Starting a new web app: catalyst, rails, or something else?

[Recursion]

I know Perl, Python, Ruby, and LISP well enough to write comfortably in them, and I've used Catalyst, Zope, Rails, and mod-lisp in the past. Curious if anybody has a good argument for one of those, or for a different framework I don't know about. (Yes, I'm willing to learn a different scripting language if necessary; I'd particularly like to get back into ML or Ocaml.)

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. I think Django has a lot to offer.

If you like the MVC ideology. Its python based, but strikes simpler than Zope.
https://www.djangoproject.com/
I don't like the way it handles models though. I don't like the way any of them handle models. We need a fusion of SQL and a scripting language, which totally combines the power of both. Then let the back end basically be the database plus a little scripting, all in the same language. Get rid of translations between a scripting language and SQL in real time. The whole idea of the status quo is basically absurd: Its like the database speaks Russian, and we need a UN translator (models) to convert it to French, the server side scripting language, which will then produce output in English (HTML), with an entourage in consisting of a Spanish speaker (CSS) and a German speaker (Javascript). Its frickin absurd. SQL queries, server side scripting, and client side scripting should all be in the same language.

[Recursion]

2. mod_lisp threads that needle by not doing MVC at all

It assumes you're using CLOS, but then you can either pick your own back-end or (if you're like most LISPers) just write your own; lexically sensible hooks are pretty basic to write (that's usually the example problem at the end of a textbook's CLOS chapter).

I keep meaning to look at Django; maybe I'll give it a shot. Does it integrate well with AJAX and SVG on the front-end?

[napoleon_in_rags]

3. Well, when I used it I wasn't to afraid to hack it up.

To make it do what I wanted. Just a little reading made it possible. If you're looking for a really cogent, ready made AJAX built in system, Django probably isn't it. I read it has some add on functionality, through "tastypie" and "piston" but I haven't tried either of them.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6307992/best-way-to-integrate-django-with-an-ajax-library
But from the link above:

Basically, these libs help you create a fully working read-write API for your models, so you can perform create-read-update-delete operations from your javascript via HTTP. You don't need to define any views or serializers. Instead, you define resources, which is a decent abstraction, I think.

And it usually takes just a few lines of code, especially if your resources are tied to models.

If that sounds good to you, it might be worth looking into.

And I've never done any work with SVG, but as I recall it's a XML based vector graphics language. It wouldn't be hard to change headers from HTML to XML for any view, to create dynamic XML with Django, or really most frameworks.

[Phillip McCleod]

4. i've written for django ..

.. it's biggest weakness yeh is lack of flexibility.. kinda have to do things django's way. of course if you don't mind doing things django's way, it's not a bad way of doing things.

for jquery/ajax in django i write the app as if it were static.. then use the django-dajaxice lib.. here's a link..
http://www.dajaxproject.com/

[napoleon_in_rags]

5. +1 thx. nt

[hootinholler]

6. Depends on a lot of stuff

Like what's the application, how data intensive is it, yadda yadda.

I kinda lean toward ajax backed by a RESTful server these days. Obviously, that doesn't get you any closer to selecting a language, but if you're implementing REST, then J2EE is pretty easy these days with JPA and JSF.