Brexit's legacy for England will be politics as sectarian as Northern Ireland's

[Soph0571]

Northern Ireland has had two electorates for decades. Parties battle in one or the other, leaving slim pickings for those who try to reach across the divide. As Geoffrey Evans, another BES author, put it this week: “British politics is no longer about the battle for the middle ground. It’s become like the Northern Ireland system.” And Evans adds a sobering further thought, that in Northern Ireland the winners are the parties that voters trust not to give in to the other side. “Could the Liberal Democrats be the Sinn Féin of all this,” he wonders.

Northern Ireland’s divides are rooted in centuries of religious divide. The Brexit divide in Britain is far more recent. But it is rooted in identities and anger, too. If Brexit does become the defining issue in mid-21st-century British politics, the hope of a country coming back together could be as fragile as the dream of Irish peace now is, and just as fraught.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/10/brexit-legacy-england-northern-ireland-sectarian-politics]

Interesting article. I think it pushes the bounds of credibility a bit but I put that down to if you are not from Northern Ireland how very very much division and living in silos is a very real thing. Think I unlikely that that culture borne in violence will be replicated in England, but it s an interesting hypothesis nonetheless.

[Celerity]

1. So utterly depressing that 2 of my 3 nations (the US and the UK) are taking the NI sectarian route

as their present trajectories of choice.

[Denzil_DC]

2. Gove in Parliament has recently taken to accusing the SNP of "sectarianism" for some reason.

Given that the Tories in Scotland have blatantly courted the hardline Unionist/Orange vote in recent elections, a number of their councillors and most vociferous opponents of the SNP and independence come from a sectarian background, and that Gove himself has been known to give a stirring rendition of "The Sash", it's another instance of accusing your adversary of what you're guilty of yourself.

[T_i_B]

3. There is a LOT of tribal sectarian nonsense in UK politics at present

The SNP are not innocent on this front. However, I might also suggest that the near religious cult of Brexit and the factional nonsense in Labour (not to mention the general opposition bickering at present) are bigger fish to fry.

[Denzil_DC]

5. If the SNP are "not innocent on this front",

I'm sure you won't have any problems linking to instances of it being sectarian.

I'm not talking about "sectarian" in any broader uses of the term. I'm talking literal "Ulsterisation" sectarianism in the terms Kettle and Sophie are using it, "We The People", "No Surrender" and "Fuck the Pope" and all.

If you're using it in a wider sense, I'll just point you toward the era when Labour's vote in Scotland was weighed, not counted, and when a dug wearing a red rosette could get voted in in certain seats.

[T_i_B]

4. This is what nationalist "divide and rule" politics creates

The result of politics that teaches people to be proud of stuff they have never done and to hate people they have never met. And I don't think we have even seen the worst effects of Britain's toxic, spiteful political culture yet.

Nationalism sells itself as a way to make a nation great, when in reality all it is doing is ripping our nation apart.

[Ghost Dog]

6. Well, if "Irish peace" is to be no more than a dream, again, Soph,

thanks to internal English Tory Party dickheadedness, and beyond, Um, Om, pues entonces, so neither shall of peace ever again even dream those responsible, all the way to the gates of their self-constructed hell.