Barack Obama
Related: About this forumIt was true then, It is true today.
Why Obama Still MattersAndrew Sullivan NOV 21 2011
But the right is more unhinged and more dangerously full of denial. Since I was never structurally or financially or socially linked to the Washington right, I was immune to the withdrawal of jobs, money and access doled out to any dissenter in the Bush years. But every now and again, I get some kind of amazed look "You're not going to back Obama again, are you?" from someone in the conservative cocoon, and when I respond, "So far, you bet!", there is often a long pause and a genuine sadness on their faces. "What the hell happened to him?" you can hear them asking themselves.
Some of this is as head-scratching for me as it is for David:
Some of the smartest and most sophisticated people I knowcanny investors, erudite authorssincerely and passionately believe that President Barack Obama has gone far beyond conventional American liberalism and is willfully and relentlessly driving the United States down the road to socialism. No counterevidence will dissuade them from this belief: not record-high corporate profits, not almost 500,000 job losses in the public sector, not the lowest tax rates since the Truman administration. It is not easy to fit this belief alongside the equally strongly held belief that the president is a pitiful, bumbling amateur, dazed and overwhelmed by a job too big for himand yet that is done too.
Did you get the impression from the GOP debates that Obama had lowered taxes? That he had not nationalized but saved the banks? That he had dispatched Osama and Qaddafi? That he had 60 percent support for a sane and succcessful foreign policy? That he was an exemplar of all those social values conservatives say they support: a model husband and father, a black man who has eschewed identity politics almost entirely, a president whose speeches are among the most intellectually Christian of any in modern times? This strange, bizarre hostility to him I put down to displaced anger at Bush, to cultural panic among the old, but also to a wider propaganda support system that is truly a sight to behold:
SNIP:
It was never my party, but it was one to which I could once accord regular agreement and respect. No more. I remain unrepentant in my support for this president, a man who has accomplished more in the face of a more hostile environment in his first three years than any president since Johnson. I wish more reasonable Dems and a few moderate Republicans will soon have the courage to say so.
The rest here:
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2011/11/21/why-obama-still-matters/
freshwest
(53,661 posts)sheshe2
(87,221 posts)With all the negativity, I wanted to post a rebuttal if you will.
I, we all grow tired of the whining. I said it here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11028191
Thanks, freshwest.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)sheshe2
(87,221 posts)freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)I guess I missed something. So did friends of mine who can't afford health insurance.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Closer than anything the country has ever had.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)I know what you're trying to say, I'm just making it a little more accurate. I think we should both agree Sullivan is lying here. "Universal healthcare" has ALWAYS been available if one goes by the tone deaf definition Sullivan is trying to use... available to anyone that can afford it. "Universal healthcare" actually means no one is denied needed care. Period. Elective treatment, as determined by a doctor and not a bean-counter, costs out-of-pocket and is out of the scope of universal healthcare.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)If I had been fired at one time, I would not have had a way to get ins. coverage....not poor enough for Medicaid, old enough for Medicare, rich enough to buy it.
He's talking about the subsidies for the working poor and lower middle class, Medicaid for the poor (which has been expanded to include the working poor), Medicare for the seniors, health care for children. The wealthy and most middle class working people get ins. through their employers. Plus the laws that prohibit ins. cos. dropping those who file claims, and prohibit ins. cos. from excluding pre-existing conditions, and prohibit the charging of rates so high that it is equal to not providing coverage at all.
Some still fall through the cracks, which Obama acknowledged on the passing of the ACA. But it's close.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Any of the people who are part of the 50% of medical bankruptcies in MA years after Romneycare could explain that to you.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)So when talking about health care coverage, yes, the ACA was historical in providing almost universal ACCESS to health care (thru ins. coverage for some, providing direct care for others).
treestar
(82,383 posts)That meme is just really dumb, sorry. The idea is getting it paid for. Single payer would not be care either, just a means of paying for it. The left needs to stop making itself look stupid by using this canard.
eridani
(51,907 posts)In single payer (and single buyer countries as well), claims refusal is illegal. No other country has deductibles either, though some have copayes.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It not being covered, then it needs to be covered. Obamacare helps with that. It's not so that insurance has no value - it does pay out on claims for what it covers.
Single payer would still only pay. It might be a different and better system but is still not care but just a payment method.
The idea of insurance companies turning down most claims doesn't go along with people 's experience. It pays for a lot of things for a lot of people.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Single payer is a payment system designed to maximize benefits. Private insurance exists for the purpose of minimizing them. They are always looking for excuses not to pay.
In MA, 50% of all bankruptcies are STILL due to health care costs. There is no such thing as health care bankruptcy in civilized countries. Before Romneycare, 59% of bankruptcies were health care bankruptcies, so we can expect similar improvement from ACA. However, the 50% number is still NOT acceptable.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)This discussion is about what the ACA accomplished in our insurance-driven system.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not. No legislative bill is perfect. But it is helping millions of people who didn't have access to health care before.
If you don't care about your co-citizens getting health care, I wonder why you're so concerned about a health care system at all. If all that matters to you is if you have health care, and you have it, then you should be happy.
As for bankruptcies, in the U.S. a debtor cannot get care provider bills done away with in bankrtupcy. That law was passed not too long ago. Joe Biden voted for it or actually introduced the bill, as I recall. A very disturbing chapter in Biden's history (altho I otherwise love the guy). Very unfair and harmful to millions of people, who will be saddled with debt the rest of their lives due to one illness....until the ACA passed. The ACA requires NO LIFETIME CAP on coverage. It also does not allow rejection based on a pre-existing condition. It also doesn't allow dropping an insured because he files a claim. It also provides subsidies for policies, if you meet the criteria. It also expands Medicaid into the working poor class.
When you have a policy, now...you know how much out of pocket you will have for an entire year, up front. There should not be many surprises, like before. And the policy won't drop you...so you'll have that same policy the next year.
If you live in a state with exchanges, you will have a FEDERAL policy in your choices, is what I've read. But you will have an array of policies to choose from. I'm not in a state that will have exchanges, but I get my ins. through my employer, like most middle class people.
I hope I can hang in there until I qualify for Medicare at age 65.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I sympathize, I have a high deductible. Now 50 and had to pay for a lot of tests out of pocket, because I'm not at the deductible. All those tests you just have to have for being female and/or of a certain age, so we're not even talking about symptoms. But if I were really sick I'd have a way to pay for 80% of the amount over the deductible.
Single payer might cut back on things too, or not cover certain things. It's just a way to pay for it.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Private insurers are essentially mass murderers. If some foreign country killed 44,000 Americans a year, it would be a radioactive parking lot. ACA will improve things, but people will still die because they can't pay for care.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Single payer won't pay for everything everyone wants either. We're just talking about how to pay for it. It is never going to be free.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Health care can be free at the point of service without being free, jsut like the fire department. Single payer will not include every single bells and whistles item, but it will include all standard procedures that save lives, for everybody.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)access to health care...in our country, that access is obtained by a combination of direct care in some instances, and insurance coverage in other instances.
The govt also doesn't give each of us a million dollars in a basket to provide for our future health care, a new car on our 30th birthday, or all sorts of wishes we might have.
But this is a thread about what is. Not what we dream about (not that dreaming should be stopped, or activism to work towards a national health care system should be dropped). But the ACA accomplished in the US what had never been done before: almost universal access to health care.
If you aren't one of the ones it has helped, you might not think it's important. But there have been members of my family who were denied health care coverage, which would not be the case now because of the ACA. So I personally feel the good that the ACA is accomplishing.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Pretty much the point of adopting UHC: No one can be denied needed care. That isn't what the ACA does. We both agree that Sullivan is full of crap and that ACA is most certainly not UHC. The ACA is a step in the right direction, but let's not call it what it isn't.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)As far as ordinary care, the ACA, for the first time in American's history, provides almost universal access to health care through direct health care or subsidies to ins. coverage.
Of course, it has long been the case that anyone requiring life saving care gets it...the law requires hospitals to provide that, and the govt reimburses the hospital. This need will go down, now that most people will have access to health care, preventing some emergency situations, and paying for other emergency situations, so the taxpayer doesn't have to pay.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)I have no coverage and can afford none. At my age they won't take me anyhow. America is an effing joke.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)last year. I paid for the COBRA, but it was hard...it was VERY expensive.
What was helpful was accessing www.healthcare.gov, and using that service to identify policies in my state that I could more easily afford. I could sort them by deductible amount or premium or whatever. There were policies at various premium levels. So I would've gotten a policy that way...a much cheaper policy, just protecting me from a catastrophic illness, probably.
I work mainly for insurance. I work for $, too, don't get me wrong.
The ACA isn't perfect, and passing a national health care system, jumping directly from an insurance provider system, wasn't going to happen. But it has provided access to health care for millions, who didn't have access before, so I acknowledge that. My mother (now deceased) was one of those once denied ins. coverage because of a pre-existing condition. That would no longer be the case.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)...he's not above being disingenuous when it suits him.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)ProSense has an amazing amount of info on these subjects...
May I caution you that you are posting in The Barack Obama Group.
You can always start a thread in GD.
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)Are there things that are not allowed to be said on a thread that originated in the Barack Obama Group?
What would be at those links? Evidence that Obama did in fact bring us universal healthcare?
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)is in GD:
Mission Statement Barack Obama Group:
This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose,
roup Hosts are assigned either by the DU Administrators, or by other Hosts of that group. Group Hosts have the following abilities: 1) They can lock threads which they believe violate the group's stated purpose; 2) they can pin threads to the top of the group; 3) they may completely block out members whom they believe are not adhering to the group's purpose; 4) they may add other members as group Hosts; and 5) they may remove any Host that became a Host after they did (and who is listed below their name on the list below).
Your bio shows that you have been here since 2006....I think you should know about the groups and their mission statements!
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)That's OK.
I don't pay much attention to group rules, because until this moment I have not knowingly posted in a group. Sorry I missed that.
d_b
(7,463 posts)that's where i stopped reading
Cha
(305,022 posts)of Hostility from both ends of the Spectrum.
In Miami, President Obama Talks About his Plan to Put People to Work Rebuilding America
It is projects like this one, the President said in remarks following his tour, that will help reignite the true engine of our economic growth -- a rising, thriving middle class. "Projects like this create a lot of other good jobs, too," President Obama explained. "You ask any CEO where we they rather locate their business and hire new workers. Are you going to set up shop in a country that's got raggedy roads, runways that are pot-holed, and backed-up supply chains? Or are you going to seek out high-speed rail, Internet, high-tech schools, new state-of-the-art power grids, new bridges, new tunnels, new ports that help you ship products made in America to the rest of the world as fast as possible? That's what people are looking for. That's what CEOs are looking for."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/03/29/miami-president-obama-talks-about-his-plan-put-people-work-rebuilding-america
thank you for aritcle from Andrew Sullivan, she.. and as you say.. was true then and it's true now.
BOG
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)"Hostility from both ends of the Spectrum."
Oh yeah, so very well said!
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, a little busy...
Thanks for the news from Miami!
Cha
(305,022 posts)have your hands full.
Not sure what he meant by that? "Universal Healthcare".. If he was talking about just the medicaid part or what? But, the fact remains that the President matters as much now as then. Andrew was right about this..
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)"President Obama still remains Strong in the face of Hostility from both ends of the Spectrum."
it would be hard to believe that his approval rating is even in the mid 50s. His critics are about as vocal on the Left as they are on the Right. Even when he does something beneficial or takes a populist position (such as his Jobs Act he tried to pass, ending the war, or endorsing gay marriage), they just look past that and look for something to jump on him for in order to brand him as some DINO sellout.
Cha
(305,022 posts)It's the curse of the whiners.. it must be fed.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)No wonder he's a writer by profession. He says things so well.
I have gotten disappointed, angry, frustrated. But in the end, after I regroup, I start thinking about the whole picture and remember all that he's done, under the most trying circumstances. Passing the ACA was nothing short of miraculous, despite its shortcomings. Setting aside millions of acres to be preserved. The Lilly Ledbetter Act. And on and on. I support him.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)I support him too.
Yes the list goes on and on!
sheshe
kairos12
(13,240 posts)That is a laughable, preposterous statement. Tell that to all the people in my Red State who:
don't have the money for pre-existing condition pools
no private insurance will touch
Red State Teabag governor cut funds for people in her condition
won't live long enough to qualify for SSDI or Medicare
over 26 and off their parents health care
He is as full of shit on this issue as when he supported Shrub's war in Iraq.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)Governor's have the option of opting out of care that is provided under ACA. This at a huge cost to the states. Please place blame where it it due. This is not the fault of the President.
And a word of caution here. You are posting on The Barack Obama Group.
kairos12
(13,240 posts)sheshe2
(87,221 posts)There is so much more to the article than health care. Yes that is a huge issue, one that I feel he has done his best to address with so many against him. He is not a King, he is a elected president.
The thrust of my OP was praise for what he HAS been able to accomplise, with the ubstruction of the GOP and yes, I am sorry to say from many democrats.
Then there was this:
From my Link.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Have you used your energy to convince your neighbors to vote the Tea Party out of power to get what you need?
Coming here using abusive language and sneering isn't going to solve your problem:
...In short, if youre still disappointed in Barack Obama, its only because you never understood whose job it was to produce change in the first place. But dont take out your own failings in this regard on the rest of us...
~Tim Wise
Cha
(305,022 posts)I thought I remebered Rick Scott wanting to accept Obamacare but I guess not.
But, Jan Brewer did.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Obama is not a dictator who can make every state obey him. Not sure why people expect him to be. Maybe they miss good ol' Shrub's 'ballsy' style. There is good news, though:
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)It would be shrinking even more if gerrymandering weren't keeping it bloated.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)If Battleground Texas keeps on pushing forward, it will be blue in a few years. Many of the states aren't really red to begin with. They are purple and the traditional winner take all system disenfranchises many. All of these things are managed on the local level, not by PBO. I've learned recently districts can be changed and partisan gerrymandering challenged non-stop. It requires not ceding any election no matter how trivial they may seem to the GOP who is always working on the ground game. Many people only watch the elections every four years, but it's really what happens in the years between that determine the outcome. It's not an episode of American Idol and then it's done, it's ongoing.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)kairos12
(13,240 posts)The term Sullivan uses is universal health care. For the good Obama achieved it was not universal health care as Sullivan claims. Millions will not be covered. That is not universal health care so Sullivan should not use that term.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)there's no such thing, and anyone who tells you there is is selling something.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)Talk about
- cherry picking
- misdirection
- demonizing
- straw men
Etc.
We, as thing individuals, let alone liberals, can do better than this silliness.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)riverbendviewgal
(4,317 posts)As your neighbor up north, I and my fellow Canadians wish we had an Obama. America's problem and Obama's is the tea bagging republicans. I have been lurking on DU for years and lately I find my self disgusted with many DUrs with their hatred of Obama.
As a president he can only do so much. All those filibusters are absurd. Your media is corrupt when it does not present the facts and makes stupid stories big news.
My history teacher said empires last about 200 to 250 years. Empires die from within due to apathy, ignorance and corruption. America is on it's way down.
I admired America for electing Obama but now I see his own side turning on him. So now It is time for me to get very involved in making sure my country goes to the NDP or Liberals. Harper is a danger. Canadians made a grave mistake in the last election.
My concern now is water, health care , especially mental health care and having more green energy, better education. I want a progressive Canada and the only to get it is to work at it.
sheshe2
(87,221 posts)I thank you for you post.
You want for Canada what we, well most of us want for the US. We have the hater's. However we have strength too. We can do this, we all can.
sheshe
Cha
(305,022 posts)It's treasonous in my view. During the bush error I lived in upstate New York and would get CBC with Peter Mansbridge.
Pres Obama's "side" isn't really turning against him.. these people have always been against him. There are still a lot of people who appreciate this President for what he's accomplished in the face of such venomous hostility.
You should check out http://theobamadiary.com/ for an excellent photo -journalism site of the President and his Administration.. Plus, the supporters on there are chock full of reality based information.
Good Luck with Canada getting more Green Energy and your other concerns of water, health care(mental health care especially), and education!
Aloha, riverbendviewgal~
BOG
The Obama Diary
Cha
(305,022 posts)Canadian Flag, sheshe!
Big Maple Leaf.. I love Canada.. got me a grey hoodie there in Niagara Falls one time with a big red Maple Leaf on it.
Yeah, I thought riverbendviewgal might want a look at our The Obama Diary for a good dose of reality.
BOG
riverbendviewgal
(4,317 posts)It is excellent...
I just get discouraged watching US news...sometimes I think Obama is in quicksand. I believe it is his colour that many Americans hate. including my brother, who lives in NJ. All his family and friends in his circle hate Obama and the democrats. They pride themselves on being ignorant of the world. football is their universe..
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)it's still 1972.
His wholesale approval for Obama needs to be evaluated in that context. It is NOT untinged by Sullivan's own biases.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Mandatory Health Insurance from For Profit Vendors
is [font size=3]NOT[/font] "Universal Health CARE".
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)ACA as I understand it is a vast improvement over what it's replacing, or I suppose we could say regulating, which is/was a largely predatory free-market free-for-all that's dandy for those lucky enough to have good insurance and/or a lot of dough but hell for everybody else. So in the main I'd say Sully's point is accurate.
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)I wonder if he still does. Can't think why he wouldn't except that he was awfully harsh on BO after that first debate. But I guess his job as a pundit is to be fickle now and then. In any case thanks for this great find sheshe!