Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Coloradoans--urge you to study this distribution of Military "Toys" in CO, as published by NYT (Original Post) hlthe2b Aug 2014 OP
Resident of Weld County, here. madamesilverspurs Aug 2014 #1
I'd like to think that Denver Post and maybe the Coloradoan and other regional papers miight hlthe2b Aug 2014 #2
The Coloradoan is the Ft. Collins newspaper, madamesilverspurs Aug 2014 #3
That is appalling... That decision (not to release name) should have been appealed hlthe2b Aug 2014 #4
With good reason, madamesilverspurs Aug 2014 #5
I visited with the Democrats at a booth at New West Fest in Fort Collins Sunday... hlthe2b Aug 2014 #6
This: CrispyQ Aug 2014 #7
The San Juan County, NM almost makes sense. politicat Aug 2014 #9
Thanks for the scary info locks Aug 2014 #8
coloradoan took it on today fizzgig Aug 2014 #10
thanks, Fizzgig... I can paste a bit hlthe2b Aug 2014 #11
Military Surplus on Front Range: Note the distinct difference between Larimer & Weld Counties hlthe2b Aug 2014 #12
thanks for pasting over the info fizzgig Aug 2014 #13

madamesilverspurs

(16,051 posts)
1. Resident of Weld County, here.
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 03:18 PM
Aug 2014

First saw one of those vehicles a couple of years ago, driving down the street next to Safeway. I honestly had no idea that we had "need" of such a thing; but then, we also played host to a very nasty raid at our meatpacking plant, carried out, in part, by the sheriff and DA who are not known for their warm and fuzzy feelings toward anyone with a Hispanic surname. That sheriff and DA, by the way, are presently standing for higher office (John Cooke for state senate, Ken Buck for Congress). You are correct that, in Weld County, IOKIYAR holds sway. And Dudley Brown would have located his RMGO in Colorado Springs had he not found warm welcome for his NRAism in Weld County.

For as much as I despise the snide racism that very much pervades in Weld, it was a bit surprising to note that, according to that NYT map, San Juan County in NW New Mexico got six MRVs plus two other armored vehicles; not a huge population center by any calculation, kind of curious as to the reasons for that particular allocation.

hlthe2b

(106,385 posts)
2. I'd like to think that Denver Post and maybe the Coloradoan and other regional papers miight
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 03:31 PM
Aug 2014

do a story based on these NYT findings and we might shame some of these locales... Apparently John Olver's mocking reporting was sufficient to get Saginaw MI to turn their armored vehicle back...

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2014/08/saginaw_county_sheriff_getting.html

madamesilverspurs

(16,051 posts)
3. The Coloradoan is the Ft. Collins newspaper,
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 04:10 PM
Aug 2014

and is often more forthcoming with important information than the Greeley Tribune which is fond of putting nearly everything behind a paywall. The Trib has pretty much become the de facto PR organ of the drilling industry, as their coverage of local stories reflects.

That said, they manage to surprise now and then, as with this week's editorial:

Police departments should ID cops involved in shootings, but it’s not likely to happen here

he three fatal shootings this year involving Greeley police officers, and the recent shooting of a black teenager in Ferguson, Mo., raise again an issue that has been debated before in our community: Should officers who are involved in shootings be identified?

Police say no, because doing so would put the officers at risk of retaliation. In Greeley and Weld, they have a blanket policy against it.

We say accountability and transparency are equally important, and protecting the officer’s identity raises even more suspicion against all police officers.

In 1998, The Tribune filed a lawsuit against the then Greeley police chief, Weld County sheriff and Weld District attorney. There had been four fatal police shootings in two years, and in all cases, law enforcement officials refused to disclose the names of the officers involved in the shootings.

In all four cases, the officers were absolved of any wrongdoing. We didn’t dispute those conclusions, but we argued in court that the names of the officers should be released to the public.

In the three officer-involved shootings this year — and in multiple others since 1998 — we’ve asked for the names of the officers every single time. And in every case we’ve been denied for pretty much the same reason that District Court Judge Jonathan Hays ruled against The Tribune 16 years ago.

Releasing the names of officers involved in the shootings would “endanger the safety of the officers and their families” and would violate their rights to privacy, Hays wrote in his ruling. He said releasing the officers’ names also would create “a drain on public resources diverted to protect the officers and their families.”

Greeley and Weld County law enforcement officials are relatively unusual in Colorado. Most police jurisdictions — including the nearby Fort Collins Police Department — routinely release the names of officers who shoot suspects. But Greeley and Weld County have a long history, going back far longer than the lawsuit we filed in 1998, of not releasing officers names.

Greeley Police Chief Jerry Garner, who has worked in multiple jurisdictions and wasn’t in Greeley when we filed the lawsuit, has continued the tradition. He believes retaliation against his officers or their families is possible when they are involved in shootings.

In some cases, that may be obvious. But in many other cases over the years, we’ve questioned if there really is a serious threat against an officer.

Garner and others admit threats against officers are rarely carried out. But he cites a recent example of a serious threat against a Greeley officer that came from a gang member who was in a state prison. And in the shooting last week of the 21-year-old Army vet, Garner told us of an incident later the same night of the shooting. Police and paramedics were called out on a report of a juvenile who had passed out. A group of juveniles and young men admitted they were Greeley gang members and decided to drink alcohol to honor the man who had been shot earlier in the day. And they told officers who responded that they wanted retribution against the officer who shot their friend.

It’s never clear if those threats are real or harmless, but Garner believes he has to take them seriously.

When the Greeley judge issued his ruling in ’98, even the then-Director of the Colorado Department of Public Safety Pat Ahlstrom acknowledged a blanket policy against releasing officers’ names was unusual in Colorado and the ruling wouldn’t be seen as precedent-setting.

“I think most police departments will continue with their policies of normally releasing this information,” Ahlstrom said.

He admitted there are “dangerous people out there who do plan retaliation” but he added that most police officers in Colorado understand it’s part of the job, and that their names will be released if they are involved in fatal shootings.

“A public officer normally has to be accountable, and that’s standing up and identifying yourself,” he said.

In Missouri, the police department’s initial refusal to release the officer’s name was a reason for many of the protests that have received national media attention. The community wants to know: Has the officer shot anyone before? Have there been previous accusations of excessive force?

Garner says the three shootings in Greeley were done by different officers.

For the record, we would agree that officers should be identified. But there is no state law in Colorado that requires it, and at least in Weld District Court, the issue has been decided.

Randy Bangert is editor of The Tribune. He can be reached at (970) 392-4435 or rbangert@greeleytribune.com.

hlthe2b

(106,385 posts)
4. That is appalling... That decision (not to release name) should have been appealed
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 04:19 PM
Aug 2014

to state supreme court, imo.... Regardless, there should be a state accountability law...

Glad to see a Greeley newspaper discussing this though.

madamesilverspurs

(16,051 posts)
5. With good reason,
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 04:40 PM
Aug 2014

many of us here have been paying very close attention to Ferguson. In a very real sense, we could be next, sooner or later.

Discussions of racism are met with predictable eye-rolling and dismissed as "librul" hyperbole. But reality is what it is. You may have noticed my occasional posts about our candidates, maybe a bit too frequent for some, but their opponents should frighten the crap out of people. I have asserted, and will continue to do so, that both Buck (DA) and Cooke (sheriff) deem a Hispanic surname to be sufficient 'probable cause'; it's part of the public record. Republicans constitute roughly a bit more than a third of the voting population, followed by unaffiliated and Democrats; but republicans have controlled the county commission for twenty years, and the Greeley city council is starting to follow that trend.

Buck wants the CD-4 seat being vacated by Cory Gardner.
Our guy in that race is Vic Meyers www.vicmeyers.com

Cooke wants the state senate seat being vacated by Scott "Leviticus" Renfroe.
Our guy is Joe Perez www.joeforsd13.com

hlthe2b

(106,385 posts)
6. I visited with the Democrats at a booth at New West Fest in Fort Collins Sunday...
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 04:47 PM
Aug 2014

While I'd assumed Dems had a strong presence in FC city government, I had no idea there were none among the county commissioners (there is hope to get one on in November).

People truly need to pay attention to local races. Success in even the smallest office can propel them to county-wide, district and even state-wide office. The teabaggers have learned... No elected position is too small to get a foodhold..

I wish you the best of luck with Meyers and Perez... It is depressing to see otherwise (seemingly) rational people fall for this BS teabagger/libertarian/RW line year after year--to all of our detriment.

CrispyQ

(38,287 posts)
7. This:
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 05:00 PM
Aug 2014

People truly need to pay attention to local races. Success in even the smallest office can propel them to county-wide, district and even state-wide office. The teabaggers have learned... No elected position is too small to get a foodhold..

politicat

(9,810 posts)
9. The San Juan County, NM almost makes sense.
Fri Aug 22, 2014, 09:46 PM
Aug 2014

That's the Four corners area, and a lot of the area just isn't easily accessible. It's not so much the armor as the go anywhere aspect. (The armor is just a free "gift" with purchase.) those things have massive engines, high torque and clearance and their undercarriages are hardened, so getting through a gully won't rip out an axle. (Also, they float and have snorkel kits. Who knew?)

I spent my teens on the Arizona side of the region, and there were times you just couldn't get there from here. (Start with the crap funding BIA puts into Rez roads, the even less Arizona invests into anything that doesn't have federal money, then add wind, flash floods, wild fire...) My sophomore year, Shiprock had only 1 road in for about 7 months when a bridge got squished. Parts NE of there had to go up through Utah to get back to Tuba City. In the last few years, fire in the area had been bad, and I could see having a heavy vehicle for that.

And there's the free aspect, because it is a free vehicle. LE and S&R would take just about anything they could get cheap and splash paint on, back then. I can't imagine that's changed much -- on the Arizona side, there are too many sovereign citizens in the area still dealing with their fee-fees because the big bad USA wouldn't let their great-grandparents have a theocracy and thus either refusing to pay taxes or keeping the counties starved.

But the fuel and maintenance cost have to be worth more than free hardware. I'm pretty sure even a jacked, lifted, protected Suburban with a snorkel kit is cheaper to run and maintain than an MEV, not to mention easier to drive with less training and more versatile.

The Weld County and Yuma County ones... Those are my WTF, SRSLY? Is Wyoming going to invade? Will the cattle riot? Don't tell me Weld is scared of us in the People's Republic... Or that the Erie/Longmont tax base is going to get sick of no services and jump ship.

And why does Weld need two? Are they jousting? (Which would be entertaining in a demolition derby sort of way...) I'd really like to know what the rationale was on those.

locks

(2,012 posts)
8. Thanks for the scary info
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 10:28 PM
Aug 2014

I've lived in CO for a long time, can't remember any uprisings, riots, crime waves or school shootings in Phillips County and pretty sure they've never had a minority person, but their swat team is ready with seven assault rifles, one for every 624 people just in case they ever revolt or try to secede.

Boulder only got 44 assault rifles so if they want to keep up with Phillips County they need to ask for at least 516 or more. Probably more, you know how those University of Colorado students party. And did you notice that our crime rate is sky high since we legalized pot and how many minorities we have moving in? We may also need a couple of those military humvees and black helicopters soon.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
10. coloradoan took it on today
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 12:53 PM
Aug 2014
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/2014/08/23/gear-built-war-rests-greeley-lawmen/14479391/

i can't copy and paste any of it since i'm pay-walled out on my laptop and have no idea how to do it on my phone.

i want to know why local police need giant ass guns for ceremonial purposes.

hlthe2b

(106,385 posts)
11. thanks, Fizzgig... I can paste a bit
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 03:34 PM
Aug 2014
Gear built for war rests with Greeley lawmen
Matte-black, 10 feet tall and encased in armor so thick knocks don't echo in its hollow interior, the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle sits so heavy that steel plates are needed to keep the asphalt from cracking under its tires.Designed for war, the machine now bears the dull-gold inscription of "Police Rescue and Greeley Police Department SWAT."

"We don't use it to go knock on doors or anything," Greeley PD spokesman Sgt. J.P. Tymkowych said, walking toward its steel-plated parking space at the police station.

Since the department acquired the vehicle from the Department of Defense through its 1033 military surplus program in November, Tymkowych knows of one time it has been deployed: to serve a warrant at a house with "lots of intelligence that people had some pretty serious weapons inside."

Otherwise, it sits, sometimes used in training, sometimes receiving routine maintenance. But mostly, it sits in the parking lot of a police department tasked with protecting a city just shy of 100,000 residents with a crime rate below the national average.

hlthe2b

(106,385 posts)
12. Military Surplus on Front Range: Note the distinct difference between Larimer & Weld Counties
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 03:41 PM
Aug 2014
FYI: Larimer, includes CSU, Fort Collins & Loveland
Weld includes the much smaller University of Northern Colorado, Greeley and lots of rural area (fracking the hell out of anywhere possible).

The difference is a clear indication of the attitudes/politics IMHO.


Military surplus on the Front Range (from the article linked above)

LARIMER COUNTY

Crime rate: 550 crimes per 100,000 people

Notable gear

Fort Collins Police Services

• Five M14 rifles; all used for ceremonial purpose only

Total cost to military: $690

Larimer County Sheriff's Office

• 20 M14 rifles, all ceremonial

• Four utility trucks, used for search and rescue operations

• Explosive disposal robot, used by SWAT as a "camera on wheels"

• Eight image intensifiers or night-vision equipment, none in use

Total cost to military: $243,000

Loveland Police Department

• 15 M14 rifles

• 15 M16A1 rifles

Total cost to military: $9,500

WELD COUNTY

Crime rate: 521 crimes per 100,000 people

Windsor Police Department

• Six M14 rifles

• Two .38 caliber revolvers

Total cost to military: $1,000

Weld County Sheriff's Office

• MRAP

• 71 cold-weather undershirts

• 15 M14 rifles

• 177 reflex sights

Total cost to military: $836,000

Greeley Police Department

• 72 M16 rifles

• 10 M14 rifles, used for ceremonial purposes

• MRAP

• 22 suppressors for small-arms weapons

• 104 weapon sights

• Explosives removal robot

• 166 pieces of cold weather clothing

Total cost to military: $1.7 million

Note: Notable equipment may not include all equipment received; status or use of equipment from department sources. Source: 1033 program records; crime stats from Colorado Department of Public Safety.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
13. thanks for pasting over the info
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 08:29 PM
Aug 2014

weld county has to deal with all those scary brown people somehow

Latest Discussions»Region Forums»Colorado»Coloradoans--urge you to ...