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Neon Gods

(222 posts)
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:24 PM Jan 2015

I'm sticking my toe in the water...

Hi, I'm a socialist, but socialist/socialism is a broad term and there seems to be different degrees, if you will, of socialism, so I'm not sure if I fit here.

I'm 69 and retired from the federal government. Out of high school I worked in a factory that was represented by the UAW. I was a member for a few years. I also spent four years in the military then used the GI Bill to get a degree and then got a job as a cartographer with the government.

I believe every worker should be a member of a union. That right should be encouraged, facilitated, and protected by the federal government. That should be one of liberal's/progressive's highest priorities. Another high priority should be educating voters on the true meaning of capitalism, and what socialism really is. The American public is woefully ignorant of capitalism, especially. In other words our first order of business is education. We must convince workers that joining unions is in their best interests and that, of course, the wealthy and corporate America will do anything to convince them otherwise.

As for capitalism, I believe it does some things better than socialism, but only if highly regulated, with diligent oversight, and a mechanism for modifying regulations at a moment's notice because capitalists have high paid legal experts constantly looking for loopholes to exploit. Which means we will have to have a large, flexible government able to nimbly regulate, investigate, and prosecute when necessary.

As for socialism, we are already, in many ways, a socialist nation. The government provides far more services and goods than anyone knows. The Internet, GPS, weather satellites, etc., etc., all developed by or provided by our socialist government. How come no one in power has the guts to point this out? My wildest dream is that someone running for Congress would ask their Tea Party opponent if they would search out and eliminate any and all socialist programs in government. If they said yes!, then pull out a six-foot long list of government services and programs that they can start with.

So my version of socialism would allow a highly regulated form of capitalism, with workers unionized, and the government would ensure everyone has adequate food, water, shelter, health care, day care for those who need it, free public education (including college), a secure voluntary retirement at an appropriate age, etc., etc.

I'm not sure if this group envisions a government that allows a capitalist component or not. I have a hard time envisioning a happy, successful, progressive society without allowing for some measure of capitalism. If that violates one of the requirements of this group let me know. I'll understand.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm sticking my toe in the water... (Original Post) Neon Gods Jan 2015 OP
Thank you and a belated welcome to DU! gopiscrap Jan 2015 #1
I lurked for a while before joining Nyc72dem Jan 2015 #2
Here in Socialist Progressives? TBF Jan 2015 #10
Welcome! Sherman A1 Jan 2015 #3
Stick around. candelista Jan 2015 #4
Good point. Neon Gods Jan 2015 #14
Welcome & thanks for a thoughtful & well written OP Divernan Jan 2015 #5
Welcome to DU! You seem to have a solid grip on the issues - and reality. Glad you're here. Scuba Jan 2015 #6
"How come no one in power has the guts to point this out?" F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #7
I've often thought one thing that is missing is a theory... phantom power Jan 2015 #8
Our welcome thread is here - TBF Jan 2015 #9
Thanks, I checked it out Neon Gods Jan 2015 #15
I too, am an old socialist, bobalew Jan 2015 #11
I don't think we have any prescribed belief system around here. Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #12
Thank you all! Neon Gods Jan 2015 #13
A hundred years ago we had socialists TBF Jan 2015 #16
If he runs... Neon Gods Jan 2015 #17
 

Nyc72dem

(63 posts)
2. I lurked for a while before joining
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:27 PM
Jan 2015

You got 75% Hillary haters here and 25% Hillary lovers. That's what I see. I'm proudly in the 75%

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
3. Welcome!
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jan 2015
I am of the mindset that capitalism is fine, as long as you regulate very heavily. That said, what we have is in my opinion no longer serving the good of the people and is in need of significant adjustment. A moderate Socialism, blended with Capitalism would in my view point serve us far, far better.
 

candelista

(1,986 posts)
4. Stick around.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:35 PM
Jan 2015

In your post, you said,

My version of socialism would allow a highly regulated form of capitalism, with workers unionized, and the government would ensure everyone has adequate food, water, shelter, health care, day care for those who need it, free public education (including college), a secure voluntary retirement at an appropriate age, etc., etc.


One key element that you left out is public ownership and control of the basic means of production. This would permit some small scale capitalism, but without nationalization of big business and the banks, it's not socialism; it's welfare-state capitalism. How do you feel about that?

Neon Gods

(222 posts)
14. Good point.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:04 PM
Jan 2015

I agree that a lot of our corporations and banks are frighteningly large. Their size translates to power, political and economic power, and we need to find a way to deal with it even under our present political/economic system. In other words, we should be doing this now! I don't know how to do it. There is very little public support at this time for nationalization, at least not among my acquaintances.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
7. "How come no one in power has the guts to point this out?"
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jan 2015

Disappointing, isn't it?

Good for dipping your toe in! I just started going to regular meetings with the Puget Sound branch of the International Socialist Organization up here in Seattle. If there's a group anywhere near where you live, I highly suggest jumping in and getting involved if you can. You can learn a ton, and it's a really good way to get connected within the activist community. I've already had more challenging political discussions with them than I have in years of talking to people, and been a participant in my first real protest. Even going to see John Carlos speak tomorrow!

Also, I think your position just about sums up mine. Well said.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
8. I've often thought one thing that is missing is a theory...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jan 2015

about when certain industries should evolve (or be evolved) from a capitalist model toward a socialist model. Speaking generally: capitalism is a pretty good model for young, innovative industries, and/or industries mostly involving discretionary purchases.

Some industries, however, evolve into a more "public infrastructure" role. In recent history, the Internet might be the best example. Not too long ago, it was a novelty, and a "nice to have" but it is rapidly becoming effectively indispensible public infrastructure, much like electricity and phone lines have been effectively indispensible for several decades now.

Somewhat independent of that, is the notion that market-based decision making is only effective under certain conditions:
*) the decision space is small enough and simple enough for an average human to navigate, without extensive training.
*) a rich competitive environment is feasible, with lots of options to choose from
*) demand is fairly elastic

It's not hard to see that, for example, choosing what brands to buy while grocery shopping satisfies the above conditions fairly well, but things like electricity, internet, or health care do not. I've often thought that things like purchasing cars, or houses, lie somewhere in between.

TBF

(34,179 posts)
9. Our welcome thread is here -
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jan 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10245634

I encourage you to read it. We have other democratic socialists in the group but I think our hosts are all socialists (meaning we do not see the value of capitalism and would prefer it be gone).

So, you are welcome to read in here but if you spend your time trying to convert us I doubt you'll enjoy the answers you'll get.

Honestly I think you are much more in line with much of the general readership of DU (not the third way moderates of course - but the liberals of the board) and I think you might really enjoy another one of the DU groups (the populist group): http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1277



bobalew

(361 posts)
11. I too, am an old socialist,
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:05 PM
Jan 2015

What you do describe is the spitting image of several Scandinavian countries, today.. We could do well to follow those models, including that of ICELAND, who JAILED their criminal bankers. We should do that also, But alas, we have a recalcitrant, Koch Paid for, Repubican't base, who only protect their financiers & cannot bring themselves to actually represent their PEOPLE, instead.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
12. I don't think we have any prescribed belief system around here.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jan 2015

Some may agree with you, some may not. We debate stuff. We learn from each other. We evolve in our viewpoints, and not all in the same direction.

And welcome.

Neon Gods

(222 posts)
13. Thank you all!
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:54 PM
Jan 2015

I feel more comfortable here now. I'm still evolving on this and other issues. It is hard to accept that changing the public's perception about unions and socialism will take years of patient work, unless, ironically, the 1% get even more greedy and completely destroy the middle class and begin starving the poor, literally. Right now they (and their greed) are our biggest allies, IMO, and they don't even know it!

Thanks for the welcome. It's nice to meet people who "get it."

TBF

(34,179 posts)
16. A hundred years ago we had socialists
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jan 2015

on the ballot for president in this country getting a million votes (back when unions were strong). That's not a majority by anyone's math, but it's more people than some would have you believe. I'm hoping Bernie will make a run. He's not perfect, but he's better than most we have in office currently.

Neon Gods

(222 posts)
17. If he runs...
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:44 PM
Jan 2015

...he will have to confront the fact that he is a socialist and he will have to explain what it is and why he chooses socialism. Even if he loses, that will be a huge benefit to us and to political discourse in America. I too hope he runs.

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