Statistics

[deist99]

Many on the left and the right say there is a connection between pornography and rape. However, according to the numbers from the department of justice rape has decreased by 60% since 1993. http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/

During this same time period, thanks to the Internet, porn has exploded. If there was some sort of causation between the two, what explains this huge drop in the rape rate in the US since 1993?

[Major Nikon]

1. Dworkin said it, so it must be true

That's the best explanation I've seen for that question.

Others have claimed that the FBI misrepresents rape claims, which hardly explains why survey data would be similarly skewed, but you never get an answer to that followup question.

So basically down is up in Htrae.

[deist99]

2. Agree

I've had my run in with those types before. It doesn't matter what the facts say I believe this so it is true. They are a lot like the young earth creationist whackos in that way.

However to correctly solve a problem you have to correctly identify the causes. These numbers show me pretty clearly that there is no causation between higher porn use and increased rapes.
I think it is great that we have decreased rapes in the US by 60% since 1993 so we are doing something right.

[Major Nikon]

3. If one genuinely wants to reduce rapes, it seems rational to try to understand actual causes

...rather than imaginary ones.

Fortunately there are rational organizations doing just that.

https://rainn.org/news-room/rainn-urges-white-house-task-force-to-overhaul-colleges-treatment-of-rape

[deist99]

5. Thanks

Thank you for the link. I found it interesting that most rapes are committed by only 3% of the males on campus. Will have to research where they got that number, but if that is correct we need a way to swiftly identify and get rid of that group.

[Major Nikon]

8. The hazzard that some succumb is the dangerous belief that rape is a crime of passion

...rather than a crime of violence. This belief is not only wrong, it causes one to focus on all sorts of irrelevant causes and false remedies.

Much of this is agenda driven rather than reality driven. The rallying cry that "all men are potential rapists", while factually correct makes no more sense than saying all women are potentially child murderers, which is also factually correct.

[deist99]

10. ?

Are you suggesting the old rape is not about sex meme that is mainstream right now? I've always had a problem with that. It's like saying that a bank robbery isn't about money.
I was a criminal justice major for awhile and during that time I was reading true crime books. In one they interviewed a rape victim who brought up that meme and said it was garbage. She stated something to the effect that he didn't break in and make me beat my cat or write bad checks, he broke in to f$&@ me. After I read that is when I started thinking more critically on the rape is not about sex story.

[Major Nikon]

13. There's no analogy that adequately describes rape

People don't keep their naughty bits in a bank vault.

I didn't say rape wasn't about sex, I said it wasn't about passion. Rape is sex without consent. Without sex there isn't rape.

Those that promote the idea that porn causes rape are essentially trying to float the idea that men are basically thoughtless apes that get hyped up on porn and then rape people or they are trying to float the idea that women who dress seductively are 'asking for it'. The crime of rape is a violent and hostile act intended to punish, humiliate, and/or hurt another person. That is the motivation, not desire or passion.

[Veilex]

4. I wrote a college paper on this topic.

I found through my studies that average sex crime rates in the late 1990s was dramatically higher within the united states than in any other industrialized nation that did not (does not) have a significant taboo around sex or pornography.

My research also showed this was a fairly consistent trend over the prior decade.


***on edit***
I got hearted!!! Squeeeeee!!!
Happy Valentines day everyone

[deist99]

6. Research

I've seen that also. Do you think there is any possibility that increased access to porn actually reduces rapes?

[Veilex]

7. Based on what I've researched, I think it is distinctly possible.

The interesting thing about a taboo, the more something is "forbidden", the more people tend to want to do a thing because its "naughty".

Add to the mix that people are inherently sexual creatures by nature, (Nearly everything we do in biology can pretty much be boiled down to sex or liver). People enjoy sex and enjoy looking at other people... so porn is something of a meeting place for those two interests.

[Major Nikon]

9. This is an interesting read...

The correlative evidence shows that states with the lowest internet access actually reported a higher incidence of rape, over the same time period in which states with higher internet access showed significant declines.

http://anthonydamato.law.northwestern.edu/adobefiles/porn.pdf

[deist99]

11. Thanks

Thanks for the link, I am going to read and digest that.

[deist99]

12. 85%

So there has been an 85% decrease in rapes and sexual assaults since 1973. That is amazing news. I think I will make a post in GD about that articles findings.

[Major Nikon]

14. Good luck with that

There are those here who will argue till the cows come home (and then some) that rape is really up instead of down. Mind you, they will ignore any evidence to the contrary and quote people like Gail Dines ad nauseum. Admitting anything else destroys the notion that 'porn causes rape', even though any evidence suggesting correlation, much less cause and effect is nonexistent.

http://www.christopherjferguson.com/pornography.pdf

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Heh. Not recommended.

You'll experience significant truth aversion.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. There's two different arguments, which seem to get conflated.

One is that porn reduces rape, which I think is a fairly spurious assertion- my personal hunch is the two things simply don't have a ton do with each other, at all.

The other, as you allude to, is the idea- not just promoted by Dworkin/MacKinnon and their devotees, but actually so central to the philosophical worldview it could be considered a near-religious dogmatic article of faith- that porn, increased availability of porn, nasty mens watchin' nasty porns and doin' nasty mans things while watchin the nasty mans porn, etc... WOULD cause rape, increased numbers of rapes, etc.

Well, it doesn't take a genius level IQ to see that in the time between the early 80s when they were whispering this gibberish in the ear of Ed Meese, and anyone else who would listen, and today, the easy availability of sexually explicit material by and for adults has exploded exponentially. And concurrently, there is really no conceivable way to manipulate the statistics- which all seem to show a decline in rape which matches the decline in other violent crimes- in such a way that would reflect the societal doomsaying effects of porn that Dworkin predicted.

The easy, simple, flat-out obvious answer is, "okay, she was clearly wrong".

But that's too difficult an admission for some to make, apparently.

[deist99]

17. Research

I've been stuck in the house today due to the weather and have been researching this a lot. There is research that shows a connection between watching porn and attitudes towards rape and sexual assault. i.e. soon after watching porn men are more likely to say they would rape someone or beleive a women is asking for it. But there is a world of difference between thinking something and doing it. I think you would get the same reaction about violence but there is not numerous lobbying groups trying to outlaw violent movies.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. I think there is a lot of spurious 'research' that is done with an agenda in mind.

I highly doubt that men (or anyone) generally watch porn and then come away with a head full of "rapey rape rape rape ughhhhhh". It sounds like bullshit anecdote, to me.

Like the "research" that "proves objectification" because men are more likely to recognize a woman's body in a bathing suit, upside down, as a woman, than they are likely to recognize an upside down man. Because in the world of agenda-driven sociological asshattery, seeing an upside down woman as a woman proves men don't see women as women. Or something.

It's very simple. If Dworkin had been within 100 light-years of being right about this shit, rape numbers would have gone through the roof between the days of "sneaking into the corner newstand to buy a copy of Oui in a brown paper bag" and "downloading pictures of Asia Carrera from freeones". They didn't, and it's impossible to argue that they have.

[deist99]

19. Agree

Agree that there is a lot of agenda driven research and that confirmation bias and outright lying is involved. Started doing research on the radfem movement after I read the all PIV is rape nonsense awhile ago. When people actually argue that the way all mammals reproduce isnt natural you realize quickly that these people have lost touch with reality. They are a lot like the young earth creationist.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. I think there are maybe 5 or 6 people who actually, genuinely believe that blibber.

Although the fact that they can create sockpuppets on the internet to talk to themselves, means that it seems like there may even be 20 or 30 of em.

[NaturalHigh]

21. "the two things simply don't have a ton do with each other"...

That's my opinion too. A truly unbiased study might find differently, but due to social taboos that many still adhere to, I think that conducting such a study would be very difficult.