr 2013 #16
And, of course, polmaven Apr 2013 #22
nope, didn't say that quinnox Apr 2013 #23
I admire your gumption libodem Apr 2013 #26
no problem quinnox Apr 2013 #27
I think he must know libodem Apr 2013 #28
I think he does know quinnox Apr 2013 #29
They seem to represent the Phyllis Schaffly faction libodem Apr 2013 #30
But if you criticize that, you're criticizing all of "Feminism" Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #31
Good graphic libodem Apr 2013 #33
I had one yesterday where someone was following a DU member around throwing a quote from one of Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #34
It's not sudden LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #42
Precisely how? LanternWaste Apr 2013 #89
I think if you want to reply to a post that contains the words "lately" Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #90
The new rules on limiting alerts seems to have many of them spun up Major Nikon Apr 2013 #43
I was under the impression.. Upton Apr 2013 #46
I thought so too ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #48
Tied for 2nd most in last 90 days it seems Major Nikon Apr 2013 #51
Oh, but that's because.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #54
Evidently Major Nikon Apr 2013 #50
Surprisingly enough, the "examples" of "sexism and misogyny" mostly seem to be, instead, Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #52
There's a difference? Major Nikon Apr 2013 #53
Ahh... but you see, apparently the sock thing was all an innocent misunderstanding.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #60
It's their group, they can run it how they want. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #32
OMG libodem Apr 2013 #35
Her "research" and groups affiliated with her have been repeatedly promoted on DU Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #37
yuck libodem Apr 2013 #39
It does get very wearying. HappyMe Apr 2013 #40
Thank you libodem Apr 2013 #41
I don't think they have that much credibility. HappyMe Apr 2013 #44
Driving people away libodem Apr 2013 #47
They are not the new voice of feminism ProudToBeBlueInRhody Apr 2013 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #55
Most of us do that. For instance, I am a staunch supporter of choice, reproductive freedom, equality Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #68
Okay, where's my cookie? I want my cookie! Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #69
Also, for the record, this was NOT me. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #70
They're migrating west. name not needed Apr 2013 #81
And his name is ACTUALLY "Adam Sandler" Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #82
And also.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #71
Yeah, I'm supposed to be one even though I'd never heard the term until people complained about it. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #73
It's exactly like... opiate69 Apr 2013 #74
just not all at once. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #75
lol.. no shit.. opiate69 Apr 2013 #76
What a cool pad! Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #77
heh.. Steven Tyler better hope so opiate69 Apr 2013 #78
Fine, then... I'll see you Steven Tyler's house Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #79
For some reason... and I mean, I know they made BRAZILLIONS... opiate69 Apr 2013 #80
I remember a story in the early 80s about someone's friend who was a very blissed out Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #83
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #84
Couple things. One, Gary Johnson is pretty different from Ed Meese. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #85
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #86
Exactly. But logical fallacies abound on DU, particularly in certain corners. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #87
and the corollary... Buffalo Bull Apr 2013 #88
Meta was awash with it too. Gore1FL Apr 2013 #64
It floated over the top of the bowl libodem Apr 2013 #65
Just to maybe head off some of the accusations against you, opiate69 Apr 2013 #57
It is their space, it should be respected Buffalo Bull Apr 2013 #62
but in our space... beating the dead horse Buffalo Bull Apr 2013 #66
Necessary? Of course not. Wholly and pathetically predictable? opiate69 Apr 2013 #56
Oh, it doesn't really matter that you weren't looking for a fight... ElboRuum Apr 2013 #58
I'm still burning a little over a thread I started... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #59
I think the gender reference libodem Apr 2013 #61
The OP is talking shit about HoF. You posted that in Feminism. redqueen Apr 2013 #67
You're right... TreasonousBastard Apr 2013 #72
I have answer for a question you asked Gore1FL Apr 2013 #63

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
2. HoF is a protected group and they can run it any way they want.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:29 AM
Apr 2013

For some in this country ideology is a product designed to satisfy people's personal needs. Since it is an ideology product (as opposed to durable goods) it is designed around confirmation bias and narcissism. Some people seem to think such an ideology is a proper substitute for civic duty and they confuse research to support it with smart shopping.

We know who they are, whether they do or not.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
3. It's a purge.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:31 AM
Apr 2013

Don't take it personally.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125519789

Their self-identity as besieged defenders of moral virtue is entirely dependent on the number of people on their blacklist. For all practical purposes, the hosts have only the power that the members of the group give him or her. The host is doing exactly what the members want; creating a blog in which a handful of DU'ers (and their alter egos) can participate, and within which no dissent is permissible.

My feeling is that a group's value and relevance is inversely proportional to the number of people banned from it.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
4. Nothing wild there. Just SOP
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:39 AM
Apr 2013

They don't exist to entertain debate or dissension, because they couldn't even tolerate the divergent views of feminists in the other G&O forums. They are there to bemoan how awful the rest of DU is because they don't see everything their way.

theKed

(1,235 posts)
9. It's quoted above
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:50 AM
Apr 2013

"I really didn't come here looking for a fight

I read the article and, as I said, sorted out that it was an outside article eventually. And I noticed other people maybe not realising it was a quoted article, and offered a suggestion to make that more apparent. It's not a "game" and it's not intended to "derail" anything. It's a " at the start and end of it, to clear up any confusion. If it were anyone else's post and I saw people not getting that it was quoted, I would do the same thing.

I don't want to continue this debate, because it has no bearing on the article in question."

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. I don't want to continue this debate, because it has no bearing on the article in question
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:54 AM
Apr 2013

that was nice, and the point.

now, i am outta this group. i rarely come in here. just wanted to give a wave to sigmasix knowing he uses both forums and wanted him to know i appreciate his posts.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
7. me too, I said one damn thing and was immediately blocked
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
Apr 2013

by one of that group's hosts (the same host that blocked you). One post. And that was it. And then, there were two others who were blocked just from that thread. You, and one other person, who was being civil and it didn't matter though. You can see who it is by going to their group and clicking about this group, and so they blocked three duers in that one thread alone!


Oh, and this is the supposedly awful post that I was blocked for. I was disagreeing with the article posted, and that was enough for a split second block.

My one post - "Yea, right, attacking men who support women's rights is the ticket. Great strategy"

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
11. C'mon guys. That was the purpose of the thread.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:53 AM
Apr 2013

The bright shiny hook isn't very well hidden.

"It's getting to the point when you can't even accuse your allies of gross sexism without having to defend yourself!"

The block list is a metric of perceived persecution.

 

Soundman

(297 posts)
45. Me too.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:01 PM
Apr 2013

I also was blocked after responding to your post. I guess they have zero tolerance policy for anything other than group think there.

theKed

(1,235 posts)
13. If I had known my membership card to the club
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:56 AM
Apr 2013

was in the mail already, I would've at least discussed something of substance.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
14. Hey Warren D got blocked from there without ever making a post
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:00 AM
Apr 2013

They lifted it during the "truce" in good faith I suppose.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
15. I've been blocked from a group
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:06 AM
Apr 2013

And was surprised at how dejected I soon felt. At first I thought fu, and then I puddled up and cried awhile. But I'm female, so I wasn't totally shocked. I am usually unsentimental, I don't cry easily.

I have had feminist leanings since the 70' s. I'm prochoice. I'm equal pay. But I'm sex positive, so I'm excluded from the circle. I've publicly stated that the word bitch, should be reclaimed and worn like a badge of honor, and not huddled sobbing in a corner over.Some Mods, used to advance search, DU2, looking for bitch references to delete. I'm clearly on the wrong side of the cool kids.

I'm still trying to analyze the schism. It might be a "wave" issue? A generational thing. I'm nearly 60. I think many of the current members of the groups are 30-40, and have families and husbands. They are concerned very much about deleterious effect of porn and the sex trade. The use of any 'slur' word trumps global warming and world peace, as an issue, as far as I can tell. I see quite a bit of, "you are trying to shut us up!", "we will not be made to stfu", protests. I take from that that they care about being heard and understood, want to be treated with respect, and the physical form of the female body, should be properly presented as chaste, modest, covered, and not sexualized for attracting attention. If a man does admire, it is called the "unwanted male gaze" and can cause shame and disgust, in the female. I'm still studying this phenomena for more clues as to how to get along. I suspect, I'll never be accepted. I read, recommend, and run.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
20. Don't let it get you down!
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:54 AM
Apr 2013

This small group of people seem much more intent on driving DU'ers apart and they even go so far as to advocate boycotting the pledge drives that keep DU afloat. It sometimes helps to remember that even if these bullies are not secretly committed to disrupting DU and sowing discord, they have an extremist outlook and that is simply a natural part of human thought. The left is not immune to extremism.

In short, just think of these folks as the FOX News of feminism.

Hope that helps!

Cheers!

libodem

(19,288 posts)
25. The women do seem to have a very conservative bent
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:06 PM
Apr 2013

Set on protection and image management. The behavior is very controlling and exclusionary. They seem very parental in nature, lecturing and correcting, the rest of DU on what is the right way to think, and tossing you out if you don't conform to the expected group think.

Very conditional acceptance.


And, to be honest, I got booted from the GBLT, group, for discussing the 'Friends of Dorothy' and asking if the reference might mean the good witch was a fairy image to them. Bang. The door was shut. I blew it. No pun intended.

Buffalo Bull

(138 posts)
21. Free throught and free speech are always pretty
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:09 PM
Apr 2013


I would have hoped that when it comes to censorship the forum would error on the side of adult participants being able to use well placed language that may not be pretty.

When speaking of SCOTUS and gay marriage,If I were to say.
"Social conservatives eager to claim the cloak of decency, attempt to make straight men's skin crawl but bringing up homosexual acts. Look inside the court to find what makes my skin crawl. When it come to decency ,Scalia is the cocksucker".
I may offend you, it may be entirely vulgar. Such a statement may brand me as not fit for DU. Yet it may relfect Scalia well in the contex that it is used. Thus it is political speach and shoud be allowed by adults.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
24. "They know it when they see it"
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:52 PM
Apr 2013

As far as the SC judges were concerned about what constituted smut, too nasty to see. Apparently some judges consumed a ton of it in chambers. There is a word for it that I can't think of, but it means the perverse stuff. Maybe it was, pornography?

I hope you don't get trolled, and hidden for your "cs" reference. It was discussed in Meta as having no other greater meaning, than to be a homosexual slur. Profound Revelation. Be prepared. Sorry.

Buffalo Bull

(138 posts)
36. Free speech is primary; thank you for the warning
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:20 PM
Apr 2013


If it is required that I be punished so be it.

Of all of the many decencies that mankind has granted itself free speech is primary.
If we do not speak freely than...
... our assembly becomes an endorsement of the prevailing wind.
I ask you this, would you prefer the company of a dedicated ally with a potty mouth?
The company of a implacable foe with pure speech?
Or a coward afraid to speak lest he express an agreed upon thought, in a disagreeable tone.


The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. ~Henry Steele Commager


The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers


Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
16. I have made an official complaint against this group, History of Feminism, in ask the admins forum
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 11:32 AM
Apr 2013

I think their recent behavior has been highly inappropriate, and I'm not just talking about these blocks. They actually have nothing to do with my complaint.

polmaven

(9,463 posts)
22. And, of course,
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:11 PM
Apr 2013

since it is absolutely required by the site rules that you visit this group on a regular basis, anything with which you disagree must be corrected immediately!!

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
23. nope, didn't say that
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:15 PM
Apr 2013

And it is very possible Skinner may not even post my complaint publicly. I just think this group has been way out of control lately, and it has risen to the point of negatively affecting DU as a whole, in my humble opinion, not just their little corner of DU.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
26. I admire your gumption
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:09 PM
Apr 2013

They make life interesting. I feel very much as you do. Glad you are sticking your neck out., for the rest of us chickens.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
27. no problem
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:15 PM
Apr 2013

it looks like Skinner didn't want to post my complaint, oh well. I still feel good about making it, it needed to be done.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
28. I think he must know
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:34 PM
Apr 2013

I think he tries to stay on the fence. I noticed a big push lately to add sexism and misogyny to the TOS, so more people can be banned for making mistakes. He seems to be standing firm on the current wording. I'm relieved.

When, I see a request such as that on ATA, it fills me with dread. Even as a female it makes me feel like some want to be out laying traps to catch liberals and have them removed from DU.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
29. I think he does know
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:40 PM
Apr 2013

I also have appreciated him not bending to a tiny minority of people sub-group who apparently think they should run all of DU. I get the same impression as you do, that they want to ban people who are not their followers. Heck, todays example of what they did to me and the others in that thread by blocking us is a prime example.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
30. They seem to represent the Phyllis Schaffly faction
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 01:51 PM
Apr 2013

Of Feminism. And the Andrea Dworkin/Ed Meese, league of all male penetration equals rape philosophy. Very anti-male and very Christian Conservative, reflections if you ask me. They do not speak for me.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
31. But if you criticize that, you're criticizing all of "Feminism"
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:01 PM
Apr 2013

Which, of course, is a progressive viewpoint that should not be criticized on a liberal website!

Mention the alliances of Dworkin and MacKinnon with Meese and Shlafly, or criticize the continual reliance on "research" by troglodytes like Anti-Gay bigot Dr. Judith Reisman, or even speculate on why there is all of a sudden such a reflexive defense of Islamic Fundamentalists and The Pope from said "progressives", and you will be met with


Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. I had one yesterday where someone was following a DU member around throwing a quote from one of
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:09 PM
Apr 2013

their posts, taken out of context, at them continually- so I took a quote from one of that person's posts, NOT taken out of context, either... and asked them to explain that;

to which I got "I'm not playing that game".

Yes, you are- you just don't appreciate having it done back.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
42. It's not sudden
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:50 PM
Apr 2013

I've heard it before outside of DU- from the same person that recommended artificially reducing the male population of the Earth to 10% (there was a strange reluctance to explain to me how exactly they wanted to accomplish this). They trashed Sila Sahin, they trashed Aliaa Elmahdy, then they wanted to tell me how feminist burqas were... Argh. That kind of disconnect makes my brain hurt.

However, forewarned is not always forearmed. It didn't get any better reading it the second time around, nor did it make one bit more sense. At some point fundie Islam apparently became the pinnacle of feminist ideals, and I didn't get the memo.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
89. Precisely how?
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:00 PM
Apr 2013

"I just think this group has been way out of control lately, "

Beyond the odd aberrant post (of which all of DU is so indicted), precisely and objectively how?

(unique, of course to that group only, else the statement would more accurately be, "I just think DU has been way out of control lately,

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
90. I think if you want to reply to a post that contains the words "lately"
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:03 PM
Apr 2013

you probably shouldn't wait 21 days to do so. The expiration date may have passed. YMMV.

Major Nikon

(36,899 posts)
43. The new rules on limiting alerts seems to have many of them spun up
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:57 PM
Apr 2013

They created a thread to call out what they think are "sexism and misogyny". In other words, if you are out of alerts, just post it there and someone else will alert on it for you. Of course there's also the recent evidence of sock puppetry in an attempt to circumvent the rules here, as if that wasn't already going on. So yes, there certainly seems to be a disparate number of malcontents for the number of people they have.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
46. I was under the impression..
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:08 PM
Apr 2013

that creating a sock puppet to use for, shall we say..nefarious purposes, was a bannable offense. Am I wrong?

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
48. I thought so too
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:40 PM
Apr 2013

Especially someone who has already "distinguished" themselves with a colorful transparency page.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
54. Oh, but that's because....
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:25 PM
Apr 2013

....everyone is out to get them.

I suppose that's good insulation even after it's exposed you're up to no good.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
52. Surprisingly enough, the "examples" of "sexism and misogyny" mostly seem to be, instead,
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:05 PM
Apr 2013

Examples of people on DU disagreeing with a HoF member.

Color me shocked!

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
60. Ahh... but you see, apparently the sock thing was all an innocent misunderstanding..
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:27 PM
Apr 2013

And Skinner for some reason is misunderstanding the reasons for her making it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=19985

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
32. It's their group, they can run it how they want.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:06 PM
Apr 2013

Far more concerning, to my mind, has been the near-constant campaign to order GD and DU at large to sign on to their agenda and their list of action items, "bannable" words, and the rest of it.

I will add that whoever sent the alerts on B.Bean's OPs, it wasn't me- nor did I serve on any of those juries (presumably, many have figured out how to spell "DeMontague" on their jury blacklists) ... I can't say I agree with all of the hides, although mabye the fact that randomly-selected juries are continually voting against HoF ought to be taken as some indication that maybe they may have finally irritated the DU populace at large past the point of no return.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
35. OMG
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

The link, was jaw dropping. Must be the school of thought for the Conservative Control and Command Center of Feminist Information Dissemination. Wow.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
37. Her "research" and groups affiliated with her have been repeatedly promoted on DU
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:22 PM
Apr 2013

by... uh... SOME people.

Because she's the only "scientist" full of crap brave enough to posit the theory that PICTURES OF NEKKID WOMEN ARE 100X MORE ADDICTIVE THAN HEROIN ZOMG O NO!

It's disgusting, it really is. She blames the Holocaust on Gay People. But since she's fighting porn, she's a "trusted source".

libodem

(19,288 posts)
39. yuck
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:30 PM
Apr 2013

If they just stayed in the echo chamber, and spoke amongst themselves, I would not care, but it gets dragged into GD, where everyone can be shamed into repenting and conforming. Barf is right.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
40. It does get very wearying.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:31 PM
Apr 2013

If they are the new voice of feminism, they can have it. Right wing blathering and holding up Dworkin and that scary 'scientist' Warren noted above are not at all my idea of feminism.

They are mostly concerned in gadding about DU, alerting on 'slurs' (some real, a bunch imagined) and that seems to be the extent of what they do. I rarely see any of them in a thread about reproductive rights or any other issues.

I refuse to bow to their ideas, nor will I conform. They complain about being vilified, but I must say that I believe they have brought it on themselves. They have driven a wedge beween themselves and other women here, who no longer wish to be bunged over the head with their crap. Unless you are 100% on board with everything, you are not a feminist. Fuck that. It's a few people on a discussion board. In the end, who the hell are they to tell me what to think or believe. The very thing women are fighting against - being told what to do, what to wear or not wear - is kind of what they do.

Neither you nor I have anything to repent, be ashamed of, and not a single reason to conform.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
41. Thank you
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:46 PM
Apr 2013

I wonder if they really believe their own hype, or if it is contrived to drive an agenda? They seem out of step with real feminists, but somehow maintain credibility. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure it out and see the issues from their perspective. I can't.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
44. I don't think they have that much credibility.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:59 PM
Apr 2013

I think it may be a 50-50 split with believing their own hype and their agenda. What that agenda might be...I don't know. Drive people away that they decide they don't like? Nothing else to do with their time? Who knows.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
49. They are not the new voice of feminism
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:45 PM
Apr 2013

They would like to be, and Rush Limpballs and Sean Hannity would like them to be to make an easier target than going after someone like Sandra Fluke, but they aren't even close, and it annoys the fuck out of them.

Response to HappyMe (Reply #40)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
68. Most of us do that. For instance, I am a staunch supporter of choice, reproductive freedom, equality
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 06:39 PM
Apr 2013

etc.

However, the problem arises not only when those who would ally themselves with the likes of Ed Messe in an effort to rid the world of smut label themselves as "Feminists" , but when they label themselves the ONLY "correct" brand of Feminism, and then try to paint any disagreement on those points- like Ed Messe and naked breasts- as an "Attack on Feminism".

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
69. Okay, where's my cookie? I want my cookie!
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 08:55 PM
Apr 2013

Only reason I'm pro-choice is cuzza da cookies! Cookies!

Nothing to do with any sort of philosophical across-the-board commitment to people (aye, that means all people) being able to make their own decisions about their own bodies, no sir!

It's for the cookie!!!!



 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
71. And also..
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:13 PM
Apr 2013

Appatently anything redqueen disagrees with is now an "MRA type" position... I swear, the intellectual vacuity is astounding.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
73. Yeah, I'm supposed to be one even though I'd never heard the term until people complained about it.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:52 PM
Apr 2013

but even beyond all that, It's the loathing that really sets be back a step...

Honestly, and I'm not just blowing smoke up the proverbial @$$, there is almost noone on DU who I can say I actively loathe. Maybe the guy who signs up to send those vile PMs, but that's about it.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
74. It's exactly like...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 10:05 PM
Apr 2013

teabaggers/wingnuts throwing out "Lib'rul!!!!" at any perceived slight to their ideology... primarily covered under fallacy of division and poisoning the well. And I agree.. I've told my wife before, there's probably a good 99% of DUers who would be welcome at my front door, any time.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
76. lol.. no shit..
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 12:53 AM
Apr 2013

since the whole "Rock Star" thing didn't quite pan out, I don't quite have that kind of room!

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
80. For some reason... and I mean, I know they made BRAZILLIONS...
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 01:02 AM
Apr 2013

but it's still hard to picture any of them (except Weir maybe) living in anything other than an old Microbus.

Sweet pad, though, for sure!

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
83. I remember a story in the early 80s about someone's friend who was a very blissed out
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 02:21 AM
Apr 2013

vegan hippie, she secretly followed Jerry back from a show, maybe hoping he would impart the secrets of transcendental wisdom or whatnot, snuck up to his window to see what he was doing, expecting him to be levitating, meditating, surrounded by technicolor buddhas or something..

and he was plopped down on the couch in front of Days of Our Lives, eating a burrito from 7-11.

Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #68)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
85. Couple things. One, Gary Johnson is pretty different from Ed Meese.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 03:06 PM
Apr 2013

Two, it only matters as to "how someone labels themselves" when it is part of a disingenuous and dishonest pattern of debate, particularly when trying to conflate disagreement with the extreme parts of the agenda of outliers with "bigotry" against a larger group- like Creationists saying "we're Christians" (technically true) but then turning around and portraying all criticism of Creationism as "Christian Bashing".



I wrote out an example of this sort of thing a while back, it kind of sums up why it matters:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2601779

553. Here's a totally made up example of the sort of logic at play:

1) Hoznofsters call themselves Flimshotters, even though Hoznofsters have a history of criticizing large swaths of other Flimshotters, telling Flimshotters they're not REAL Flimshotters, using derisive terms for other Flimshotters -like "Funflims"- who don't agree to all the Hoznofster definitions of what constitutes "real" Flimshottery, etc.

2) However... when experiencing general, widespread rebuke or -ever worse- open mockery and notbeingtakenseriouslyenough,dammit-ry... Hoznofsters will, however, immediately claim that "Flimshotters are under attack!" and even better, since Flimshotters -the larger group- are known primarily as arguing for equal rights for Wagglehorns, this allows the Hoznofster to move the argument onto a favorable playing field, because really everyone who is at all reasonable believes Wagglehorns ought to have equal rights.

3) Next move is to point out that a widely despised, if ill-defined, group- let's call them Mrazplotzes--- are known for criticizing Flimshotters.

You know what that means, right? If Mrazplotzes criticize Flimshotters and we've established by assertion that Hoznofster=Flimshotter... then everyone who criticizes a Hoznofster MUST BE a dread Mrazplotz!


It's logic!

Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #85)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
87. Exactly. But logical fallacies abound on DU, particularly in certain corners.
Fri Apr 12, 2013, 12:32 PM
Apr 2013

Another one that seems to be popular right now is "you can't be angry about this since you're not upset about that"- like, how dare you pretend to be concerned about axe murdering, since you don't take gum chewing seriously enough. As though gum chewing leads to axe murdering. As though gum chewing has anything to do with axe murdering.

But far be it for me to tell the "Dudgeon and Drag-On" aficionados around here, how to play their game.

Buffalo Bull

(138 posts)
88. and the corollary...
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:37 AM
Apr 2013


If you do not word it properly you are disagree ing
and
If you refuse to see one issue our way you are the enemy

libodem

(19,288 posts)
65. It floated over the top of the bowl
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 02:53 PM
Apr 2013

When meta was flushed, and into GD, for 2 weeks. There we all were in the living room with our rain boots and toilet plungers, flinging excrement, while newcomers perused the site. Very bad behavior. Best to keep it in the groups.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
57. Just to maybe head off some of the accusations against you,
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 07:57 PM
Apr 2013

I proudly admit to alerting on this post. I think this was the first (maybe second) alert I have made in HoF since before the truce. Funny how they run around pissing off countless people, but if a post gets alerted on, there's only 3 or 4 names they can think of. And, not "funny = haha!", more like

Buffalo Bull

(138 posts)
62. It is their space, it should be respected
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:22 PM
Apr 2013

First off, I am relatively new to DU
Yesterday looking for an interesting thread, I came upon this.
I followed the link back to the item that TheKed was referring to.
Being a Left male and a real big fan of free speech i objected to the assumption that we adults had to watch for 'micro aggressions'. That these micro aggressions could some way sum up to Homophobia, misogyny and racism as well as being a bully.I finally did some quick thinking and realized that i had violated what one participant called 'safe haven'.
Now I am blocked
I regret having violated their space, accidentally,it wont occur twice.
That space is sacred
The remainder of DU is fair game.

Buffalo Bull

(138 posts)
66. but in our space... beating the dead horse
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:47 AM
Apr 2013

Woman is the nigger of the world
Yes she is...think about it
Woman is the nigger of the world
Think about it...do something about it


We make her paint her face and dance
If she won't be a slave, we say that she don't love us
If she's real, we say she's trying to be a man
While putting her down, we pretend that she's above us


Woman is the nigger of the world...yes she is
If you don't believe me, take a look at the one you're with
Woman is the slave of the slaves
Ah, yeah...better scream about it


We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she should be
Then we complain that she's too unworldly to be our friend


Woman is the nigger of the world...yes she is
If you don't believe me, take a look at the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Yeah...alright...hit it!


We insult her every day on TV
And wonder why she has no guts or confidence
When she's young we kill her will to be free
While telling her not to be so smart we put her down for being so dumb


Woman is the nigger of the world
Yes she is...if you don't believe me, take a look at the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Yes she is...if you believe me, you better scream about it


We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance

by John Lennon and Yoko Ono

ElboRuum

(4,717 posts)
58. Oh, it doesn't really matter that you weren't looking for a fight...
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:12 PM
Apr 2013

You are not of the body. Hence you were expunged.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
59. I'm still burning a little over a thread I started...
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 08:26 PM
Apr 2013

over there a few months ago about this book:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/books/review/far-from-the-tree-by-andrew-solomon.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It has an excellent chapter in it discussing women who have been raped and the differing attitudes they have toward the children the rapes produced. Silly me-- I thought it would be a good resource, but I got swarmed so badly I had to delete my OP to stop the nonsense.

My sin? I mentioned in passing it was "ironic" that a gay black man would write such a sensitive work about women in such crisis. So it was demanded that I explain myself.

There were a couple of women who thanked me for the reference, but they were drowned out by the screams for my head. After I killed the thread, though, someone with more sense asked that I repost it with a small change, which I did and then watched it sink like a rock.

But, at least a few people got something positive out of it all, which is sometimes the best you can do around here.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
61. I think the gender reference
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 12:39 PM
Apr 2013

Makes it interesting. I generally get along well with trans type males. I like the men whom identify as female. We have stuff in common.

I've actually had a bit more difficulty with very masculine females whom identify as male. They can be quite dominate and entitled, when I worked with them or had them for friends.

A black writer as well faces special discrimination. I think your author was a gifted speaker against rape.

Sorry you took so much heat for your effort.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
72. You're right...
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:23 PM
Apr 2013

thanks for clearing that up (really!)

I would mention, though, that some of the swarmers were better known (to me at least) as HoF members-- one in particular. Most are on ignore at the moment, though, and it's not important enough to clear the whole list to see who all, but that is where my confusion came from.

But, you are right, that particular thread did not involve HoF.



Gore1FL

(21,805 posts)
63. I have answer for a question you asked
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 01:36 PM
Apr 2013
Well, that seemed oddly belligerent. Did seabeyond misunderstand me?


In my experience "oddly belligerent" trumps understanding or misunderstanding with some posters. "You are a male, ergo you are guilty of something. Please take this obnoxious abuse as your parting gift" seems to be the order of operation for many.



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