Move Water By Pipeline From The Atchafalaya River West To Arizona

[asiliveandbreathe]

In this proposal, no water would be taken from the main channel of the Mississippi. As of Dec. 19, 1.43 million gals/sec of Atchafalaya River water was simply going into the Gulf of Mexico without producing electricity or supporting commercial shipping. Taking just 100,000 gals/sec (7%) of this water would fill Lakes Powell and Mead to 50% capacity in one year and 9 months. The project would save on construction costs by using an existing facility – the Old River Control Complex just south of Vidalia, Louisiana, where the Army Corps of Engineers diverts 30% of the downflow of the Mississippi to prevent flooding in New Orleans.


This undertaking would build a 1,400 mile series of pipelines, open channels, tunnels and pumping stations (similar to the California, Los Angeles, Colorado River Aqueducts and the Central Arizona Project). It could be built in a year, along interstate highway rights-of-way, using huge earth-moving machines like those employed in Holland for their canal systems.


There is historical precedent for building systems like this project with deliberate, urgent, speed. In less than a year between 1942 and 1943, the RFC financed and built two pipelines of similar length, 1,200 and 1,400 miles, to carry crude oil from Texas oil fields to the East Coast. These pipelines rescued the entire East Coast industrial oil refining system and won World War II for the Allies.

All U.S. senators and representatives, regardless of party, should get behind HR 3339 and vote for the National Infrastructure Bank. Map at link..


https://www.desertsun.com/story/opinion/contributors/valley-voice/2022/12/25/move-water-by-pipeline-from-the-atchafalaya-river-in-louisiana-to-west/69745899007/

[Blues Heron]

1. Interesting idea

What would it cost per gallon?

[asiliveandbreathe]

4. What is the cost of not doing SOMETHING - we are in dire straights in the

west..waiting for a desalination plant to be built, along with ALL the pipeline from the Sea of Cortez, which seems to be all the buzz, this could be an interim solution ..

Reading the article gives me hope that someone is at least trying...for sure, politics and money will play into any solutions..2 for me, 1 for you..if you know what I mean..lining pockets seems to be always in the equation..

From article..

The National Infrastructure Bank (NIB) set out in House Resolution 3339 would provide $5 trillion in low-cost loans for a broad range of public infrastructure projects – including massive water systems – without the need for increasing taxes or any deficit budget spending. NIB is prepared to invest up to $400 billion to bring new water to the Colorado River and the Southwest. One possibility would be to divert water from the Atchafalaya River in Louisiana through Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and up to the Glen Canyon Dam. Will Texass and Louisiana cooperate...

[mahatmakanejeeves]

2. That was then.

This is now.

It could be built in a year, along interstate highway rights-of-way, using huge earth-moving machines like those employed in Holland for their canal systems.


There is historical precedent for building systems like this project with deliberate, urgent, speed. In less than a year between 1942 and 1943, the RFC financed and built two pipelines of similar length, 1,200 and 1,400 miles, to carry crude oil from Texas oil fields to the East Coast.

[asiliveandbreathe]

6. Seems the author of article has thought through some of the costs..

From article..

The National Infrastructure Bank (NIB) set out in House Resolution 3339 would provide $5 trillion in low-cost loans for a broad range of public infrastructure projects – including massive water systems – without the need for increasing taxes or any deficit budget spending. NIB is prepared to invest up to $400 billion to bring new water to the Colorado River and the Southwest. One possibility would be to divert water from the Atchafalaya River in Louisiana through Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and up to the Glen Canyon Dam. Will Texass and Louisiana cooperate..

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. What I'm getting at is, back in the middle of WWII, no one wasted time with

environmental impact studies. We do that now. They take time. Lots of time. You're not going to get a 1,400 mile canal without one.

No self-respecting government regulatory agency will even decide on which sheet cake to buy at Costco for a retirement party without forming a committee to look into it.

[asiliveandbreathe]

18. Well, you make a good point..been there, done that..

which sheet cake to buy at Costco for a retirement party without forming a committee to look into it.

I am sure, if this is being debated, self-respecting government regulatory agency, WILL sit at the table..can we also have the oversight committee involved..looking at the map at link, will need environment, and state govts approval..(TX, )..

Involve EPA, D of Transportation, Finance, Congress HR3339, state Agencies..huge task, but will be worth it!!

[Phoenix61]

3. No, just no. It's a bandaid fix. It will start at 7% and

just keep going. Since there won’t be a lack of water there won’t be any reason to limit growth.

[asiliveandbreathe]

5. AZ and other states cannot afford to let the Dams go dry..ALL proposals on deck ..

Can we wait for building the desalination plant..I hear 10 years..puff AZ..so without a solution what shall we do??..Dunno..

[Eyeball_Kid]

8. Politicians from the southwest aren't known for their

long-term policy plans. Desalination plants should have been built 40 years ago. But, oh.. it's more important to cut taxes on the wealthy, yeah?

[asiliveandbreathe]

14. We have a new sheriff in town, (Phoenix), who is a life long resident..loves her state..surely

she will attack this problem along with others..at the Fed level as well..the cost of doing nothing is too high for all of us..Gov-elect Katie Hobbs's plate is full for sure..

I am a look FORWARD kind of person..we can't get any more stuck on doing NOTHING..because of NOTHING being done in the past..if you live in AZ you know how bad it is..

[Phoenix61]

25. This is the result of unchecked development.

Stop building in environments that cannot sustain human development. As the climate heats it’s only going to get worse.

[Eyeball_Kid]

7. A few decades ago, Arizona petitioned Illinois and Chicago to siphon off

Lake Michigan water and send it via pipeline to Arizona. The midwest's answer? Eh.. no.

[asiliveandbreathe]

10. A few decades ago..hummm..the map at the article seems too good to be true..

for sure..BUT, viable, when considering ALL other aspects of the idea..I have always been one to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks..the discussion and debate needs high priority..for all of the West..I have read about the B$ desalination plant from the Sea of Cortez..Ducey proposal, or raise the dam..proposal..time is of the essence..

[mopinko]

20. mostly cuz it's forbidden by treaty w canada tho.

chgo would love to be pumping lake mich water all over. big bucks.
but it requires all the great lakes states and canada to approve such a thing.

[2naSalit]

9. So...

As of Dec. 19, 1.43 million gals/sec of Atchafalaya River water was simply going into the Gulf of Mexico without producing electricity or supporting commercial shipping.

What I want to know is, has the author actually considered the environmental impacts of such a project?

This sounds like a desperate appeal to, once again, frantically go full scream ahead with a massive project that hardly considers the long term impacts where the temporary quick fix will cause more harm than it is supposed to be relieving.

Desperate thinking is rarely a good way to solve a problem of our own creation which we didn't put much forethought into in the first place.

No, just NO. It's the same desperate thinking that proposes piping water from the great lakes.

[asiliveandbreathe]

11. I hope my email to the authors will shed more light on the subject..

All proposals on the table..waiting is NOT an option..

Of course ALL aspects of the environment needs to be discussed..but..I like the authors creds..

Alphecca Muttardy is a Macroeconomist with the Coalition for a National Infrastructure Bank (NIBCoalition.com), and 25 year veteran of the International Monetary Fund. Don Siefkes is an MIT-trained chemical engineer who represents the Coalition for the NIB in the San Francisco Bay Area. Their emails are, respectively, [e-mail] and [e-mail].

[2naSalit]

21. I don't like their creds at all...

Not if they are the only ones heading this. I don't see where a chemical engineer and macroeconomist are trained in observing the environmental impacts.

The environmental impacts will outweigh the desired effect. People need to realize that major changes in values and behavior need to take place and fast in order for our species, and too many others, to survive much longer.

Once again, commerce takes the front seat and actual biological survival is an afterthought. Once again, it's all about the Benjamins.

Arizona is mostly desert so I don't have much empathy if the water doesn't hold up. Taking water from one environment to one so different is going to be a problem in time. It already is, millions of people living there under the false pretense that they can control nature to facilitate their unnatural lifestyles insisting on living like they it's a grassland.

Money first as a path to anything will fail.

[Phoenix61]

27. Right there with you.

The water shortage issue didn’t happen overnight. They saw it coming yet continued to build.

[2naSalit]

28. I used to...

Pass through and stay in Phoenix back in the day, last time I there until 2019, the I-10 was finally finished all the way out to Buckeye. When I flew in to visit friends in 2019, I was shocked to see that it had grown to the size of LA from which I had just departed. My friends live in a suburb that used to be sage desert way out of town, now it's all freeways and development and you can drive for over an hour just to get to the airport, one of three. There was only only when I had been there in earlier years.

Not sustainable but too many think we are on this planet to control its natural environment for or luxury. Corrections will be made by nature and they won't be pretty.

[Chainfire]

12. The more they get the more they will spend. Overspending is what got them were they are today!

Arizona needs to live within Arizonan resources. Running out of water is a sign that perhaps you are overpopulated or over-farmed or both. There was a reason that the place was named Arizona and not Oasis.

[asiliveandbreathe]

13. I agree..but, who is going to stop the building..have you seen West of Phoenix..

and East to AJ??..do we tell the Saudis to stop irrigating their alfalfa???..Totally agree to that..Unless they, Saudis, plan to help solve the solution..they can invest in LIV..(golf)..or Jared , $2B..or Twitter..but, I digress...business as usual is not an option..

[Chainfire]

15. We see the same thing here in Florida.

Our population grew nearly 2% this year! That is unsustainable, especially when the people go to places that do not have the natural resources to support the population. Miami would love to pipe water from the rural areas of N. Fla. where that resource is currently plentiful, and eventually they will get what they want because developers lead and the Republican government follows.

It is not just the heavily urban areas that are growing here either. Our small cities are becoming big cities and are losing the very qualities that have drawn the people to them. Only the weather remains... Of course, we have surprise weather that people find unpleasant too!

Florida and Arizona share a common trait that is telling. The majority of their population were born in other states. A big problem with both states is growth. Less than 40% of Florida's population was born here. (perhaps we need to build a wall) If Florida's native New Yorkers went home we would lose nearly 10% of our population!

I contend that the problem is not the lack of water, so providing more water won't fix it.

[asiliveandbreathe]

26. The building within AZ is so shortsighted..I keep asking where are we getting the water??

..I will continue to follow up..several years ago I went to our city and state agencies, when the golf course decided to drill a new well..I went all the way to a Goergia well digger for info...I shared it with them..of course, with hands in so many pockets, it was a "fall deaf on ears moment"..at least the course cemented the 5 ponds, as we were losing water through the ground...

My letter to one of the authors..

Just a curious AZ citizen who finds your idea interesting. Several of us at our social network have been discussing your article..overall, it is the environmental impact, cost and oversight to prevent over runs.., and how to tackle the issue of the Continental Divide..just some of the comments within our debate..

Of course, we have naysayers..any proposal of this magnitude will surely have pushback..this pushback is often due to a lack of information. Congress, EPA..and any other Fed state agency who need to be petitioned..HR 3339..the more information the better..

AZ and the West cannot wait, desalination plant..pipe from Sea of Cortez, or raise the height of one of the dams..

Thank you for your article..hope to read more, as we surely do need to advance proposals..AZ and the Western states don't have time to waste.

[bluedigger]

17. Water prefers to run downhill.

It seems like pumping 100,000 gal/sec from near sea level over the Continental Divide would be a pretty big lift.

[asiliveandbreathe]

19. I love all the comments..will surely include in my letter to the authors at the

link..I hope everyone gets involved with this crisis..yes, crisis,,and we hear more about the debate..looking at the map at link..ddo you suppose the proposal is south far enough to avoid blasting??..

[bluedigger]

22. If a lunkhead like me can raise objections, imagine what an engineer could come up with.

I would expect blasting would be necessary in many, many places along the route. I-70 crosses the Divide in NM at over 7,200' AMSL. It just looks flat. The entire route would have to be surveyed for below ground impact to cultural resources, excepting those stretches already studied for highway construction, but archaeologists work for peanuts. (More an issue of time than money there.) I'd like to see a cost comparison to desalinization plants on the West Coast. Something needs to be considered certainly, as we are running out of water to ship to the flatlanders in Phoenix from the West Slope.

[asiliveandbreathe]

24. Feast your eyes on what Ducey proposed..

https://www.enr.com/articles/55659-arizona-advances-55b-mexico-desalination-plant-proposal#:~:text=Arizona%20officials%20voted%20to%20advance%20a%20%245.5-billion%20plan,method%20of%20implementation%20threatens%20to%20derail%20the%20proposal.

Arizona officials voted to advance a $5.5-billion plan to build a water desalination plant in Mexico, as well as a 200-mile pipeline and associated infrastructure as part of a state effort to address its drought-driven water uncertainty. But growing controversy around the plan and the method of implementation threatens to derail the proposal. Map at link..

NO lunkhead..afterall, Pats fan heah, good company..I would call you a THINKER..we need the EPA, congress involved..of course, MUST study all aspects of proposal..cost comparison?? How dare you.. of course cost runs..I want oversight as well..we are in a crisis..requires all hands on deck..

[Kali]

23. probably be cheaper to ship the more recent (less than 50 years?) back home

[Ptah]

29. Phew.

We moved here in 1967.

[Kali]

31. ...