Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:38 PM Jun 2015

Not so fast, fellow Democrats!

For those who still trust our Democratic president when he says we should all look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement before we condemn it, we need to understand 3 out of 4 trade bills just passed Congress. The 'infamous' TAA and the passed but 'apocalyptic' TPA are part of the same Senate package bill, so they both have to be passed together to go to the president's desk for signature. TPA is done -- next week TAA may be reconsidered and voted on.

What next?

...because the trade adjustment assistance provision was an indispensable part of the Senate-passed package, Obama's trade agenda appeared to be dead. Without trade adjustment assistance, there would be no vote on a "fast-track" trade promotion authority. And without fast-track, there would likely be no Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Game. Set ... What now?

Like Hulk Hogan in a headlock, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, quickly pulled off a bold, high-stakes legislative maneuver. His chief lieutenant, Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., called for an immediate vote on "fast track" even without the job training sweetener intended to gain Democratic votes. It passed, 219-211.

That vote kept the trade package alive, but it still needs some form of trade adjustment assistance in order to win Senate support. Practically speaking, that needs to come next week, or it probably won't come at all. But when the congressional leadership and the president agree that when something must pass, it usually does — even if some arms are broken in the process.

Pelosi suggested one path out of the tangle: Tying passage of the trade deal to a job-creating highway bill that Democrats would support.


Could Nancy Pelosi have an endgame where President Obama remains vital and she gets us a job's bill for needed infrastructure?

We'll see...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/12/first-take-obama-trade-deal/71133464/
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Not so fast, fellow Democrats! (Original Post) yallerdawg Jun 2015 OP
Exactly what kind of jobs? onecaliberal Jun 2015 #1
If the bill is so "secret", how do you know this "piece of shit bill that makes nafta look quaint'? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #2
Because the commentators commenting on the leaked draft documents said so ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #5
Most of the talking points do in fact come from Wikileaks. ucrdem Jun 2015 #7
The sovereignty one is so dumb treestar Jun 2015 #24
They're shameless.. I have no respect for any of them. President Obama has earned my Cha Jun 2015 #25
Well, they keep telling us how dumb 2/3 of Democrats are cuz the TPP is "secret", so the next.... Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #14
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #15
Oh my. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #16
I'd put you in the... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #3
If you think cons are going to agree to that, I've got a bridge.... onecaliberal Jun 2015 #4
Yes I think that's right. Pelosi basically stalled for time to let tempers cool. ucrdem Jun 2015 #6
The contempt and disdain towards President Obama... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #8
Oh hell yeah. Levin going on about how he and Rangel had negotiated the Korea FTA was weird too. ucrdem Jun 2015 #9
boy do I agree with you. MBS Jun 2015 #12
Exactly yallerdawg.. I'm so glad I caught your OP in the BOG. Like I've been saying.. I don't Cha Jun 2015 #26
Thanks- I think you're right. MBS Jun 2015 #11
Wait.What?Every single talking head on the Friday nite news was digging the grave &singing the dirge Hekate Jun 2015 #10
There's a few of us, Hekate, who are outspoken about our trusting the President .. he's earned Cha Jun 2015 #27
I wish Democrats could reserve their anger for those most deserving of it. SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2015 #13
Did you really Coolest Ranger Jun 2015 #17
Maybe it's perspective? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #18
EXACTLY. MBS Jun 2015 #19
I am going to remind you Coolest Ranger Jun 2015 #20
huh? if you have me in mind, you've misunderstood profoundly. MBS Jun 2015 #21
I got it! yallerdawg Jun 2015 #22
He posted in the wrong place.. but, he's wrong about the OP, too.. Cha Jun 2015 #28
Admit to being totally confused by all this treestar Jun 2015 #23
Thanks for the article, yallerdawg. First take: Can Obama's trade deal be salvaged? Cha Jun 2015 #29
Great support for President Obama, Cha! yallerdawg Jun 2015 #31
yes, yes, yes -totally agree! MBS Jun 2015 #32
In the debate before voting on TPA today... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #33
Wow,amazing. MBS Jun 2015 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author merrily Jun 2015 #30

onecaliberal

(35,796 posts)
1. Exactly what kind of jobs?
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:53 PM
Jun 2015

More service jobs? Manufacturing has all gone away thanks to previous trade deals. There will be no jobs when everything is under water or without water. This is such a fucking disaster and I don't understand how we went from debating the repeal of nafta in 08 to this piece of shit bill that makes nafta look quaint. When is enough going to be enough. It's not okay to destroy this place because you won't be around for the future generations you are destroying.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
5. Because the commentators commenting on the leaked draft documents said so ...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:17 PM
Jun 2015

Keep up, dammit!

(Do I need the thingy?)

ucrdem

(15,703 posts)
7. Most of the talking points do in fact come from Wikileaks.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jun 2015

Off the top of my head: unprecedented secrecy; loss of US sovereignty; corporate takeover of government; privatization of public utilities; probably others. Dunno if the Post Office meme came from Asshat, but it probably did. I think Warren's original contribution was the phrase "grease the skids" but it wouldn't surprise me if that's borrowed from Wikileaks too. But nearly all the FUD that's been sloshing around in GD for the last 6 months including Sanders' Jan. 7 letter etc, Rushbo's comments, countless columns, blogs, and articles in Salon and HuffPo, EFF and Public Citizen of course, and the complaints repeated by nearly every opposing US rep I heard fulminating on CSPAN this moring can be traced directly to Wikileaks' scary descriptions, which have little or nothing to do with the actual draft chapters, which are very boring.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
24. The sovereignty one is so dumb
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 12:43 PM
Jun 2015

By that logic, we already lost our sovereignty with NAFTA. And every member of the EU would have lost theirs.

Cha

(305,400 posts)
25. They're shameless.. I have no respect for any of them. President Obama has earned my
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:54 AM
Jun 2015

trust over the last 8 years.

Thank you, 1Strong!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,443 posts)
14. Well, they keep telling us how dumb 2/3 of Democrats are cuz the TPP is "secret", so the next....
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:21 PM
Jun 2015

logical question is if it's so "secret", how do they know what the hell is in it? If he disses us "average Americans", then surely he must be privy to some insider knowledge other than "commenters commenting", right?

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
3. I'd put you in the...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:07 PM
Jun 2015

'apocalyptic' camp?

Well, it is very likely there will be no trade agreement passage, so our jobs are safe and all's right in the world!

Nancy Pelosi was talking about US jobs related to the Highway Bill, but maybe the Republican Congress will eventually come around on that.

onecaliberal

(35,796 posts)
4. If you think cons are going to agree to that, I've got a bridge....
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:15 PM
Jun 2015

If NAFTA is any indication how these trade deals work, sorry I don't need a brick wall to fall on me. Even of there was no effect on me, the climate change will kill future generations, that actually matters to me.

ucrdem

(15,703 posts)
6. Yes I think that's right. Pelosi basically stalled for time to let tempers cool.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:53 PM
Jun 2015

I didn't get it when she was speaking but I realize now that the deal must have been hammered out before she said a peep and she knew exactly how it was going to go down. In fact she said something about the TAA coming back for reconsideration, like "they originally said they wouldn't allow a revote but now they've changed their mind." And that was before the vote was taken.

So I think what will happen now is, the TAA will get one or two adjustments, probably minor, and revoted on early next week, when it will pass with much fanfare and will be touted as a win for Dem critics, because by that time the media will have sold the story that Obama was brutally rebuked by Dems and his trade deal defeated, which is what every headline in Google News is still running with, weird. so it's like the Senate billl -- first they said no, then when nobody was looking they said yes.

p.s. who cares how the sausage was made as long it gets done!

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
8. The contempt and disdain towards President Obama...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:11 PM
Jun 2015

which Congressional Democrats started with their bizarre accusations regarding TPA is the saddest reality of this whole thing.

They stand there and look in the camera and tell us there are no enforceable labor and environmental standards -- which is what TPA approval triggers in trade negotiations -- absolutely bewildering!

They are appealing to our lowest common denominator of intelligence, and I feel insulted, too.

ucrdem

(15,703 posts)
9. Oh hell yeah. Levin going on about how he and Rangel had negotiated the Korea FTA was weird too.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:16 PM
Jun 2015

But the weirdest moment was probably when Debbie Dingle, also of MI, got up after being warmly introduced by Levin and proceeded to trash the Korea FTA right in front of him.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
12. boy do I agree with you.
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 05:26 AM
Jun 2015

every single word.
"bizarre accusations", "absolutely bewildering" -oh, yeah.
And it's sad to see my party "appealing to our lowest common denominator of intelligence", especially when the whole irrational shtick is directed to the most thoughtful president in my lifetime.

Cha

(305,400 posts)
26. Exactly yallerdawg.. I'm so glad I caught your OP in the BOG. Like I've been saying.. I don't
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:59 AM
Jun 2015

respect any of them.. them and their disingenuous bullshite/fundraisers. They are very insulting but they know they have suckers galore so they won't feel the shame.. or will they? Not over yet.

PBO has earned my respect.. I trust him.. not them.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
11. Thanks- I think you're right.
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 05:22 AM
Jun 2015

I had the general feeling when Nancy Pelosi was talking that this was some sort of stage-managed act in some way.

Anyway, I think you're right.

Hekate

(94,633 posts)
10. Wait.What?Every single talking head on the Friday nite news was digging the grave &singing the dirge
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 01:49 AM
Jun 2015

I watched Rachel Maddow, Lester Holt, Shield and Brooks. I have to tell you, I ended up feeling sorry for the Prez -- he has had a really rough 6 years with Congress, and now he's got the Dems turning against him in numbers.

I am one of those who still trusts Obama, because he has managed to get a helluva lot done, stuff that benefits all of us ordinary people. It's possible he is mistaken about the final outcome of the TPP, but I grasp his stated motivations and I believe he has been trying as hard on this project as he has on all the rest, such as Obamacare.

The comments in the article you cite are quite intriguing, especially about Nancy Pelosi's role. People at DU are really weird about her, quite dismissive and "little womanish." However, she is known as a consummate politician, highly skilled at getting her goals as a Democrat accomplished in Congress. If USAToday is right about her, the funeral may have to be called off......

Cha

(305,400 posts)
27. There's a few of us, Hekate, who are outspoken about our trusting the President .. he's earned
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 04:02 AM
Jun 2015

my trust.

I believe he knows what he's doing.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,669 posts)
13. I wish Democrats could reserve their anger for those most deserving of it.
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 06:52 PM
Jun 2015

The TPP is a mass of confusion. I've no idea what to make of it now. Legalese is the most difficult language to understand.

Coolest Ranger

(2,034 posts)
17. Did you really
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:55 AM
Jun 2015

I trust the President still over a do nothing congress, but I get the sense that some Democrats are not going to be happy until they can attack the President day in and day out

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
18. Maybe it's perspective?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:07 AM
Jun 2015

I live in a super-majority deep red Republican state - Alabama.

When I come on DU, and my fellow Democrats call Obama and Hillary center-right DINOs, trust me, that is not how my friends and neighbors see HRC and PBO!

I know where the Democratic underground really is!

Coolest Ranger

(2,034 posts)
20. I am going to remind you
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:30 AM
Jun 2015

this is the BOG, so if it is your intention to attack the President you will be found out eventually. I'm not liking the vibe of your original article but I'm going to bow out and let the hosts handle it.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
21. huh? if you have me in mind, you've misunderstood profoundly.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jun 2015

My "exactly" refers to my perception that folks in "liberal-bubble" cities have no idea what Democrats face in red states. Having lived in red areas of blue states, and also in pure-red states, I do know. Therefore, I'm more patient than most on DU, perhaps, with Democratic politicians who might not be as liberal as I would like (for instance, Hillary; and a few of Obama's policies that I might not agree with 100%).
Also, this was not my OP.
Also, I deeply admire, and am both supportive of, and grateful to, President Obama, and I can't begin to figure out how you would think otherwise.
Also, I agree with your reply in #17.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
22. I got it!
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 12:03 PM
Jun 2015

If the OP mentioned is referring to the original article, try to find a positive article about Obama anywhere! This article at least points out a possible salvage to the complete abandonment of the House Democrats of key legislation President Obama has been asking for.

Believe me, unequivocally supporting President Obama on this legislation is a very lonely enterprise for only his staunchest supporters!

Cha

(305,400 posts)
29. Thanks for the article, yallerdawg. First take: Can Obama's trade deal be salvaged?
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 04:11 AM
Jun 2015
We're obviously gratified that we were able to advance that legislation with bipartisan support," he said, noting that the 28 House Democrats who voted for fast-track bill "exceeded expectations." The Democratic magic number was assumed to be closer to 20.

"That's a strong endorsement of the president's strategy," Earnest said. "But what I would concede is that our work is not done yet."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/12/first-take-obama-trade-deal/71133464/

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
31. Great support for President Obama, Cha!
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 07:23 AM
Jun 2015

On several occasions, President Obama has been incredulous that his own Democratic friends and colleagues believe he would support something that could be what they have condemned with such ginned-up extremist babble - and they know better!

He has pointed out they are all merely politicians...

The lack of interest in facts is appalling! Everywhere, opinion and general perception are the be all and end all. Argument and presentation of facts just draws a double-down in wrong-headed blind bubble-thinking.

I used to think 'we' were the smart team...

MBS

(9,688 posts)
32. yes, yes, yes -totally agree!
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jun 2015

I disliked NAFTA, and have railed against the DLC with the best of them, but, sorry, this trade deal is sensible.
And I agree with everything you've said-- I've also been appalled by the "blind bubble-thinking" and shrillness and yelling on our side--

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
33. In the debate before voting on TPA today...
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jun 2015

Democratic leaders were dispensing unbelievable (in my opinion) misinformation.

One in particular said she refused to read the TPP draft available to Congresspersons. If she read it, she would not be able to do these broad criticisms -- in case they were true (or not true?) and then she would have to maintain secrecy! Ignorance is bliss?

Someone read a section of TPA pointing out how this legislation specifically bans any trade agreement outcomes overriding our US laws. He was accused by the same Democratic Congressperson of violating confidentiality by citing sections of the agreement! He had to point out - to a Congressperson! - anyone can go on-line and read the entire proposal - TPA is not confidential and never has been!

The big meme today - by Democrats! - was how could we do deals with a communist country like Vietnam, when not so long ago we were sending our young men and women to fight and die...

Now, why would President Obama be accused of anger and "peevishness"?

I swear...

MBS

(9,688 posts)
34. Wow,amazing.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jun 2015

"refused to read". . . !!!
the Vietnam meme. . !!!!
Just wow.

Once again, you've echoed my exact thoughts, except that you've expressed them in a way that gave me my first real belly-laugh of the day in the midst of my disbelief and frustration.
Thanks.

One cynical thought I've had is that this is some sort of staged act that allows the congressional representatives to get points with the base, and that Obama knows that they'll come through in the end. Would this make it better or worse? I don't even know any more.

All I know is that I'm tired of the yelling and of everything you so perfectly articulated.

Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Barack Obama»Not so fast, fellow Democ...