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FakeNoose

(35,795 posts)
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 11:29 AM Jul 2024

Four decades in the making, a task force takes steps to rid Philadelphia of nuisance stop-and-go stores



Philadelphia Inquirer link: https://www.inquirer.com/business/pennsylvania-stop-and-go-task-force-regulation-20240724.html

Almost a century ago, Pennsylvania’s liquor code was created by a teetotaler governor distraught enough about the repeal of Prohibition that he decided to make drinking as difficult as possible for residents.

For the last four decades, Philadelphia residents have vigorously complained that the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board (PLCB) hasn’t made drinking more difficult at so-called stop-and-go stores throughout the city.

And for four hours over two days last week, the bipartisan Pennsylvania Stop-and-Go Legislative Task Force heard it all once again — residents’ grievances and store owners’ complaints of harassment — as they attempt to find a solution that will eradicate nuisance stop-and-gos in the city without unnecessarily burdening law-abiding businesses.

“I invite everyone on this panel to come and join me in my backyard, because the shenanigans go on all day long and you can have a bird’s-eye view sitting in my yard seeing people at 1 a.m., 2 a.m., 3 a.m., 4 a.m.,” said Stephanie Ridgeway, president of Lower North Philadelphia CDC. “This is impacting a community that is attempting to rejuvenate itself.”
- more at link -

Also from the same article:
What is a stop-and-go?
The task force, chaired by State Sen. Anthony Hardy Williams, a Philadelphia Democrat, is responsible for legally defining stop-and-gos and coming up with a suitable special license and effective enforcement to use only in Philadelphia.

The state liquor code prohibits private ownership of liquor stores but allows entrepreneurs to run restaurants and eating establishments that can sell alcohol to customers as they eat. In the late 1980s, entrepreneurs started purchasing old, unused liquor licenses that allowed them to sell food. According to the Pennsylvania State Police’s Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement (BLCE), some stop-and-gos run afoul of the liquor codes because they do not provide sufficient food and eating space, tables and chairs, or utensils, and may sell liquor to go, in violation of the law.

Instead they specialize in selling small quantities of hard alcohol and beer to a transient population, many with addiction issues. Buying single servings of alcoholic beverages is easy and cheap, and customers tend to linger outside the stores, neighbors complain, drinking and creating chaos throughout the day and night.
- more at link -

In western PA we have Sheets and GetGo that are mostly open 24 hours for gas, cigarettes and carry out food, etc. Many have beer and wine, but most customers drove their cars and on their way somewhere else. They aren't likely to loiter outside the store.

It is different in Philly, where some customers behave like they're at an all-night bar. Public drunkenness and other rowdy behavior outside the store (but on the store premises) isn't being controlled by the store employees and that's where the problems are.

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brewens

(15,359 posts)
1. No alcohol sales in Idaho from 2am to 6am and it doesn't hurt anything. I worked nights and occasionally
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 11:36 AM
Jul 2024

was waiting for 6am to buy beer for my after-work buzz. Every once in a while, I'd have a drunk also waiting to start early in the morning. I don't know how they do it. I always have trouble selecting a breakfast wine.

FakeNoose

(35,795 posts)
3. We actually have strict laws for alcohol sales in restaurants and bars
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 11:49 AM
Jul 2024

Pennsylvania is very strict on how alcohol is sold. We still have state-run liquor stores and I believe we're the last state in the country to continue this from the Repeal of Prohibition in 1933. The restaurants and bars all close at 1 a.m. (I believe) and many close earlier.

This issue of the stop-and-go convenience stores is that they found some wiggle room in the PA liquor control laws. That's how this problem arose in Philadelphia, these customers are homeless people who can't or don't want to go into bars. The police want it stopped and so do the neighborhood residents.

 

brewens

(15,359 posts)
7. We still have state run liquor stores in Idaho for some reason. You'd think they would be trying to privatize those but
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 02:07 PM
Jul 2024

I don't see any attempt yet.

One of the huge mistakes I think was to allow the higher alcohol beverages in grocery stores here. I worked for a beer distributor before they did, and we had nothing over 5% alcohol. All those higher alcohol beverages like Old English 800 were in the liquor stores.

We hated that. We both thought it would be big trouble and we'd make less money. Guys could get drunk cheaper with all those cheap ice beers. Before that you had to drink wine if you wanted more than 5% alcohol unless you went to one of the two liquor stores in town. Almost no one bought those malt beverages and ales there because liquor stores didn't keep them cold.

Now you have every fruit flavor or whatever 8% alcohol in cans. That can't be good. They did away with all the flavored cigarettes because those appealed to kids but not the alcohol.

 

Traurigkeit

(1,290 posts)
2. "The state liquor code prohibits private ownership of liquor stores ... " - no thought of changing the State Laws in PA?
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 11:45 AM
Jul 2024

unweird

(2,969 posts)
4. Privatization is not needed
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 11:58 AM
Jul 2024

Nor wanted. There are many functions of government that are best left with the state to operated. Liquor sales, transportation infrastructure and education immediately spring to mind.

FakeNoose

(35,795 posts)
5. Ahem, that's a hot issue in PA
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 12:05 PM
Jul 2024

I take it you don't live in Pennsylvania? We're the last state in the country that still has state-run liquor stores for spirits and wines. Beer is sold through beer distributors. (The short answer is that there's a very strong union of PA state store employees that is preventing this from happening.)

In the last 10 years or so grocery and convenience stores have been able to get single-serving beer and wine pouring licenses because they could prove to the state that they were also serving food to the public. As I explained in my OP it's become a huge problem in certain areas of Philadelphia where homeless people are abusing. It doesn't happen in other areas of the state (that I'm aware of), only in Philly.

Even if we did change our state laws and allow private ownership of liquor stores, it wouldn't solve this particular problem. Private liquor stores wouldn't be allowed to sell single-serves of wine and beer, because that requires a restaurant/bar pouring license.

 

Traurigkeit

(1,290 posts)
6. What a vile little man this was "he decided to make drinking as difficult as possible for residents."
Thu Jul 25, 2024, 01:32 PM
Jul 2024
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