It is disingenous to come over here from a group that is blocking 16 members

[Warren DeMontague]

and complain about how and what you are allowed to discuss, in what threads, etc.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

1. Is someone complaining?

To be honest, I can't make hide nor hare of WHAT they are actually trying to get across.

Trying to imply the woman's picture was somehow poached for sexual gratification purposes?

Claiming we turned a woman into a "sex toy"?

Then complaining she made a homophobic slur?

Seriously, Formosa's Law....

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Apparently, I self-deleted the Dawkins/Watson thread b/c I was "getting my ass habded (sic) to me"

(Someone's got a cold?)

Actually, no. I self deleted it because a) The ground had been covered already, and b) there is, obviously, no way to discuss it in any fashion beyond NNYD, without being accused of apologizing for elevator rape and (this is rich) being a "split hair away from" being an elevator rapist oneself.

So, fuck it. Not gonna play.

[redqueen]

6. LOL, that wasn't a complaint.

I can happily discuss the incident elsewhere on the site and not be subjected to illogical arguments from people who think launching childish attacks on Rebecca Watson is reasonable.

I only mentioned your deleted post so you wouldn't think I was doing it for the same reasons you claim not to have done it. I saw your stated reasons. They make no sense. You were happy to discuss it till you realized how irredeemably and indefensibly fucked up Dawkins's (and that other moronic blogger's) "read" on the situation was. Better late than never.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. You are incorrect, but dont let that stop you.

If you want to believe you know my motivations better than i myself do, knock yourself out.

But I know full well how these things work. In a few days a certain poster whose name starts with "T", would be back in meta starting threads about how the "boyz in the mens group are over there advocating elevator rape!!!!" and folks who have never read a single post in this place can opine about how awful it is.

So, fuck it. Ive said my peace.

Glad youre here, actually, since you can weigh in on the OP i'm about to post. Respectfully and within the spirit of the SOP, of course.

[redqueen]

9. Yep, I might be as wrong as you lot are in thinking anti porn/objectification views stem from

jealousy, prudery, or religious/right wing inclinations.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. I think the alliances with and promotion of folks like Reisman and Hilton speak volumes

And its worth noting that the whole elevator thing was dredged back up only because of a particularly noxious thread that asserted Atheism makes men "less moral"



Again, do the math.

[opiate69]

11. Not to mention...

Prude: A *prude* (Old French
 "prude" meaning honourable woman)[1]
is a person who is described as (or would describe themselves as) being concerned with decorum
 orpropriety
, significantly in excess of normal prevailing community standards. They may be perceived as being more uncomfortable than most with sexuality
 or nudity
.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. I think the fact that you've started up several related threads here

After shutting down that one speaks volumes, but then again I am on the record as thinking the op self delete is in general an obnoxious act.

1 in 6 women will have a rape experience in their lifetime. 3-5% of college women will do so each year. Men get raped too, 1/33 of them, but almost all male rape is in prison, which is where men get to experience this aspect of the sexual dynamics of society. 99/100 rapists are men.

Is the men's group really the safe haven for denial? We really could be better than the woefull crap spewed out in the last few threads in this forum.

[4th law of robotics]

23. Is someone here arguing that rape is ok or nonexistent?

If not, what are you talking about?

If so could you provide a citation?

You made the absurd claim that talking to a woman in an elevator was basically rape.

People disagreed with you because that was ridiculous. Not because they thought rape was ok. At no point should talking to someone be considered rape.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Part of the reason I shut it down is, I don't appreciate implications of rape apology.

We should be ABLE to discuss someone asking someone else to have a cup of coffee (which also is not the same as "hey baby wanna fuck&quot without it turning into "WHY are you an apologist for rape?"

But, we can't. Same as how we can post 10,000 polls where everyone in this group condemns daniel tosh's "joke", and yet still, somehow, we're responsible for "promoting" it.

So fuck it.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. the only people claiming rape apology were the ones misstating what I said.

the defensive shields went up.

And you still don't get why women find strangers asking them to go out with them at 4am in an elevator just a tad creepy.

There is a continuum between "Good evening" and "Hey babe wanna fuck", and the circumstances affect that continuum, and a woman by herself in an elevator at a time when there are not a lot of people around is in a situation where her alarm systems are already going off. That is the wrong time to try to get acquainted. Seriously wrong. You really don't get it?

[Warren DeMontague]

27. And there is a difference between saying "it was the wrong place to ask her out", like I did

Last edited Thu Aug 9, 2012, 08:45 PM - Edit history (1)

and turning it into a giant issue, or then proceeding to paint everyone who doesn't show the proper degree of agreement on the issue, as somehow an apologist for rape, or (my personal favorite, as stated in another group) "probably a split hair away" from being an actual rapist, oneself.


I will find the link to that post, if I have to, lest I be accused of "getting my defensive shields up". (by all means, don't be shy to follow that one through, either: i.e. why would anyone get 'defensive shields up' around being called a rape apologist, unless they were... secretly... )

It's bullshit character assassination, and like I said, I'm fucking sick of it. And the topic- i.e. the one guy in an elevator who, once upon a time, made the poorly timed proposition, was rejected, then thought he moved on, and yet other people are somehow still having to apologize for him - has been beaten to death.



So I'm not playing.

But I DO "get it". I get why she was nervous at having a man in the elevator, at all, and I get why it was a bad place to ask her out. However, I don't agree it was the huge deal it was made out to be, nor do I agree that a poorly timed invitation to coffee makes this guy MORE of a "potential rapist", in fact I don't think Ms. Watson's objections even had to do with "rape", so much as not wanting some guy to ask her out when she didn't want to be asked out.



If you want to start another thread on the topic, feel free. Seriously.

I've said my piece, in the other one, all further inquiries on the matter that are addressed to me, will be directed there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=2754

[4th law of robotics]

14. Your anti-porn views may stem from something else

but for a lot of people it's exactly what you described there.

[Major Nikon]

17. Personally I'm getting more than a bit sick of that shit

There seems to be an ongoing situation where if anyone dares to call bullshit on any aspect of the "patriarchy" or any other half baked rad-fem idea, they are instantly labeled as a rape apoligist, or a pedophile apologist, or some other trumped up vile charge designed to steer the conversation to a purely emotional context and away from anything remotely resembling logic, reason, or common sense. From what I've seen this behavior is exibited by the same few individuals over and over. I had hoped this behavior would come to an end after one of the usual suspects tried to drum up sypathy in meta for their bad behavior and got soundly schooled for it, but apparently this is not the case.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. ...I questioned whether "the male gaze" was a legitimate scientific concept, ergo, I'm a cannibal.

Not to mention, a gourd-fucker.

That's right, I fuck gourds.

Sick!!!

[opiate69]

22. I can see the attraction

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Some days, it's a regular Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald around here,

that's for sure.

[libodem]

2. hmmm

Interesting. Someone came to this group from the echo chamber to complain? The echos must be beginning to be boring. Too quiet in Meta these days.

[opiate69]

4. I`m really ambivalent about this whole thing...

On the one hand, there are those who probably should be summarily blocked from here. They`ve proven time and again that not only are they unwilling, but also profoundly uncapable, of engaging in honest, intellectual discourse with those who disagree.

But....
A: I don`t want to "be like them" by padding the blocked list. I rather like to think our tolerance for their shit makes us better.

B: I think it`s as good a place as any for them to come and display their incoherent and illogical "arguments" and in the process put their psychopathologies out into the light of day.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

5. I agree

Let's be honest, we are so repulsive anyhow....they rarely wander in here anyway to sling a few arrows.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Its worth noting that right now, we only have one person on the block list.

I think we all know why.

[opiate69]

12. Yep yep... Tasty, tasty irony at that lol

[Upton]

21. And a good block it was..

Though he considers it some sort of badge of honor, in actuality, all it really does it remind people of his failed attempts at rallying the troops to come after the Men's Group. Unfortunately, for that particular poster, any troops he thought he had seem to have disappeared and the only reinforcements all reside in the HoF..

The whole thing is mighty entertaining stuff.....

[4th law of robotics]

13. I welcome dissent

you don't learn from an echo chamber.

Something another gender based forum on here might do well to figure out.

[hifiguy]

15. Silly you. When one is in possession of

The Absolute Truth you don't need to tolerate dissent. Dissent is only a way of implementing heresy, especially if that dissent is fact/science-based.

In all seriousness, there are people on DU who are as impossible to argue with in a rational way as any fundymentalpatients and Freepers. We all know who they are.

[4th law of robotics]

16. I think it's a sign of insecurity to seek out groups

of people who only agree with you and shout down anyone who dissents even slightly.

People secure in their beliefs can handle exposure to other ideas.

The fact that the people in question cannot suggests to me that they suspect their own views are wrong but are unwilling to change.

[Major Nikon]

20. Here's the way I see it

Tolerance does not require one to tolerate intolerance. Showing malcontents the door doesn't make one intolerant.

I would rather have a discussion with someone who disagrees with me so long as they can do it honestly and at least somewhat respectfully. I've been wrong before and I will be again. I don't have any need to surround myself with people who nod their head at every thing I say. However there are some on DU who simply can't handle having their ideas challenged and if logically cornered will resort to the most vile form of name calling and false accusations which have no place in civilized conversation. Some of those people participate in this group. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be on DU period and should find a new place to spread their hate. That's what unmoderated forums are for.

[hifiguy]

29. Deleted dupe nt.

[hifiguy]

30. Just a little.

Dontcha think?

I was stalked to this group by someone from a group which shall remain nameless and which I have now trashed and alerted on for something I said here, not there. I was then preemptively banned from said nameless group for comments made in this group. That is the triple-distilled essence of chickenshittery.