Desperately need a chemist(?) to help me out of the hole I dug.

[IrishAyes]

How can I dissolve a clump of de-icing salt in the exit pipe for my clothes washer?

There was an ice jam in the trap, which can't be reached under the house because the clearance is so low nobody's crazy enough to crawl under there. When boiling water, vinegar and baking soda, and even anti-freeze didn't work on the ice jam, things really went south when I tried de-icing salt, which I had no idea would form an impenetrable clump on top of the ice jam. Even though I've mostly lived green and certainly regret my recent desperate measures, I did put a couple inches of very caustic drain cleaner on top of the clumped de-icing salt, which has done nothing to soften the rock salt clump in 2 days. I'm desperate because I can't find an answer and I can't afford a plumber!!

Putting heat on the pipe won't do anything to relieve the rock salt clump, and the pvc exit pipe is crammed up against the wall anyway, making me fearful of using too much direct heat. I was always afraid of heat tape because I've heard about it starting fires, but believe me, in the future if I can get out of this mess I'll be willing to risk heat tape rather than go through this again. I do learn from my mistakes, and this has been a doozy.

In the belief that this rock salt clump is in the section of pipe above the floor, I'd even be willing to try to cut the pipe off just above the floor, throw away the clogged portion, and refit an extension to restore the proper height. But that in itself presents hazards I'd rather avoid if possible. Of course I don't want to use a much thinner piece of conduit pipe to break off big chunks of the rock salt clump because it might well then fall down into the trap (once the ice melts on its own) and make an even worse problem. Best if I can find a way to dissolve the salt clump and flush it down gradually and safely.

If worse comes to worse, could I siphon off the present caustic drain cleaner and if necessary cut off the pipe down to where the rock salt clump starts, then take a titanium drill bit to it???? Bore through it so whatever might come loose would be in very fine particles? And then extend the exit pipe back to the proper height needed for operating the washer?

[angstlessk]

1. Does hot water disolve salt?

[IrishAyes]

5. Apparently not this kind, once it's clumped. I spent a couple hours at it with a tea kettle,

pouring boiling water down there, waiting 15 minutes and siphoning it out, then repeating. Didn't make a dint. I'm ashamed to say I then put a little caustic drain cleaner on top of the rock salt clump, and two days later, the clump is still impenetrable.

[Adsos Letter]

2. I can't help you, but these guys might be able to...

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/

That's a link to a plumbing forum for DIYer's. I've gotten some very good advice from pros on DIY Chat Forums concerning various projects around our place.

Good Luck!

[IrishAyes]

6. Thanks. That'll be my next stop.

I even posted the problem on my FB timeline, which I never use for social purposes. I joined a particular organization which aggregates progressive website content. But I know my timeline post will be seen by a lot of people. I'm trying to extricate myself!

[Kaleva]

3. With cordless drill...

drill a small hole about where you think the lowest point any liquid may be. Have rags on the floor to catch spillage, wear gloves and have a container to catch the liquid as it streams out of the hole.

Once the liquid is gone, then cut the pipe down near the floor as you think the rock salt clump is above the floor.

You may be able to then thaw out the rest of the pipe by pouring very hot water in it after using rags to dab out as much water as you can before adding the hot water. When that water has cooled and if there still is a blockage, repeat the process.

[IrishAyes]

7. Okay. But I might have to wait another week until the ice jam melts away on its own first.

Otherwise, the only present liquid is just about 3" worth, sitting above the ice jam and the salt jam on top of it. I can siphon out most of that drain cleaner tomorrow, when I get the nerve to deal further with the caustic drain cleaner WHICH I'LL NEVER USE AGAIN, AS GOD IS MY WITNESS!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I don't suppose a plumber's snake would work at this point?

Rock salt should dissolve in hot water, not sure why it didn't in the first place, but maybe you need more of it? If there is caustic drain cleaner in there, though, be careful it doesn't back up. Sounds like quite a dilemma, good luck.

[IrishAyes]

8. I bought a plumber's snake yesterday - should have one anyway - but I think

I'd better wait to try the snake until tomorrow if I survive removing the drain cleaner first.

Oh yeah, I know what I stepped in this time. Live and learn. I've even called the manufacturer of the de-icing salt, and their leading chemist is supposed to call me back - someday. Don't know if he'll have any answers.

[angstlessk]

9. Maybe the frozen water is stopping the hot water from disolving the salt????

Before you start drilling I would wait and try boiling water again and again...after the pipe is thawed...

[IrishAyes]

10. That really makes good sense.

Besides the fact that I'm so twisted in knots over this that my nerves are shot to hell, and I need to walk away from it a few days to avoid premature, over reaction. It's not like there are kids to worry about. After my first visit to the neighbor friend's house, I have enough clean laundry for a week, and she insists that I do at least one more load there. Poor lady is getting housebound because she's in no shape to drive anymore; I don't have a car and love to drive. So one hand washes the other. I do appreciate that she's not the type who thinks favors should only flow in one direction.

Then if worse comes to worse, I bought a tall narrow Christmas wrapping paper container to fit between the washer and dryer; I can reroute the washer hose to that, then carry buckets to the bathroom to dump if necessary - although I hate doing that. Knowing how much worse things could be makes me really embarrassed about my level of distress. I'm so tied up in knots that there are times I just sit down and bawl. Which might have as much to do with cabin fever as anything else.

But you're right in that impatience got me into this but it won't extricate me. I need to pull back a bit.

[TxDemChem]

12. Hubby just pointed out your creativity.

We might have some questions for you one day. Hope all goes well!

[IrishAyes]

14. Thanks - if raging fear counts as creativity! I'm a hysterical mess.

Just asked someone else if the law might look on it harshly if I used a pistol to encourage someone to crawl under this low-sitting house to wrap the pipe and trap for me. The last 8 years of begging and pleading and offering a premium haven't worked.

[TxDemChem]

11. Okay, this is out of my every day chem lab duties,

But I made a mock up of everything you put in. It appears that the drain cleaner (unclogger) is completely settled below the water and bubbles from the baking soda and vinegar AND the salt is still in tact. This is going to be a slow process, but I recommend continual rinses of hot water and perhaps a snake as mentioned above. The salt has settled to the bottom if my test cup and you will have to essentially blast your way through the drain cleaner to get to the salt itself (if you have used draino, it instructs you to flush with hot water. I would say to follow those instructions, but keep in mind that there will be multiple layers to fight through. I hope this helps.

[IrishAyes]

13. Thank you. I'm sure it will help when I return to the matter in a couple days. Very kind of you to

go to so much trouble for an idiot. Someone else suggested I wait for the ice trap to thaw itself for however many days it wants to take, and then proceed. That could make it easier with the plumber's snake. My nerves are too shredded for me to be much use anymore w/o a break. In my current state, there's no telling how much worse I could make things.

Come spring, considering what I've gone through, do you think the law would look on it harshly if I used a pistol to encourage someone to crawl under the house (less than 2' clearance) and wrap that pipe and trap for me? I've already offered a premium w/o takers.

[TxDemChem]

15. I understand completely.

That was a doozy , but I do love experimenting at home , and hubby, being the logistics guy, kept telling me what is and is not feasible. I have been meaning to get a shirt that says, "They let me play with chemicals" since I truly enjoy the craft and can be quite dangerous.

And I'm in Texas, so anything involving a gun seems to be okay with us. Lol gun humor...only funny when no one gets shot.

[IrishAyes]

16. Not to beat this horse to death, but

I was thrilled out of my skull when the cold water started flowing at last in the kitchen and downstairs half bath sink and toilet. Now my only problem is the washing machine exit pipe being blocked. Probably the last place to self-thaw will be the ice jam in the trap, and then I'll be down to the notorious de-icer salt melt jam. After giving the ice jam underneath another couple days to thaw, I'll take on the salt block again with hot water baths every fifteen minutes after first siphoning out the drain cleaner now sitting on top. And the manufacturer's major chemist is supposed to call me this morning for a consultation.

Please extend my thanks to your husband as well. The emotional support from both of you has been most helpful. Yesterday I'd worked myself into a real sorry state, but after a good night's rest I feel much renewed, thank you.

[TxDemChem]

17. I am so glad to hear you have begun to thaw!

Hopefully the salt will be a bit more loose once that pipe gets a good melt going. Sadly, I didn't even think of calling the manufacturer even though my boss does the consulting calls at my job..perhaps it was the vodka I was drinking that allowed that tidbit to slip my mind.

Lol my husband forgot to put the antifreeze back in his trunk and since it was just sitting next to the front door, he felt that would be his chemistry contribution. Then the logistics kicked in and it was utter hilarity. But we do hope you get that drain unclogged with no damage to your pipe. Good luck!

[IrishAyes]

18. Hey, pass me a shot, would you? I could use one. Or a dozen.

At long last, here's what it's come down to. After a couple inches of drain cleaner sat on top of the salt jam for several days now, some of it must've been absorbed because the level kept going down; but when I took the narrow metal conduit and gave a few mighty shoves this afternoon, barely a dint. About that time it dawned on me that even if I succeeded, I might knock off a big enough chunk to fall all the way down to the trap where it couldn't be reached but it would surely plug the pipe forever.

So tonight I removed as much drain cleaner as I could with the turkey baster. Started back with the boiling water. No luck. Tomorrow I'll carefully stuff some paper towels in to make sure nothing is in the liquid state before I try to move the machine over far enough to reach the pipe, say 2" above the floor, drill a test hole to make sure there's no liquid seepage, and then take my precious electric saw after it. I meant it for cutting wood, so pvc will probably ruin the blade. By then the ice jam ought to be gone on its own. I just hope the salt jam doesn't go down that far. I didn't put in all that much! God forbid the salt jam reached within 2" of the floor, but if it did I'll try the plumbers snake.

Then until I can fit a second section of pipe on to restore the original height, I'll have to drain the machine hose into a big plastic bin and haul THAT bucket by bucket to the bathroom sink. It will be great exercise. I should lose several pounds. Strengthen those 68-yr-old back muscles.

One thing for sure, I'll remember this the next time I get impatient or my head swells more than usual. It's amazing that after I escaped the dread burst pipes and missed all sorts of other disasters - plus the one I'm currently faced with might even be fixable on my own after enough blood/sweat/tears/swearing - I can still find enough energy to feel a little sorry for myself. But at least I'm not blaming anyone else, and I still wouldn't trade places with most people. And I'm warning the general innocent public not to do what I did. Maybe this sad experience has at least provided a shred of entertainment for onlookers. Maybe I'm addicted to any sympathic advice available.

Pass the rest of that bottle, would you, please?

[TxDemChem]

19. I shall happily pass along the bottle!

You are tough. Once you mentioned draining the hose and physically tackling the pipe, I was just blown away. I think it may be time for me to get better acquainted with household maintenance.

[IrishAyes]

20. Well, I'm a one-woman wrecking crew!

If blind stubborn stoopid qualifies as tough, I'll cop to that. With the pipe sawed off 2" above the floor, I discovered that salt jam extended still farther. Apparently the stuff expands when it clumps. 2 1/4" pipe length of about 3' and who knows how much more, jammed by about 1/2 cup of rock salt.

Anyway, all's well that ends well. The great handyman I recently met (through references) can do everything a house needs, and he doesn't charge like a plumber or electrician. When I finally gave up and collapsed in a pool of tears, I called him to come look at what I'd wrought. He did laugh - it IS funny - and then said don't worry, in a week he'll come back and w/o undue trouble or expense will a) crawl under the house and wrap the pipes, b) after he's relocated the trap where it should be - at floor level. Mind, that involves drilling through a concrete floor and maybe drilling through thick oak walls of an 1845 cabin (hope not). But the main thing is, he can do the permanent solution.

So I guess all the hellzapoppin' was worth it if you consider the end result. Had I not had such a brain fart, no telling how many years I'd have fuddled along with the problem. Maybe my part was like birthing huge triplets breech w/o an epidural, but oh the rewards afterward!

How's that for spin? Did I ever tell you I dabbled in marketing?

But as usual, Shakespeare was right - all's well that ends well.

[TxDemChem]

21. And you didn't even have to hold a gun to his head!

I hope he won't need to drill into the wall. I'd hate to see anything so old be marred.

Hubby and I are so relieved that you could get some help. And a permanent fix would be awesome.

Lol I love your birthing analogy. I'm going to use it for my next major, frustrating obstacle. But in the end, all will indeed end well.

[IrishAyes]

22. Now that most of the rock salt trap blockage has been cut out, the remaining pipe actually started

to drain. He drilled a hole down the middle with a titanium drill bit. Be assured everything possible will be done to protect that cabin wall; I'm a preservationist at heart. When I bought the place and had the deadly old furnace taken out, we discovered the original brick fireplace in the living room of the house (100 years old). The thing was about to fall apart, and I couldn't afford a full restoration, but the bricks at the top of the 12-foot ceiling looked basically okay for about 8 rows down. Except for the big hole in the middle of the front. Anyway, I wouldn't let the men demolish the upper reaches despite that hole. Pretty soon the hole will be covered by a Sinn Fein flag anyway, and I couldn't bear not to leave some original part of the first fireplace. (It's insulated against heat loss) And I figure that fireplace opening up so high, concealed by an Irish flag, will also make a handy hiding place for protected treasures.

I'm determined to strip down every one of these wood floors and refinish them, even the ones that still have the most horrid carpet GLUED to the floor. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy the way some owners and renters have treated this house.

[TxDemChem]

23. Woo hoo ! We have some water!

It sounds like a lovely cabin. I bet the fireplace and wall will look awesome once you get your flag up. It breaks my heart to see lovely wooden floors underneath carpet and the damage that gets done to them. My grandma redid her house about 10 years ago and discovered beautiful hardwood that ran thought out the house . She and my grandpa had laid carpet in the 60s, but he refused to use harsh chemicals to hold them in place . I remember playing at their house and sometimes tripping on bunched up bits of carpet, but I'm glad they didn't completely ruin them. Her house has taken on a completely new look.

I love looking at old homes and imagining the people who built them and how they did it.

[IrishAyes]

24. Thank you sincerely for helping me survive this. It became traumatic at points.

This might surprise you, but I haven't actually seen the cabin yet. In 1913 a typical-looking New England Queen Anne 2-story house was built around it. The inside cabin walls were covered at some point between then and the time I bought the place in 2005. Also during that period, probably after the original owners died, the place started to fall apart, and it was about 1 day before too late that I bought it at auction. To give you some idea, Lennox said the furnace was probably the first model they ever made! I guess some people tried to fix things up, but when they did, it was crappy beyond belief, butt-ugly from the start. I'm pretty sure the upstairs carpet dates from the 50's or 60's; at least, praise God, it's not GLUED down.

Of course there were tons of emergency measures I had to take immediately and some that had to wait until I turned 62 and could get a comparatively small USDA loan. So now there's a new, permanent heavy duty slate blue metal roof, max insulation everywhere, 21 new E-windows, and at least a start on electrical upgrades. The existing electrical system probably dated from the 30's when rural electrification happened. So it was about 75 years old, very minimal and highly dangerous. Essentially the place was a firetrap about to fall over. But then that's also why I got it at auction for $14,500 too. If it takea the rest of my life to put things to rights; so what? Now it will be done well, with respect and integrity to the original. And I'll have something worth leaving to a good charity like the SPLC. That would really tick off the locals!

Guarantee you one thing: sooner than later, the added walls covering the interior of the cabin will be ripped out to reveal the original massive oak logs. It was a slave cabin, built like a fortress against the Native Americans who understandably wanted their land back, and I want to honor the original occupants however I can. Part of the reason I know so much about the history here is because somebody somewhere preserved every bit of legal paper pertaining to the property, which now rests safe and secure in my bank box. I bless their name. Also the people who built the big house around the cabin, because they made the stairs so steep and narrow that it drove away other potential buyers when I was bidding. Most people around here aren't going to install a stair chair; plus few people have the patience to spend the years and $ it will take to make the house shine again. Since a building's age counts in favor of property taxes, mine are only $183 a year, although 8 years ago it was almost $20 more. The far more modest newer house will run a minimum few thousand a year. I get to make all the improvements I want w/o extra tax, so long as I don't build the house itself bigger. What do I need bigger? Instead of a single huge backyard shed which would've been taxed, I built 2 at either corner, each 11x11, well under the limit. The eventual back patio cover will be about 1" short of taxable.

A lot of people also believe the place is haunted. That sort of thing actually pleases me. So obviously they consider me a bit 'teched' to begin with.

Sorry. You must know how dangerous it is to express the least bit of common interest to lovers of old houses. We're all crazy.

[TxDemChem]

25. Wow!!! That cabin will be quite the task.

I think you are just the person it needed to restore it to its former glory. I bet it will be absolutely lovely. And you've already done so much!

My husband and I were cracking up at your knowledge of property taxes and building regulations. We know nothing about any of that right now, but will begin house hunting in a couple if months. He wants a shed in the backyard, but now we will have to look more closely at the area's restrictions. You kicked a lot of knowledge. He and I are going to have our work cut out for us.

I hope to grow up to be like you. Strong, independent and smart as a whip !

[IrishAyes]

26. You're too kind. Believe me, FAR too kind! I'm the sort of friend your parents warned you about.

Allow me to suggest this, however; if you're house hunting, one of the best people to consult is the county tax assessor. He/she will often have advance knowledge of possible/probable future changes you'd want to know about. I checked on one area before retiring and learned to my dismay that there would be a county-wide reassessment the following year, and an increase of 15-20% would be likely. Talk to planning and zoning, too. You'll learn a lot. If it's a place where the police blotter is public, read that back a year or so - the house you like could be next to a troublemaker. Check the sex offender registry by all means! HOA regs can be onerous, but they do serve a legitimate purpose by and large; do you really want a disruptive 'home' business to open on your block and adversely impact the neighbors? Planning and zoning won't always step up the way they should.

Although it's probably changed by now, there used to be places in the NorthEast where no homeowner would put front steps on the house, because that made the dwelling legally 'complete' and therefore subject to higher taxes. People might live in an 'incomplete' house 40 years! Last but not least, find out how a change of ownership affects taxes. Under CA's Prop 13, the taxes were kept lower unless the property changed hands. Then back to sky high. Can't say I agreed with 13 because it did have a severe impact on funds the state needed to function. But you deal with things as you find them.

The funniest thing that went on in SoCal years ago was the rural barn situation. Barns of course were assessed far under official houses. So what people would do, open and legal, was to build a barn with the intent of later alteration. If they didn't have livestock to put in the barn, they'd borrow or rent a cow and install it before the inspector arrived. When he declared the building to be a legal barn and went his merry way, the owners would dispose of the livestock and then renovate that barn into a very comfortable if unconventional home. Problem solved.

[TxDemChem]

27. Actually, you sound just like the friend my parents would want me to have!

I am going to print this post and keep it in our house hunting paperwork. The areas we've been looking into are all off of a main, but small highway. On Tuesday, she shut down our HOV lanes permanently to start widening the highway for about a 35 mile stretch. I think property values in the adjacent areas will go up soon, now that it will be easier to commute.

I never thought if looking into the tax accessor or planning/zoning offices. Thank you so much for the heads up. Lol we ended up in our current apartment because this is the only area for miles that does not have any sex offenders. We were horrified when we decided to move to this area and saw red flags all over the map, except in this one but if space. We'll have to start that again.

You crack me up with your knowledge. I am so ready to start researching the nuances if home ownership. And the SoCal residents were genius. There are quite a few houses in Tulsa that don't have steps out front, but now I have to ask my grandma if she knows why that is.

If you ever get time or a hankering, I think you could write a bad-ass book on tips and tricks for prospective homeowners. I'd surely buy it!

While I'm sorry your pipe got clogged, I am so happy to have met you. And to think, I had almost talked myself into going to bed before getting in DU. Glad I had trouble sleeping that night.

[IrishAyes]

28. It's been lovely - I mean it. Thanks.

The one caveat about barn switches, even if you can still do them: When you sell, banks don't want to lend on a barn. You'd need to find a cash buyer - easier when the price is lower - or add something to the place that the inspector will want to see and then reclassify as a dwelling. Except some officials nowadays are so anal retentive they might cause trouble. If I followed that plan today, I'd be expecting to hold out for a cash buyer. Helps to know the zoning regs, if you're allowed to live in remodeled farm buildings.

As for house hunting, I'm sure you'll do fine and would've done just as fine w/o my yakking. I just like the subject.

[TxDemChem]

29. House buying is crazy.

You've actually helped us feel a little more confident about taking this next step. Thank you so much!