OK Men this is my new year's message to you (complementing my post to the HoF group)

[arely staircase]

I think most of you (if not all) agree with the "radfems" on gender equality. I, like you, disagree with them (or at least how they express themselves) on some issues. porn is one of them. I get where they are coming from on how women are depicted in a lot of porn. But I recoil as I would from a snake at what often appears to be their call for censorship ( mainly, but not only because what little porn I watch would be banned by the right because of the gender mix of the participants.) What I have pledged to them is a more respectful discussion of that issue, but mainly a recognition of the true enemy - politicians who want to dictate women's medical decisions or my choice of partners. I let them know that I will continue to point out where I disagree with them, but in a more intellectual and respectful way - though I will ask them if they really want to agree with Falwell, etc. on porn. i just won't say 'hey, you are the same as Fallwell. Anyway, the pisseness will continue, but let us all try to recognize and fight the real enemy.,

[Bonobo]

1. I like it.

Of course we all agree on the issues of not only gender inequality, but also violence against women, reduction in the constriction of "gender roles" and everything else including consent issues.

If some people would stop using us as a convenient foil to pretend that "the enemy is amongst us". I think much of the backbiting would stop.

Yes, there are real enemies. We are not them.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. I'm glad people are realizing that guilt by association is one of many crap logical arguments.

Here's a good example of that sort of reasoning: "You criticize Andrea Dworkin. Andrea Dworkin was a Feminist. MRA's criticize Feminists. Therefore, you are an anti-Feminist MRA".

If I had a piece of cake for every time I've heard something like that, here, I'd have a lot of cake.

Now, I do believe that when right-wing sources are directly linked or quoted on DU- be they Judith Reisman or The Meese Commission- it's more than legitimate to call them out as such. Right wingers and their organizations do not get a magic free progressive pass just because they're trying to stamp out smut.

Personally, I've said this before- I'm strongly pro-First Amendment. I'm not going to apologize for that. And I'm pro personal freedom. I'm not going to apologize for that. I believe that consenting adults should be free to engage in consenting adult behavior, as long as everyone is a consenting adult.

But porn isn't going anywhere. That ship has sailed. The folks who have hung their hat on "getting rid of it" ... it doesn't really matter what side of the ideological spectrum they're on, they've lost that particular battle.