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Starry Messenger

(32,375 posts)
Wed Feb 11, 2015, 07:13 PM Feb 2015

A City Where Everyone Works, There Is No Police, And The Salary Is 1200 Euros

http://www.the-open-mind.com/a-city-where-everyone-works-there-is-no-police-and-the-salary-is-1200-euros/


Unemployment is non-existent in Marinaleda, an Andalusian village in southern Spain that is prosperous thanks to its farming cooperative.

<snip>

In this province alone there are 690,000 empty properties due to bank foreclosures. But not in Marinaleda, because Gordillo has a solution: anyone who wants to build their own house can do so for free. Materials and qualified workmen are provided by the town hall, and the generous allowance of 192 square meters means the homes are spacious. Families then pay just 15 euros ($19) per month for the rest of their lives, with the agreement that the house cannot be sold for private gain.

In Andalusia, unemployment now stands at 37 percent (a staggering 55 percent for young people). But Marinaleda, population 2700, has virtually full employment through the town’s farming cooperative, where laborers earn equal wages of 1200 euros ($1600) per month. Here, in a region where 1 in 3 people are unemployed, this achievement cannot be understated.

<snip>

“We need to rethink our values, the consumer society, the value we place on money, selfishness and individualism,” Gordillo remarks. “Marinaleda is a small example, and we want this experience to extend throughout the world.”

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A City Where Everyone Works, There Is No Police, And The Salary Is 1200 Euros (Original Post) Starry Messenger Feb 2015 OP
Families that only have to pay 19 dollars a month could really create strong families. I love this midnight Feb 2015 #1
The Basque region in Spain also has the . . . brush Feb 2015 #17
I wish I spoke spanish. There are some good links to the Montdragon system. midnight Feb 2015 #24
K&R! Phlem Feb 2015 #2
One can hardly even fathom this...amazing social system. libdem4life Feb 2015 #3
Amazing underpants Feb 2015 #4
Very nice ornotna Feb 2015 #5
2067 sq ft, to put it in units that most here could visualize more easily Electric Monk Feb 2015 #12
Just found out yesterday that ... aggiesal Feb 2015 #25
The basement sleepers were in a firetrap. Housing codes would never allow that now. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #34
i like this . allan01 Feb 2015 #6
Like the Movie It's A Wonderful Live project_bluebook Feb 2015 #7
, blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #8
K&R. Glad to hear it. Overseas Feb 2015 #9
Great post Omaha Steve Feb 2015 #10
k and a most heartfelt r--there is hope. niyad Feb 2015 #11
If you can get broadband there, I'd consider it for my retirement. (n/t) Jim Lane Feb 2015 #13
Only 40 miles from Malaga/ Costa Del Sol, 1 of 10 best cities to retire ErikJ Feb 2015 #29
So Malaga $950/month, Marinaleda $19/month? Jim Lane Feb 2015 #38
Well, if rent is just slightly over one percent of your income-- eridani Feb 2015 #14
K & R ctsnowman Feb 2015 #15
I wonder how many of them go to war to fight for the wealth of the .01%. nt valerief Feb 2015 #16
I'll bet the citizens are healthier too because of less stress world wide wally Feb 2015 #18
Where's the Libertarian example? Texano78704 Feb 2015 #19
Here's a more detailed article on the same village: TinkerTot55 Feb 2015 #20
The last time the Spanish people tried this Franco killed them. Buenaventura Feb 2015 #21
Yeah, don't think that the Kochs or Bushes would tolerate that here either. lark Feb 2015 #22
Communism – In the heart of America?!? ErikJ Feb 2015 #23
As far as I can tell... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #27
I toured a Hutterite farm in east Washington state once ErikJ Feb 2015 #30
That's definitely a relevant quote... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #33
Wow...societies and governments everywhere... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #26
I like the system as far as it goes but I cannot help but ask: where are the disabled and elderly? jwirr Feb 2015 #28
there are some elderly shaayecanaan Feb 2015 #35
The fact that only one person per household is allowed to work would allow for taking care of jwirr Feb 2015 #36
it was the real world for all of human history shaayecanaan Feb 2015 #40
Oh that is why I was interested in the first place but then I read how they are not interested in jwirr Feb 2015 #43
commies........you're all a bunch of commies.... Adam051188 Feb 2015 #31
Uhhhmmm...yeah. ret5hd Feb 2015 #32
I just got home from a day away at a conference. Starry Messenger Feb 2015 #37
When I feel depressed about the world vive la commune Feb 2015 #39
I didn't think it was stupid when I posted it TBF Feb 2015 #41
I was lucky the title was already written on the site I got this from. Starry Messenger Feb 2015 #42
I do like this element of the experiment. As I have posted before it does not take into account the jwirr Feb 2015 #44
A valid concern TBF Feb 2015 #45
The distribution of resources in our future is another reason to look at these models. jwirr Feb 2015 #46

brush

(57,587 posts)
17. The Basque region in Spain also has the . . .
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 10:37 AM
Feb 2015

Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Montdragon Cooperative system (google it).

I wonder if this is connected to that?

And we in the US should consider these kinds of worker ownership systems.

Wait for it though . . . pure hardcore capitalists will howl any minute now that we can't go down that socialist road.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
12. 2067 sq ft, to put it in units that most here could visualize more easily
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 01:07 AM
Feb 2015

Definitely not a shoebox. My grandparents raised 6 kids in a house 2/3 that size.

aggiesal

(9,474 posts)
25. Just found out yesterday that ...
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 02:44 PM
Feb 2015

the house where I was raised until 18 years old, with 8 kids total and 2 parents
was only 943 Sq. ft.

The 3 oldest boys, shared a bedroom with 2 beds, the 3 girls shared 1 bedroom
with 1 bed and bunk beds, and the 2 youngest boys shared 1 bed in a bedroom.

We had a basement, that we converted an area into a bedroom for the 3 oldest,
to accommodate the 2 youngest sleeping closer to the parents, but the basement
really wasn't living space, more storage, and tornado shelter.

allan01

(1,950 posts)
6. i like this .
Wed Feb 11, 2015, 08:52 PM
Feb 2015

we also need to get rid of ppl like the late j.p morgan who had a strangle hold on this country. id love to see a community like this in our country good luck to them

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
29. Only 40 miles from Malaga/ Costa Del Sol, 1 of 10 best cities to retire
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 02:57 PM
Feb 2015

And is in between Grenada, Seville and Cordoba.

World's 10 best cities to retire on a budget

Malaga Spain:

Spain was hard hit by the global economic crisis, but that provides opportunities for those looking for real estate, which is in abundant supply. Malaga is the gateway to the Costa del Sol -- one of Spain's primary tourism regions. The city of more than 1 million people is both quaint and vibrant, with plenty of shops, museums and food "to die for." Spanish is the primary language, of course, but you can get by with English, too. Apartments and condos in the city center are relatively small by U.S. standards -- averaging a bit under 1,000 square feet. But a nice place can be had for $950 per month, and less if you're willing to live farther from the beach or the center of town. You can also move to one of the nearby seaside villages, where living is cheaper. Buses and trains into town are frequent and convenient.

http://www.cbsnews.com/media/worlds-10-best-cities-to-retire-on-a-budget/2/

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
38. So Malaga $950/month, Marinaleda $19/month?
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 11:34 PM
Feb 2015

I'm surprised Malaga is that expensive. If I'm going to put up with the negatives of being an expat in retirement, it will have to be in exchange for a substantially lower cost of living than in the U.S.

Thanks for the link! Some of the other places on that list seem worth checking out.

lark

(24,165 posts)
22. Yeah, don't think that the Kochs or Bushes would tolerate that here either.
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 01:21 PM
Feb 2015

There's no way they would let this happen, why, why -that's just pure socialism and doesn't punish folks for being poor.

Can't have that - no way.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
23. Communism – In the heart of America?!?
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 01:22 PM
Feb 2015
http://www.godinanutshell.com/project/dimensions-of-reality/communism-in-the-heart-of-america/

One of the oldest American communist communities is not in Cuba, Venezuela or Nicaragua but has been established well over 100 years ago right in heartland of the USA. It is still around today with thriving colonies which would make the eyes of some old soviet comrades shed tears of joy confirming that their ideals did work after all.

But there is a snag – these guys didn’t embrace atheism as the basis of their communist ideals but instead they have embraced Christ as the core of their belief system and they keep the Bible at the very heart of their communities.
On this note the tears of joy for the old soviet comrades might choke up slightly.



Still all this may be hard to swallow for the American mindset:
Capitalism = Good = Christianity
Communism = Evil = Atheism


And yet the oldest working communist community, being devoutly Christian is practising their faith and lifestyle in South Dakota, Montana, Manitoba, Canada and many other places.


NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
27. As far as I can tell...
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 02:52 PM
Feb 2015

there is little in our capitalistic system that would get a thumbs up from Christ.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
30. I toured a Hutterite farm in east Washington state once
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 03:16 PM
Feb 2015

They were quite nice. They had family living quarters but all shared a common kitchen. They shared all the latest farm equipment and were very successful farmers compared to their neighbor independent small farmers. They limit their size to 100-150 and then split into a new colony. They often buy out their neighboring farm's or acres.
This is an interesting Bible verse, even though I'm agnostic.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
33. That's definitely a relevant quote...
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 06:05 PM
Feb 2015

especially in this day and age when "prosperity gospel" preachers tell us that we can all get rich by donating to their "ministries."

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
35. there are some elderly
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 07:21 PM
Feb 2015

not a whole lot of disabled people though. There is no welfare system, you have to work if you want to get paid and its reasonably hard work.

Its worth noting that only one person per household is allowed to work. This means that family structures tend towards being traditional.

Also worth noting that there are still non communists living in the town from before the communists took over 30 yeas ago. Currently there is a two year waiting list and they are only interested in people who are prepared to work and participate as communists.

I think a lot of people think of this as some kind of funky gated community or something. Its not.

Bear in mind that they only won their land by occupying it from the landlords. Not sure how that would fly on good old du.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
36. The fact that only one person per household is allowed to work would allow for taking care of
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 10:38 PM
Feb 2015

someone who could not work and needed a caregiver.

Having said that I think this is an experiment that does not allow for the real world. There are disabled and elderly everywhere.

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
40. it was the real world for all of human history
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:08 AM
Feb 2015

until industrial capitalism came along. If any of us survive its demise then it will become the real world once more.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
43. Oh that is why I was interested in the first place but then I read how they are not interested in
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:58 AM
Feb 2015

letting anyone who cannot work join. That is not the real world. And for many of them aging and disability will become a reality because of their work. To plan a community for the future one must take into account that reality unless they are planning on getting rid of anyone with the normal problems of life.

Starry Messenger

(32,375 posts)
37. I just got home from a day away at a conference.
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 11:18 PM
Feb 2015

I'm touched to see the replies and recs on this thread--I've had the article in my browser tabs for a couple of days and hesitated to post it, thinking people here might think it was stupid. Sure, things about this city might be hard to scale, and there are limits to this kind of small-scale cooperation, but...it's also good to have dreams and see there are paths, and people walking on them.

vive la commune

(94 posts)
39. When I feel depressed about the world
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 12:19 AM
Feb 2015

Thinking about Marinaleda is one thing that cheers me up and gives me hope. That and the Kurdish communities in Rojava and the Zapatistas.

TBF

(34,321 posts)
41. I didn't think it was stupid when I posted it
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:13 AM
Feb 2015

months ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10245442

But then I never get many recs. I guess I kind of suck at writing good titles to draw people in. It's an interesting concept and there are others out there. The first criticism thrown out is that these types of society will only work for small groups but I don't buy that. I think the bigger problem, as we see going back to the Paris Commune, is that people in power now are very reluctant to give it up.

Starry Messenger

(32,375 posts)
42. I was lucky the title was already written on the site I got this from.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:21 AM
Feb 2015

I suck at writing titles!

These days, since the Bay Area is so dog-eat-dog economically, it is heartening to see a city existing in a spirit of cooperation. It gave me the feels.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
44. I do like this element of the experiment. As I have posted before it does not take into account the
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:03 AM
Feb 2015

elements of real life - aging and disabilities. I would like to see them included in this model. This model should be taken seriously as a replacement of our greedy corporations and capitalists - worker owned is the best way to go. For a replacement of a whole community I think it falls short.

TBF

(34,321 posts)
45. A valid concern
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:48 AM
Feb 2015

and one I share as I have a father who was disabled due to his service in the Vietnam war. He was a young man (enlisted at 17 with parental signature) and managed to work 15 years in a factory after his military service before giving in to retirement. At the end he could only drive forklift as his disabilities worsened - but he was proud to be able to do that as long as he did.

I talk about the Venus Project a fair amount in here because it's one of the models that focuses on distribution of resources as needed. That seems like a far better system given the environmental challenges we are facing. We are literally destroying the planet in our quest for profit. Any new system I'd design would eliminate currency completely.

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