Were Electronic Voting Machines Hacked? - Did Hillary Actually Win All Those States?

[Yallow]

Last edited Sun Apr 24, 2016, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I read a few reports about certain machines not surviving an audit used for primary voting in Illinois.

Then there's this...

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/17/the-big-2016-danger-may-be-electronic-voting-machines/

The (primary) votes were counted by "The Party" and reported.

What could go wrong there?

It is amazing where there were caucuses, and voting was open to inspection, Bernie won overwhelmingly.

Maybe there is no cheating.

From what I have seen in the past (Don Siegelman) I don't trust "The Party" to do anything fair in the coronation of their chosen queen. I would bet everything I own that the votes "reported" were not what was cast.

Conspiracy? Maybe, but from what I've seen, election fraud is to be expected. You vote, and the counters tell you who won with their secret, non open source, easily hacked garbage software. Sounds perfectly fair right? Zero verification in many areas.

We're so screwed.

[dchill]

1. "What could go wrong there?"

You're looking at it.

[tikka]

2. The electronic voting system has been abused from the start

W won his second term by manipulation in Ohio. The claims of proprietary software keeps the public from really asserting the validity of elections. This article at the link shows how any attempt to check the system will be stonewalled. This should be of national concern, but gets minimal attention.

http://boingboing.net/2015/08/10/kansas-officials-stonewall-mat.html

[stopbush]

3. The results have reflected the polls leading into the contests.

The only surprise was MI. If you want to look for irregularities, start with the outlier that didn't confirm the projections.

[RoccoR5955]

8. What about the purging in Brooklyn.

Oh, I guess that doesn't count, because Hillliary won.

[stopbush]

10. Well, those problems in Brooklyn affected Hillary, not Sanders.

And she still won.

[greymouse]

56. really?

Voters blocked in Bernie's home territory, and it affected Hillary, sure. Well, it did affect her, she got more of a percentage.

[Chicago1980]

71. Bernie's "home" territory whee he hasn't lived in how many decades?

[pnwmom]

97. Isn't that a joke? He turned his back on Brooklyn in his twenties and made his home in VT.

Hillary, meanwhile, left Illinois to go to college and never looked back. She followed her husband to Arkansas and D.C. And when it was finally her turn, she CHOSE N.Y. as the place she wanted to be.

It's much more her home than his.

[pnwmom]

96. Hillary was the strongest in all 5 boroughs. Brooklyn was in for Hillary, not Bernie.

He hadn't made Brooklyn his home for 50 years. Other than a few so-called "hipster" neighborhoods, most of Brooklyn voted for Hillary, who had her campaign headquarters there and had spent MUCH more time in Brooklyn and everywhere else in NY over the last number of years.

Bernie thought he could drop in with his accent, run lots of TV ads, and change everyone's minds. He couldn't.

[questionseverything]

128. so said the blackboxes

this op shows even when audits show votes are not reported accurately the local election officials cover it up

your retort that says, but hc is ahead is meaningless

[pnwmom]

141. The OP doesn't apply to NY because NY doesn't use electronic voting machines--only verifiable paper.

This is true since November 2010.

http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/news/2010-10-28/Local_News/Using_The_New_Optical_Scan____Paper_Ballot_On_Elec.html

This Election Day, Tuesday, Nov. 2, voters across New York State will go to the polls and use an optical scan voting system in which participants cast their votes on a paper ballot which are then fed through a scanner.

As noted by the New York City Board of Elections, the scanner tabulates the votes after polls close on Election Day. The new polling system provides a verifiable paper record and allows all voters—including those with disabilities—to vote privately and independently at their polling place.

The new way to vote is simple. Fill in the ovals next to the names of the candidates of your choice on a paper ballot using a pen or a ballot marking device. Once you have made your choices, insert the ballot into the scanner to cast your vote.

Instead of using a pen, a ballot marking device (BMD) is available to assist any voter in marking a paper ballot.

SNIP

[questionseverything]

142. they count the paper ballots with optical scanners that are electronic

that are easily manipulated

[pnwmom]

143. The paper ballots remain and can be easily verified. nt

[questionseverything]

145. except they aren't verified

in the video of the chicago boe meeting the activists testify that the lawyer for the boe refused to enter the ballots face up so the activists could do a hand count

this stuff has gone on forever and people pretend (like you are) that the average citizen has any oversight or control

there is a group in az that sued for years to get transparency...all they wanted was for ballots to be scanned and those files made public so anyone could count the votes for themselves if they chose..it was patterned after the humbolt county project (where activists found that entire blocks of votes were dropped)

the repubs and the dems teamed up to defeat them

http://fatallyflawedelections.blogspot.com/

http://www.sweetremedy.tv/fatallyflawed/media/RTA_Fraud_Flyer_3_7_12.pdf

democracy is built on checks and balances, we the people have every right to oversee our own elections

the ptb work overtime to be sure we are not allowed to do that

[Wibly]

69. How so?

How exactly did the purges impact Clinton? Please provide some sort of evidence in your reply.

[Old Crow]

9. Exit polls are the way to verify the integrity of elections.

It's how elections have been monitored internationally for decades. And when you check the exit polls against the results in this Democratic primary, 18 of 19 states have swung in Hillary Clinton's favor, many of them way past the margin of error. The likelihood that 18 of 19 would swing in one direction is 25,000 to 1.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4g3x5h/investigative_journalism_why_bernie_may_have/

[HeartoftheMidwest]

24. And Bernie won MA:

MA Primary: Unadjusted Exit poll Indicates Bernie won

https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2016/03/02/ma-primary-unadjusted-exit-poll-indicates-bernie-won/

[Old Crow]

25. Interesting piece. Thanks for directing me to it! (N/T)

[HeartoftheMidwest]

31. You're welcome.

Seems the Repub and the Dem Oligarchs use the same playbook now:

1) STRIP-N-FLIP. Strip the voter rolls of all who might vote against your candidate. Purge, purge, purge. After all, disenfranchised voters can submit a paper ballot to be counted later ( dumpster, here it comes! )...then, FLIP the vote electronically when the tallies for each candidate are nearly equal. Be sure to keep all processes out of the public eye.

2) SCREAM over and over that you've won. Helps to have the mainstream media in your back pocket.

3) REWARD all the party apparatchiks who helped you "secure" the victory. Pay them well, so they have no incentive to rat you out.

4) Make sure voting and election reform is squelched. Why fix what works so well for the Elite?

[sorechasm]

90. 5) Accuse all criticism of obvious election anomalies as the product of conspiracy theory whiners.

6) Claim shock after the election. Scapegoat some lowly government worker.

7) Forget the whole process until the next election when it's too late once again to react.

8) Rinse and repeat.

This has been the pattern by both parties since the 2000 Selection.

[HeartoftheMidwest]

98. Well done!!

You nailed it.

[Ghost Dog]

103. As international observer here since 2003 I concur,

and also observe some half-cooked frogs thrashing in the hot water, a little, not much. It will soon all be over.

[rhett o rick]

125. Well said. The reason nothing gets done to fix the election process is that we expect something

from the process that is not reasonable. Many of us still believe that the enemy of voting process is the Republicons. That Democrats are the good guys. But why didn't the Democratic Party (the leaders) do anything about the obvious election fraud we've seen in the past? The answer is that the Party elite don't care. They don't want a honest process because they work for the Oligarchy. The enemy of our free and fair election process is the Oligarchy not the Republicons. The Oligarchy wants Clinton in the WH.

The only solution is to regain power of our government from the Oligarchs. If we can't do that, all else is lost.

[Major Hogwash]

88. And the hits just keep coming.

I'm so glad that she's the one.

*sigh*

[Enthusiast]

29. Disturbing.

We had one president that relied of election fraud to put him in office. We don't want another.

[Old Crow]

36. That was my reaction also: "Disturbing."

The mathematical odds are inarguable, but it's hard to accept. People prefer to ignore information like this or discount it because the ramifications are profound and upsetting.

For decades, the United States has policed elections in other countries all over the world, relying on the allied sciences of statistics and exit polling. Yet here at home, when those same methodologies are indicating that our elections reek to high heaven, no one wants to talk about it.

[Enthusiast]

42. Precisely.

[berniepdx420]

60. + infinity

[dlwickham]

65. Because people always answer truthfully

Right?

[aggiesal]

67. The way to verify the integrity of an election ...

J Sqs
is to hand count the ballots before sending them through the machine.
Then both should match, period.

When I was doing election integrity in San Diego, the long time poll workers
would tell me that they had all ballots in their precinct counted by 11pm.
None of the wait till 6am to complete counting the ballots.

[Old Crow]

78. If ballots can be hand-counted, yes.

The problem is that many votes are now cast on electronic voting machines where hand-counting paper ballots isn't possible.

[aggiesal]

124. I agree ...

Everyone should be pressuring their Registrar of Voters or whatever title your local head election official uses,
to start using a paper ballot.
We use a paper ballot in San Diego County, then feed them through the scanner to count the ballots.
There are approximately 2000 precincts in all of San Diego County.
But we only have around 200 scanners.

In the past, when the polls closed, the precinct workers would hand count the ballots, and
every ballot was counted by 11pm., midnight in the larger precinct.

Then the form with all the tallied numbers along with the ballots were sent to the ROV to record.

But since we only have 10% of the scanning machines to the number of precincts, it becomes a huge
hassle to make sure all the ballots are counted. There is huge conveyor system of workers trying
to count the ballots, and they don't finish until about 6am.

Then scanners and the hand count should match, otherwise hand-counting only the election
that did not match should occur.

[berniepdx420]

59. And I am 100% sure the polls and pollsters could never be bought and sold....

[RoccoR5955]

4. Technically, it's not election fraud

it's voter suppression.
Election fraud would be if voters actually voted fraudulently, and their votes were counted. Who knows, this could have been done too.

[Old Crow]

11. Not exactly.

Voter fraud is when a voter votes fraudulently ("Vote early and often&quot .

Election fraud is when legitimate votes have been tampered with ("It's not the people who vote that count; it's the people who count the votes&quot .

[Kip Humphrey]

18. this is correct.

[Fiendish Thingy]

13. No that would be voter fraud

Election Fraud, or more accurately, electoral fraud, is when votes are legitimately cast, but then deliberately switched or miscounted to change the outcome.

Voter suppression is when those who should be able to vote are denied that right, or the path to exercising that right is made so onerous (lines, registration deadlines, purges, too few machines, ID barriers,) that voters give up or are otherwise prevented from voting.

[SusanCalvin]

45. No, what you describe is voter fraud.

But I'm just glad it's being discussed.

[All in it together]

111. Voter fraud is what you said was election fraud, voter fraud is pretty rare.

Election fraud is when there are shenanigans with the voting machines or counters which has been shown to be quite easy and messes with our democracy. It invalidates the election returns possibly entirely.

[felix_numinous]

5. We cannot have another stolen election

no matter who is responsible. Though it is disturbing and revealing to have one side eager to declare themselves a winner and to rush through the election process even though it is obviously been tampered with.

We cannot allow these bullies to mock the democratic process and attempt to give us the bums rush while we count all the votes!

[RoccoR5955]

12. The primaries have already been stolen,

so like it or not, the election has already been stolen.

[felix_numinous]

14. I agree

it is hard for people to face, because it needs a response from us. We have to demand our votes be counted, and maybe do some elections over. We are at a crossroads.

[bbgrunt]

16. ...and given the positions of the "frontrunners", which party wins may not make a big difference.

[cstanleytech]

17. Not getting enough voters to vote for your preferred choice does

not = stolen elections.
Yes, I realize that you and alot of Sanders supporters are upset but claiming it's been stolen without any proof just sounds of sour grapes and I speak as someone who honestly believes either Hillary and Bernie would be good Presidents in their own way.

[Old Crow]

22. If you are able to view the situation objectively...

... which is rare around here, but I believe your assertion, please take a look at the following. Thanks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4g3x5h/investigative_journalism_why_bernie_may_have/

[felix_numinous]

44. Nice

From your link:

After all votes are tabulated, exit polls are “adjusted” to match recorded results. According to NPR, for this election cycle, a firm called Edison Research conducts the polling used by major networks. Exit polling has not been conducted for every contest thus far. Here are the unadjusted exit polls against the final results (significant discrepancy | state flip; data source):

State Sanders Margin of Victory, Actual Results Sanders Margin of Victory, Exit Polls ---------> Difference (in Clinton’s favor) <------------
Arkansas -38.1 ,-31.4, 6.7
Alabama -60.4 ,-44.7, 15.7
Tennessee -34.2 ,-25.4, 8.8
Virginia -29.3 ,-24.8, 4.5
Georgia -43.4, -31.0, 12.4
Texas -32.6, -22, 9.9
Mass- 1.4, 6.4, 7.8
Oklahoma 11.1, 4. , -6.8
Vermont 72.7, 73.6, 0.9
Mississippi -66.8, -56.4, 10.4
Michigan 1.7, 6., 4.5
North C -14.5, -12.7, 1.8
Florida -31.9 , -27.9 , 4.0
Missouri -0.2, 3.8, 4.0
Ohio -13.9, -3.8, 10.1
Illinois -1.8, 2.3, 4.1
Arizona* -8.2, 25.0, 33.2
Wisconsin 13.4, 27.2, 13.8
New York -16.0, -4.0, 12.0

[jwirr]

38. When the same problems show up in state after state there

is reason to wonder. And that is what we are doing - wondering.

Also given the 33 state democratic party deal with the DNC and the Hillary Victory Fund made long before any debates or even voting there is reason to believe the state parties can be bought.

You are expecting us to just sweep these things under the rug? Why are they having an investigation in NY, NV, IA, ILL if there is nothing to suggest that there might have been a problem?

[cstanleytech]

85. No, I am not expecting you to sweep anything under the rug I am just pointing out that

Bernie losing isnt proof because candidates do lose elections.

[jwirr]

95. As far as I know no one has suggested that.

[Enthusiast]

30. Too late. It has already happened.

[felix_numinous]

34. It has

I am parsing my words because it is hard to face, but face it we must.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

6. Do you often visit Ed Morrissey's website for news on Democrats?

I find it's usually a bad idea to go to asshole conservatives like Morrissey when you want an opinion on Democrats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Air

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Morrissey

Any port in a fucking storm.

[Orrex]

15. The More You Ignore Him, The Closer He Gets

[Old Crow]

7. The best analysis of the exit poll discrepancies I've seen...

... where 18 of the 19 discrepancies swung in Hillary Clinton's favor, including four states that were flipped from Sanders wins to Clinton wins, puts the odds of that happening at 25,000 to 1.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4g3x5h/investigative_journalism_why_bernie_may_have/

[stillwaiting]

19. I said this would happen before primary voting began.

I.e. Bernie would beat corporate polling in caucus states, and HRC would beat corporate polling and exit polling in states that vote on computers.

To me, this was entirely and easily predictable.

Why would they not do this when it is so easy to do and there is so very much money at stake?

Regardless, maybe now we'll organize and demand changes. Bernie delegates will have enough power to demand this at the convention no matter who wins. I hope they organize to demand systemic election and voting changes. Super delegates be gone. Instant runoff voting implemented. This could be done entirely within the Democratic Party, and it would make it much more democratic.

[zeemike]

58. And you are not the only one.

When big money is involved the outcome is predictable...the game is rigged.

But they have the perfect foil for anyone who might notice...the Conspiracy Theory.
Something they can drag out to dismiss anyone who speaks up or complains.

And I have my doubts that anything will ever be done about it...once the nomination is secured you will hear nothing of it again in any media or even here at DU.

[stillwaiting]

73. Enough of us are mobilized with Bernie to make this an issue at the Convention.

I hope we wouldn't have to wait for Bernie to advocate for specific and clearly needed changes to our election and voting systems. The sheer strength of Bernie's campaign could provide enough visibility to demand the elimination of super delegates and the installation of instant runoff voting within the Democratic Party. Bernie delegates need to make some noise and flex a little bit of muscle here and now. It's the perfect time to do it.

This political revolution must BEGIN by reforming election and voting systems or we are going to stay on the neo-liberal Reagan Express for a very, very long time.

[zeemike]

84. We can't expect Bernie to lead this.

If he did all the media and the Third Way would do is drag out the sore loser meme and marginalize it.
It must come from the grass roots.

But I am a pessimist and think that if they get away with it this time there will be no chance to change anything. At least in my lifetime.

I regret being such a downer.

[stillwaiting]

86. I agree we can't expect Bernie to lead us.

Bernie delegates can still force the issue at the Convention though, and it is what I am hoping happens.

[Yallow]

20. Did This Crap Happen In The Primaries?

Siegalman Screwed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/flap-over-alabama-statehouse-race/

"Siegelman demanded a recount Thursday. He pointed in particular to Baldwin County, where elections officials reduced his tally by about 7,000 votes late Tuesday - enough to give Riley the victory."

They "reduced his tally". Get it?

That, and this unverified crap is beyond stink.

This isn't conspiracy.

The election was stolen, and it is a fact.

But for complaining, Siegelman got 10 years in prison.

We're so screwed.

[Yallow]

21. A Nice Even Number

Just enough for the Republican to declare victory.

[Enthusiast]

32. Actually it was a conspiracy. It was a conspiracy to engage in election fraud.

[SusanCalvin]

46. Yep. That too. nt

[saidsimplesimon]

23. Yallow, for a paper record

All 50 states need a method to verify any electronic voting. I'm all for a back to the future approach, paper ballots along with the less resource intense vote by mail option.

[lostnfound]

62. The Chicago election board audit is particularly frustrating because even audit of paper records...

May get ignored.

[LiberalArkie]

101. Paper ballots have always been easy to screw with.

[All in it together]

118. Paper ballots are re-countable, but there's no paper trail on voting machines.

Verifiable openly counted paper ballots are the way to go.

[questionseverything]

127. paper ballots counted openly,live streamed on the net, with multiple observers would be difficult to

manipulate

with blackbox voting a few clicks and thousands of votes can be changed

[LiberalArkie]

129. It used to be that people made out their paper ballot and stuffed them into the ballot box at the

school or church or wherever the precinct voting was taking place. Then the ballot box was transported by a deputy to the court house.

On route the ballot box was opened destuffed with "proper ballots" and resealed and delivered to the court house.

You can count those ballots for eternity and the vote will always be the same.

Or you can let Kim Davis go to each precinct and count the ballots there.

Or you can bring in all the media and verify all the counting like was done in 2000 in Florida.

[questionseverything]

130. hand counted paper ballots at the precinct is the answer

[LiberalArkie]

132. It would take a while since the county clerk has watch the counting so that the county

clerk can certify the totals. This would have to happen at each voting location.

As long as each party trusts the county clerks and the deputy clerks it works out.

[questionseverything]

139. no the county clerk does not have to watch the counting

each precinct has several election judges that verify that they all agree the report they sign are the accurate numbers

election should not come down to TRUSTING ANYONE, we need a system we can trust and oversee with our own eyes

[Gman]

26. HotAir is a right wing nut website.

[Yallow]

35. It Was Just The First Google Search Result

Electronic voting machines, and their tabulators have been, and are currently being hacked, and their totals manipulated.

If you don't believe this, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Gman]

119. It's still a right wing website

I don't know if the info is accurate or not in the article. More reliable sources have better info.

[SmittynMo]

27. Welcome to the digital age

Where there is no audit trail, and numbers are easily manipulated.

Yep, We're soooooooooooo screwed.

[libodem]

28. It's the inevitability

That has bugged me for the last 8 years, and for the last 18 months, specifically.

At least there is an appearance of a contest.

Inevitability and Democracy are not compatable.

[kpola12]

33. When peaceful revolution becomes impossible violent revolution becomes inevitable.

[jwirr]

43. And those were JFK's words for anyone who is interested.

[Dragonfli]

114. yes, as we were warned...

[Yallow]

37. Election Fraud Found In Illinois, But Who Cares Right

Nothing on CNN, or MSNBC.

"Election Fraud Proven at Audit by Chicago BOE - flipped precinct by 18pts from Bernie to Hillary"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/21/1518460/-Election-Fraud-Proven-at-Audit-by-Chicago-BOE-flipped-precinct-by-18pts-from-Bernie-to-Hillary

I wonder if ALL of the results are being tampered with.

Secret machines, secret tallying, secret code, secret fraud in my opinion.

[OhZone]

39. No and yes. nt

[Merryland]

40. We'll have paper ballots as well as electronic in Maryland

if anybody needs to do a recount - which should have been going on in all those states where fraud was suspected.

[Cryptoad]

41. Welll u went to the right source,,,,,,,

"Hot Air",,,,,,,, that RW tower of knowledge and Rumor! LMAO

[Yallow]

48. Went Right To The Google

Here's another one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1091&pid=1800

"Election Fraud Proven at Audit by Chicago BOE - flipped precinct by 18pts from Bernie to Hillary"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/21/1518460/-Election-Fraud-Proven-at-Audit-by-Chicago-BOE-flipped-precinct-by-18pts-from-Bernie-to-Hillary

[Peace Patriot]

47. The very counting of our votes was PRIVATIZED during the 2002 to 2004 period,

with 'TRADE SECRET' code introduced to every voting system in the country, thus also creating many entry points for election fraud in several forms, whether by direct rigging of the voting results or stripping of voters from the voting rolls or other crimes.

This is the truth and I hope that we, as a people, realize it, at long last, and rise up and DO something about it.

Time to have a REAL "Boston Tea Party," eh?

[SusanCalvin]

50. ^THIS^

[Yallow]

51. You Can't Say Tea Party

You might get real patriots mixed up with Teabagger Republicans who want to destroy our entire government.

[SusanCalvin]

49. HAVA was a big scam. And poor ol' Rush Holt got taken in. nt

[RoccoR5955]

89. HAVA=Hinder Americans from Voting Act!

I know that Dubya called it something different, but this is what it is. Just as so much legislation these days. The titles are the exact opposite of what the legislation proposes.

[Yallow]

52. HAVA = Electronic Voting Machines = Oligarchs Get More Control

Do the math.....

[KansDem]

53. Yes and no. nt

[liberal N proud]

54. LOL

[AlbertCat]

68. LOL... again

Why do Hillary and her supporters laugh off serious concerns by others?.... us "little insignificant people".


and where's the "YAWN"?

[RandySF]

55. .

[Yallow]

57. Chicago Board Of Elections = Tin Foil Hats Too?

Election Fraud Proven at Audit by Chicago BOE - flipped precinct by 18pts from Bernie to Hillary

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/21/1518460/-Election-Fraud-Proven-at-Audit-by-Chicago-BOE-flipped-precinct-by-18pts-from-Bernie-to-Hillary

You are obviously posting from a different universe/dimension than the one in which we never know if our votes are actually counted, and tallied correctly, and the actual winner is declared.

Zero verification.

Easily hacked machines, and tabulation.

[Yallow]

61. How To Hack A Voting Machine

And to think our democracy relies on this crap.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+hack+a+voting+machine

And the future of our entire planet, and race too.

Might as well vote on toilet paper ballots.

[beastie boy]

63. Were electonic voting machines hacked? Did Bernie actually win all those states?

How is Bernie's relationship to the allegedly possibly maybe hacked machines any different from that of Hillary?

[AlbertCat]

70. any different from that of Hillary?

Well, she has the whole Third Way political machine behind her.

She is determined not to lose a primary.... again.

She's been voted more "untrustworthy"

She and her cronies have already fooled around with electronic data in an effort to make Sanders look bad.

More questionable discrepancies are positive for Hillary, not Sanders.

etc

etc

[beastie boy]

74. That's your proof that the voting machines were not "hacked" in Brnie's favor?

How's this for proof: Hillary has an advantage of 2+ million in popular vote and 240+ pledged delegates over Bernie!

Do discrepancies get any more questionable or positive for Hillary than this?

A clear sign that voting has been rigged in her favor!

[AlbertCat]

75. That's your proof that the voting machines were not "hacked" in Brnie's favor?

No.

That's not what we're talking about. My post has nothing to do with this new subject you have included.

My answer was merely about:


"How is Bernie's relationship to the allegedly possibly maybe hacked machines any different from that of Hillary?


Try to stay on subject.

[beastie boy]

80. I am on subject. That was only half of my post.

You replied to the entirety of my post. And if you choose to reply to the part you quoted, the below doesn't answer my question.

She is determined not to lose a primary.... again.

She's been voted more "untrustworthy"

She and her cronies have already fooled around with electronic data in an effort to make Sanders look bad.

More questionable discrepancies are positive for Hillary, not Sanders.

Is Bernie not determined to win a primary?

Does a vote of "untrustworthy" hack the machines in Hillary's favor?

What is your proof that it was Hillary's cronies and not Bernie's who hacked the machines in order to make Hillary look bad?

While discrepancies may be more positive for Hillary, how does it prove hacking?

[RoccoR5955]

93. You folks and your vote popular votes.

They do not include caucuses, which bring out far fewer people, due to their nature, and makes the point moot.
Give it up already!

I can show you how to hack today's voting machines in a NY minute!

Here's an article from Popular Science for you that will show you how to hack one of the models: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2012-11/how-i-hacked-electronic-voting-machine
Another article from The Guardian tells us that passwords are quite simple: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/15/virginia-hacking-voting-machines-security

[beastie boy]

99. Hmmm... a Bernie supporter who knows how to hack a voting machine...

Should I infer something from this and start making wild speculations? You make it very tempting!

And if you don't want to count popular vote, you can always go with delegates. But you seem to have a problem with this too, dontcha?

So what do you suggest, a coin flip?

[RoccoR5955]

100. A coin flip with the double headed coin and you calling it, I presume. n/t

[beastie boy]

102. You are not accepting popular vote and/or delegate count as a measure of election outcome.

And now you are rejecting a coin flip because... you presume it to be rigged?

What then, a staring contest? Now tell me how THAT is going to be rigged against Bernie!

[Yallow]

104. Actually Watching MSNBC Show Delegate Math Counting Super Delegate Totals

And Bernie starting hundreds of delegates behind before the first primary vote is cast stinks to high heaven.

It's rigged. A blind man who has been dead 20 years could see that.

[beastie boy]

108. So a staring contest is OK by you to determine the winner?

We already know a coin flip will be rigged against Bernie...

[RoccoR5955]

109. Oh, good

another troll. Good luck, you have made it to my iggy list!
You paid trolls have to understand that we are on to you.
Active since april of this year. Nice try.

[beastie boy]

112. You seem to be fresh out of suggestions for how to determine a winner of the primaries.

It's not the popular vote, which is rigged against Bernie. It is not the delegate count which is rigged against Bernie. It is not a coin toss which is easily rigged against Bernie, and it is not a staring contest which you don't even comment on but I am sure is somehow rigged against Bernie...

So what's not rigged against Bernie?... I know, "You are a paid troll!" is not rigged against Bernie! Brilliant! Works every time!


OK, since you know so much about me, tell me how much do I get paid, and where do I collect? Or am I rigging this too much against Bernie?

[Yallow]

113. You Forgot Campaign Contributions Being Illegally Washed Through The DNC

And a few other things.

Like the media being part of the HRC campaign.

[beastie boy]

115. Ah, good thing you remember the things that don't exist!

Otherwise, no one would have paid attention to them.

BTW, Bernie is outspending Hillary on media by a margin of 2 to 1. If media is part of HRC campaign, does it mean that media is two parts of Bernie's campaign?

[Yallow]

116. I Watched The MSNBC Crew Trash Bernie Non Stop

Lying, and twisting everything to make Hillary look good, and undermine Bernie.

Bernie did outspend Hillary in New York.

Doesn't make up for the in your face bias, and discounting of his message by the ptb owned media scum.

[beastie boy]

117. Bernie outspent Hillary in the US

2 to 1. All those tens of millions went to the ptb media scum. Comforting to know, isn't it?

And I watched Thom Hartman and the TYT crew and the Reddit crew undermine Hillary. What of it?

[dreamnightwind]

133. That's only hard money to the campaign, Hillary gets much of hers through other organizations

that aren't included in those figures. But you knew that.

[beastie boy]

135. You want me to include PAC money? OK.

When all the money is counted, Bernie is still outspending Hillary.

http://fec.gov/disclosurep/pnational.do

But you knew that.

[dreamnightwind]

136. SuperPACs

And don't try that one about they aren't actually part of a campaign, I'm aware of the legal distance they must keep, but in Hillary's case they have stretched the definition and coordinate with Brock's people over the internet, as Brock freely admits.

The overall money situation isn't even close. Not to mention all the establishment hit-jobs her surrogates get to launch for free in the corporate media.

[beastie boy]

140. Couldn't find data on super pac spending, but here's what they raised:

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/outsidegroups.php

Hillary's super pacs outraised Bernie's by about 3 million. Even if they spent half of it exclusively on their respective candidates, an extra $1.5 million added to Hillary's spending still makes Bernie the bigger spender.

[dreamnightwind]

146. You just keep deflecting

First you were accused of troling, and your defense was to make light about having been called a paid troll (you weren't called that, the paid part of the accusation was all yours).

Then you took a statement that "the media" had been in the tank for Hillary as opposed to Bernie (undeniable IMHO) and you immediately deflect to argue about Bernie's media buys, when the poster said "the media", another misdirection.

Then you made claims about Bernie's money raising that were selective and only included portions of the money you wanted to include, which you twice had to reconsider because of that being pointed out to you. You know a certain percentage of this money is dark money and as such there is no record of how much was given.

I'm done with this whole thing.

[beastie boy]

148. I accept your surrender. Hard as you may, you can't argue with the numbers.

[Scootaloo]

79. It's a fair question. So. You're in favor of a full audit?

Each state. Just to be sure.

[beastie boy]

81. Absolutely!

If for no other reason than to stop all those batshit crazy conspiracy theories!

Of course, there are better reasons than this, but I am really tired of everyone throwing accusations and innuendo around without a single grain of proof to back them up, and demanding that I draw conclusions on that basis.

[Scootaloo]

82. Cool. I look forward to your OP calling for it.

[beastie boy]

83. And I look forward to your OP advocating for gun control

or cute puppies, or world peace.

When I favor something, I favor it.

When I want to say something, I say it. But I never get gratuitous with my speech.

[passy]

64. I posted earlier about some of there strange results in New York

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10911745

Looks like the results were typed in.

[valerief]

66. Democracy is a lip service item only. nt

[SansACause]

72. Did Bernie actually win those states?

No, he did not. And he's going to lose big again on Tuesday. Check Huffpollster or fivethirtyeight. Unskew those however you want. Goodbye, Bernie.

[MFM008]

76. Darn

I guess I didnt really vote for HRC, with my own hands....
So many people jumping the shark, its looks like the set of Sharknado in here.

[Jackilope]

77. How can we fix this? I do not trust either party.

It is really sad, but with Third Way at the head of Democratic Party, I at the point of realizing we need full on revolt and wondering if that can only be accomplished by a third party.

[Vote2016]

87. There is a shameful lack of transparency.

[randr]

91. The question of voteing manipulation is serious

We are always assured the the system we have is in place to safeguard our votes.
I propose that the system we have is in place so our votes can be manipulated.
For proof I offer the fact that we spend countless billions of dollars in every conceivable manner each and every day. The computerized electronic banking is not prone to mistakes. In fact over the course of my life they have never misplaced a red cent or credited my account mistakenly.
If we have the capability to count each and every cent spent each and every day we certainly have the technical expertise to accurately count our votes once every two years.
The fact that we do not use as trusted a system as the financial industry uses leads me to believe that the only reason we don't is so the antiquated system we do use can be misused.

[jpmonk91]

92. The electronic voting scares me

I don't trust the system at the moment. That could explain what happened in New York for sure. That's why I don't do electronic voting.

[Thespian2]

94. As long as private money

controls elections, no results can be fully trusted. Until private money is out of politics, fraud will always be a possibility...

Vote on paper ballots...count the votes by hand...one person from each party counting...Other than this method, be prepared for fraud...

[ish of the hammer]

105. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." -

- Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili

[sulphurdunn]

106. Nothing could be sillier

than to accept the evidence that our political system is rigged to benefit moneyed interests and then assume that our elections are not.

[questionseverything]

110. exactly...look at everything the ptb do right in front of us

it is foolish to think when the 1%ers machines count the votes that those counts would not be corrupted

[WhiteTara]

107. The only real win is

when Bernie does. All else is illegitimate.

[eridani]

120. The thing about touchscreen voting is that you never know for sure what happened

With scanners, you can do hand count audits, but this is not done nearly as much as it needs to be done.

[Scuba]

121. In 2009, Democrats in DC had an opportunity to protect our elections and voting rights.

They passed.

Kinda like Florida 2000 never happened.

Kinda like Ohio 2004 never happened.

[colsohlibgal]

122. I Sure Don't Trust Them

I am as sure as I can be that the 2004 Bush win over Kerry was a flip....and I am fairly sure of others, like the recent pot vote in Ohio. The pot vote was like the recent Governor race in Kentucky...all polls showed both to be close races and they came out as routs.

Thinking this is no tinfoil hat thing, there is really no audit trail, and the flip always seems in favor of the more conservative candidate or issue. Always.

[FlatBaroque]

123. I am 100% certain that the fraud that has been

Committed has been monumental. I believe that unless a whistleblower comes forth, we will never know how fraudulent this primary has been. And yet, with every possible advantage the Queen is unable to ascend to her throne.

[ViseGrip]

126. NO...she did not.

[SmittynMo]

131. Old VS New? Proposed?

Old - Paper ballots, kept for verification, counted singly. Time and resource consuming.

New - Electronic, digital method, no audit trail, counted within seconds. Easily manipulated. Not trustworthy.


Proposed. Believe it or not, in today's age of lightning results, this is one area that will require an accurate audit trail. Paper ballots will be required, with signature. Ballots should be counted twice by two separate parties. Verification would be a third count. If it takes days, then so be it. It would be done right the first time.

FUCK MSM. They can wait.

[dreamnightwind]

134. Exactly, I have never understood the "takes too long" argument

Takes too long for what? This country isn't going anywhere, we have time to count all of the ballots by hand, and need to do so, with cameras recording the whole process.

[SmittynMo]

137. So why hasn't "The establishment" fixed this?

Hmmm. Possible/potential corruption again? Which leads us back to another reason to vote Bernie.

[dreamnightwind]

138. I assume both major parties benefit from it

Obama named Chuck Hagel as his Secretary of Defense. Are we really supposed to think he was the most qualified? I'm pretty sure his lack of qualifications led to him doing a poor job at Defense and to his eventual ouster.

From Hage's wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hagel

He also served as a Chairman and was CEO of American Information Systems Inc. (AIS), later known as Election Systems & Software, a computerized voting machine manufacturer jointly owned by McCarthy Group, LLC and the Omaha World-Herald company.[27][29] On March 15, 1995, Hagel resigned from the board of AIS as he intended to run for office.[30] Michael McCarthy, the parent company's founder, was Hagel's campaign treasurer.[31] Until at least 2003, he retained between $1 million and $5 million in stock in Election Systems & Software's parent company, the McCarthy Group.[32]

My belief is the establishment of both parties uses the proprietary unaccountable electronic voting systems as a defense against candidates who aren't "with the program", much the same way the Democratic Party uses super-delegates in their primary.

If voting changed anything, it would be illegal. Time to change that, if we have enough numbers and resolve to address this issue, the people's vote must be what determines who runs this nation.

[questionseverything]

144. hand counted ballots at the precinct while being live streamed would be transparent

[dreamnightwind]

147. Yes

[clarkkentvotes]

149. if that is what it takes - make it so

if that is what it takes - make it so