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question everything

(49,003 posts)
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 09:22 PM Nov 2020

Minneapolis momentum is being crushed by the crime wave - By Kate Mortenson

Elaine, a front-line health care worker in Minneapolis, was putting groceries in the trunk of her car recently, in a crowded parking lot at the Uptown Kowalski’s Market, giving her high-alert system a break, as most of us do when some benign activity consumes our attention. It was 5:15 p.m. A moment later, a car blaring loud music pulled up behind hers, trapping her at her own car’s trunk. Someone got out of the car and punched Elaine to the ground. An accomplice wrested her handbag from her arm. In the next instant, the car and assailants were gone. It was again a regular evening, just after dark, in a busy parking lot in Uptown.

The robbery had happened so fast that no one had even noticed. Elaine, my colleague’s mom, a 60-plus year-old woman, beaten and robbed, her eye already swelling shut, had to pull herself up from the ground and stumble into the store for help. The store security chief, Scott Nelson, experienced with this kind of crime, immediately began reviewing film from monitoring cameras at nearby businesses.

Committed to pursuing justice for Elaine, Nelson laments that we “need police service and we need more of it. South Minneapolis is worse than I’ve ever seen it.” He describes the surge of 20-plus attacks a day that are now striking people just going about their daily business, people like Elaine. Usually in a stolen car, perpetrators Nelson describes as “young teens, 12-to-14 years old” cruise from lot to lot in neighborhood business districts, waiting for a victim, “like a deer hunter sits in a tree.” When they are apprehended, Nelson says consequences are negligible. “I arrest the same people over and over. Nothing happens to them.”

My heart hurts to see so much media coverage about our city’s failure to protect its citizens. It hurts even more when you know someone who has been sacrificed by this crisis of leadership. Recently we heard the chief of police appealing that “we are bleeding” in unprotected neighborhoods (“City Council members, police chief clash over plans for outside help,” Nov. 13). This media coverage isn’t just local; Minneapolis is making national news, again and again, over the dangerous environment our politicians have amplified. On CBS’ “60 Minutes” and in the Washington Post, Minneapolis’ embarrassing, confused state about whom to serve, whether to protect and how to respond, has been revealed, increasing unchecked violence. As a citizen, I feel like a pawn in someone else’s power struggle.

In recent years many regional leaders and groups have invested in rebranding our region for a more vibrant future. We planned to use our built and natural environment to welcome a new generation of visitors, workers and residents. How I would love to have those days of blossoming possibility back.

Now our city’s future hangs in the balance. As we teeter between proclamations and inaction, women are attacked while running daily errands. Carjackings are perpetrated in broad daylight; my daughter witnessed one the other day as she walked her dog. A North Side community group is suing the city for holding the concept of safety hostage to the concept of reform. It is not viable to sacrifice one to the other. Surely we can achieve both?

https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-momentum-is-being-crushed-by-the-crime-wave/573198901/

Kate Mortenson, former president and CEO of the 2019 Final Four Minneapolis Local Organizing Committee, is founder and CEO at iPondr, a digital media company.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Minneapolis momentum is being crushed by the crime wave - By Kate Mortenson (Original Post) question everything Nov 2020 OP
I was looking at moving to Minneapolis or Portland. Put a check next to Portland. LizBeth Nov 2020 #1
This is such a garbage article. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #2
I think this is happening in other places too. LisaM Nov 2020 #3
It isn't their 'training'... OldBaldy1701E Nov 2020 #7
No, I don't want want more of "them". LisaM Nov 2020 #9
Absolutely not OldBaldy1701E Nov 2020 #21
No, you don't digress. I get it. LisaM Nov 2020 #22
Yes OldBaldy1701E Dec 2020 #23
And training would improve the profiling issue. LisaM Dec 2020 #24
Amen to that! (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Dec 2020 #26
My take on this is that there's a bunch of factors playing into it sboatcar Nov 2020 #4
I'm with you BainsBane Nov 2020 #6
Many police departments have bargaining units that are affiliated with the AFL-CIO. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #8
I agree, but if you look at the minneapolis police union sboatcar Nov 2020 #10
Sure, Bob Kroll is an asshole. But he's an asshole running a white supremacist institution that has WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #12
So do you have an ideas for how it can be fixed? sboatcar Nov 2020 #13
As a police abolitionist, I'm a fan of tearing it all down. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #14
I think we need some level of law enforcement sboatcar Nov 2020 #15
A protection model thrives on an us/them mindset that results in uneven policing. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #16
Not this one BainsBane Nov 2020 #18
I know. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2020 #19
The police are punishing us BainsBane Nov 2020 #5
Exactly! sboatcar Nov 2020 #11
Frey needs to go BainsBane Nov 2020 #17
I agree, I never liked him much, and he hasn't shown any decent leadership skills sboatcar Nov 2020 #20
I am a 911 dispatcher. I have worked with police for 20 years. the_sly_pig Dec 2020 #25

LisaM

(28,729 posts)
3. I think this is happening in other places too.
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 09:51 PM
Nov 2020

Before the pandemic, downtown Seattle (where I live) felt dangerous. Stores were closing because of shoplifting and street people being violent. A woman was stabbed to death last week at her apartment.

I was in Minneapolis last Christmas and while it felt safer to me than Seattle, there were reports then of people being randomly attacked on the light rail. They have faced problems with store closures too. Ten years ago, both Seattle and Minneapolis were fun places to shop, now they basically close up after dark except by the stadiums (and of course, not this year).

This is why the notion of defunding the police is so flipping stupid. Do both cities have problems with their police departments? Yes. But they need to spend more on training and put more cops on the street (and better cops).

OldBaldy1701E

(6,529 posts)
7. It isn't their 'training'...
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 08:26 AM
Nov 2020

that is lacking. It is their humanity. When you have an agency that has been given carte blanche to lie without consequence, what else would you expect? When you staff that agency with trained killers, what else would you expect? When you do not oversee these same trained killers in any way, what else would you expect? And, you want more of them out there?

LisaM

(28,729 posts)
9. No, I don't want want more of "them".
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 11:27 AM
Nov 2020

Among other things, they are not hiring good people. But they are being put on the streets with weeks, vs. years, of training.

And yes, I would like to be able to walk around and shop and do things at night (including waiting for my bus) without being assaulted, which I have been, by the way. I hear footsteps behind me everywhere now. Do you think woman should live under a virtual curfew?

The only cops I see in downtown Seattle are either helping people who have OD'd or occasionally riding by on bikes. Yes, I think that a well-paid and trained police force visible on the street would be an asset, and no, I am absolutely not defending the behavior we have seen from the monsters on the force.

OldBaldy1701E

(6,529 posts)
21. Absolutely not
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 02:18 PM
Nov 2020

No, I do not think women should be under any curfew. I am sorry that you were assaulted. That should never have happened. However, I am reminded of the story of when my father showed up to our house with a used Honda XR-75 motorcycle. My mother was an emergency room nurse for her entire career. She all but pitched a fit. I finally had to say to her, "You realize that you are basing your reaction to the fact that, as a nurse, you see all the idiots who thought they could ride a bike, not the ones who actually can." My point is that, as you yourself pointed out, that you may be averse to any ideas other than more muscle on the street due to what happened. I am very leery of that thought process, and am even more leery of the idea that such thought processes could be influencing the final decisions as to whether or not we have more LEO out there. I think it is time we moved forward in our concepts of 'law' and 'law enforcement' as the concept we are now using is outdated and has been corrupted almost beyond repair. I feel that more 'community safety agents' who all have degrees with either a major or a minor in psychology, psychiatry, or sociology, as well as medical and legal knowledge, can then assess what is going on and decide if a cadre of troops is necessary. Also, police should have a similar level of education before they are ever allowed to deal with the public. I have also felt that any military personnel who want to go into civilian law enforcement should undergo at least five years of therapy before they are allowed to deal with the public. But, I digress.

LisaM

(28,729 posts)
22. No, you don't digress. I get it.
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 06:00 PM
Nov 2020

I don't like the ex-military aspect of who we are hiring for the police. We both agree on that - and it's a huge part of the issue. I think two years of training at a minimum should be required; youi're upping it to five in some cases. These things don't happen with defunding.

Wanting a more visible police force doesn't mean I want more "muscle". Yes, I'd like a visible presence downtown, but I don't mean a bunch of doinks outfitted with riot gear, ready to tear gas everyone they see. But I'd like to be able to walk around downtown without feeling as if I'm going to be hit over the head like I was once. It sucks. And the people being attacked in Minneapolis are women, too.

OldBaldy1701E

(6,529 posts)
23. Yes
Thu Dec 3, 2020, 07:51 AM
Dec 2020

You wish to be safe? So do most of the non-whites in this nation. They would like to be able to do what you are suggesting as well. They cannot, because of profiling done by law enforcement, which they do to maintain control of those non-white races per their white masters. (And to pad their own profits, but that is another story). Sad, but true. But, defunding the police does not mean our society will just leave the entire concept alone. It will be replaced with something more equitable and much less corruptible. (I won't say non-corruptible, because we are talking about humans here and they will usually find a way to corrupt or subvert anything.) Now, I may be putting words in your mouth, and I apologise if I am, but your position sure sounds like you want more 'muscle'. That would be the only way to be sure you are not attacked. But, when our police forces spent the last several decades convincing the general public that it cannot do anything about any of this, that only our saviors in blue can, you end up where we are. The heroes in blue cannot be everywhere, nor can they solve everything. In fact, they have not been able to even solve the issue of how polarized our society has become over them. When my car has a big enough issue, it is time for a new one. Regardless of how great I think it used to be.

LisaM

(28,729 posts)
24. And training would improve the profiling issue.
Thu Dec 3, 2020, 11:38 AM
Dec 2020

I just don't like the messaging, plus cities are becoming increasingly unsafe. Seattle used to have a thriving downtown. Now it's scary, and this was pre-pandemic. The tech workers don't care. They live in their business bubbles. But for those of us who want to go out and about in the world, things have changed.

But I think all municipal services need more money. Social workers, teachers, libraries, parks, the list goes on. Quit giving tax breaks to big tech and to developers and re-invest in our safety net.

sboatcar

(569 posts)
4. My take on this is that there's a bunch of factors playing into it
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 10:43 PM
Nov 2020

The first being covid. Its put a lot of people out of work, closed bars, and sent kids home from school. There's lots of people lacking ways to blow off steam.
The second is MPD. I'm convinced that they're intentionally punishing the city by slowing down responses or not responding at all to a lot of the calls. This isn't from the MPD leadership, this comes directly from the police union.

My solution....dissolve the police union and get rid of its leadership and if they want a union they can join AFL/CIO. They'll get the same worker protections, but without all of the blatant racism and childish tactics that are actually harming people.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,055 posts)
8. Many police departments have bargaining units that are affiliated with the AFL-CIO.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 10:20 AM
Nov 2020

Affiliation has little to do with police brutality. And there is plenty of racism inside affiliated unions.

sboatcar

(569 posts)
10. I agree, but if you look at the minneapolis police union
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:02 AM
Nov 2020

Its run by a sociopath with ties to white supremacists. He wins re election every time by intimidation, and he keeps a very tight leash on the MPD. Even the chief can't do much about it.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,055 posts)
12. Sure, Bob Kroll is an asshole. But he's an asshole running a white supremacist institution that has
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:06 AM
Nov 2020

terrorized parts of the city for more than 100 years. Dissolving the union wouldn't solve that, and it would set a terrible precedent for other public unions. The MPD is a rogue org, but that's because it's a police department, not because of Kroll.

sboatcar

(569 posts)
13. So do you have an ideas for how it can be fixed?
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:09 AM
Nov 2020

Because other than tearing it all down and rebuilding from scratch I don't see any way to do it.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,055 posts)
14. As a police abolitionist, I'm a fan of tearing it all down.
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:19 AM
Nov 2020

I don't believe it can be fixed or reformed. The effort of reform necessary would be better applied to other community-building efforts.

sboatcar

(569 posts)
15. I think we need some level of law enforcement
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:31 AM
Nov 2020

but it needs to be done in a way that's primarily geared towards protecting the public, as opposed to reacting to crimes already happening.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,055 posts)
16. A protection model thrives on an us/them mindset that results in uneven policing.
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:48 AM
Nov 2020

Who gets protection from whom?

BainsBane

(54,854 posts)
18. Not this one
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 12:02 PM
Nov 2020

The police union here is a reactionary element. When the mayor cancelled gestapo like training, the head of the police union, Bob Kroll, paid for it himself. He considered the murder of Floyd justified. He never saw a cop murder he didn't love. They are a serious, serious problem, which is why the city council is considering disbanding the force altogether.

We have the worst police force in the entire nation. It cannot stand. And the union insists on keeping it rotten and murderous.

BainsBane

(54,854 posts)
5. The police are punishing us
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 12:33 AM
Nov 2020

For the 3rd precinct by failing to respond to calls. And the person who burned it was a white, RW agitator from outside the area. Not that the police care. They have always hated the people they are supposed to serve. Plus they need to maintain South Minneapolis reputation for having the worst fucking police on the planet.

sboatcar

(569 posts)
11. Exactly!
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 09:06 AM
Nov 2020

Good luck getting the police to show up if you live in the 3rd precinct these days. Its absolutely intentional that they're letting this uptick in crime go unchecked. Its kind of working too. I belong to several south minneapolis facebook groups, and they're blaming all of this on the mayor and city council (though they're not blameless either).
Honestly, MPD needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt from scratch.

BainsBane

(54,854 posts)
17. Frey needs to go
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 11:59 AM
Nov 2020

He's useless. But the police are definitely to blame for the lack of responsiveness to resident calls.

There was an attack similar to the one described in the article at Seward Coop. I think it was a car jacking actually.

the_sly_pig

(748 posts)
25. I am a 911 dispatcher. I have worked with police for 20 years.
Thu Dec 3, 2020, 11:40 PM
Dec 2020

Please send an officer to my address. There is a pigeon in my garage that won't leave.

Please send an officer to my address. My 27yo son has overdosed and is not breathing.

Please send an officer to my address. We live in a 2nd floor apartment and there is a frozen squirrel on a tree branch that is freaking my daughter out. Please remove it.

Please send an officer to my address. I found my 13yo daughter hanging from a belt in her closet.

Please send an officer to my address. A squirrel crawled down our chimney and is stuck in our hearth.

Please send an officer to my apartment. My X shot my neighbor in the head, shot me in the chest, and tried to shoot my 3 kids.

Please send an officer to this intersection. There is a couch pillow in the road.

Please send an officer to my address. I just woke up from being drugged and I think I've been sexually assaulted.

Please send an officer to my address. My neighbor is blowing leaves into my yard.

Please send an officer to this intersection. There has been a car accident and one person is trapped and the car is smoking.

Please send an officer to my address. I see a person I've never seen in my neighborhood walking down the street.

Please send an officer to this address. I accidentally ran over my mother and she's stuck under the car.

Please send an officer to my address. My 13yo son won't get out of bed and go to school.

Please send an officer to my address. My 19yo autistic, bi-polar son is out of control and is breaking things in the house.

Please send an officer to this address. My X won't let me retrieve my belongings.

Please send an officer to my address. My brother just stabbed me.

Please send an officer to this Park. There are kids playing basketball and it's after 8pm.

Each and every one of these statements is a real experience. I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind about anything. But to ignore the reality of what it means to police a jurisdiction is a mistake. Though there are some jurisdictions that have enough money to try and prevent crime, the vast majority of police time is spent managing crime. Most law enforcement agencies are understaffed just as most 911 dispatch centers are understaffed. If you think that hearing and witnessing humanities constant and never-ending misdeeds, 24x7x365, doesn't have an effect, you are wrong.

Thinking about throwing out the "they know what they signed up for", or the "I'm a taxpayer" canard? Super. Basic.

Covid19 has also had an extreme effect on daily law enforcement activity.

I'm not writing to make excuses for any felony committed by a Peace Officer. I'm writing to say there is nuance. There is more to it than just "us versus them". I'm constantly mystified by the thought that car-jackings, and assaults, and domestics, and robberies, and burglaries, and medicals etc. etc. etc. don't happen each day, every day in every single community.

I have no idea how to enact real change in law enforcement. I believe that using the police as a filter for every single societal problem is a mistake. I believe that 40 years of bull**** trickle down economics that has caused extreme disparities in advancement and opportunities can be blamed for societal blight. And as we have seen, the election of the Candycorn Skidmark has revealed a level of racism I had honestly thought impossible.

And yet, here in Minnesota, with everything that has gone on in the last four years, we still elect f***ing republicans. Yep, there are problems with policing. But I'm also saying that as a society we need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

ps. 1) I am not condoning police misconduct. 2) I am not denying white privilege. 3) I have no idea what it's like to be a person of color.

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