Interesting Twitter rant about "We Are The Left," Marx, and Identity Politics:

[Saviolo]

From Helen Razer, the very long rant is storified here:
https://storify.com/number86/helen-razer-tweetstorm-on-marxism-teh-left

Interesting discussion on what it means to be "left" "liberal" and a bit of discussion about the Base/Superstructure.

I found it on Tim Minchin's Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/timminchin
If you haven't heard of Tim, he's an extremely smart and funny musician and comedian from Australia.

[bluedye33139]

1. Liberalism v the left

A major national party like the Democratic party can never really be leftist because the responsibilities of governing in the United States preclude dismantling our economic system. Democrats are liberals, some more progressive and some more conservative than others. Installing a totalitarian Marxist regime in the United States would probably require killing 10 to 50 million Americans, and I don't think the Democratic Party should have this as a goal. Although Hipsters love pretending to be revolutionary!

[RoccoR5955]

3. I do not think it would involve any killing

but it might involve an awful lot of education. This could kill more than 100 million people, as it seems that people here in the US despise learning.
Schools these days are not bastions of education. They are training centers. They train folks how to be good capitalists. Perhaps if we let people learn how to learn for themselves, they might choose a different economic system, since capitalism is failing.

[2banon]

8. the tweet in the OP seems to be a completely different discussion.

The author (of the tweet) is rebutting the very mistaken notion that identity politics is consistent with Marxist principles.

I agree with the author of the tweet, Identity Politics is not representative of Marxism.

In my view, Identity Politics is neither Left nor Right

If you go to the tweet, you'll find the arguments on both sides of that question.

It isn't about the Democratic Party's principles, platform positions, inclinations, or persuasion.

[2banon]

2. Identity Politics "intersecting" with Marxism is like

intersecting apples with tuna fish. It tastes great intersected together, but one food group has absolutely no relationship to the other food group other than as products to be consumed.

[Starry Messenger]

4. It just read like a hot mess to me.

[forjusticethunders]

5. I wrote a response the other day.

Essentially both sides are missing the full picture.

Identity is important but you cannot have a full intersectional analysis without class, because class is the *universal* intersection. Your socio-economic class affects *how* and *to what extent* your identity affects you. Wealth may not stop a black man from getting shot by the wrong racist cop BUT it enables him to take measures to lower his chances of running into that cop, or experiencing other aspects of racial oppression (wealth enables him to live in a secure neighborhood, to more readily access the right to vote because he has property to prove his identity and the means to get around any roadblocks to access, to send his children to good schools rather than semi-segregated ones funded by the property taxes of a neglected area, etc.) Laverne Cox and my partner may be both trans women of color, but (and as much as I adore and respect Laverne), her wealth allows her to navigate her transness and in ways not available to my partner.

Class is important but you cannot have a full class analysis without examining how different identities experience class. A working class black woman experiences class in a different way than a working class white male who experiences class in a different way than a white trans woman with mental illness. They all suffer from a lack of resources, but that lack of resources affects them in different and unique ways, which has to fit into any class based analysis.

[LWolf]

7. We all have multiple identities.

Race, ethicity, sexual orientation, gender, class, belief system, etc.; the are all interconnected and it simply doesn't work, in my experience, to try to segregate them.

[2banon]

9. Yes, we have to have both a Class and Race Analysis.

you put it very well.

[socialist_n_TN]

10. Good post. Yes, class IS the "universal" intersection, but.......

to ignore the way that identity affects oppression in the various groups, ignores objective realities. And ignoring objective realities is NOT a Marxist trait. All Marxist analysis has to start with the objective reality of any situation.

[tralala]

12. Theres already a wealth of marxist lit on the National Question

But people want their old wine in new bottles

[socialist_n_TN]

13. I agree...........

and that's a good way of putting it.

It's like the young activists who think that the class struggles of the 19th and 20th centuries are irrelevant today in the 21st century. My answer is that social forces are social forces and their basic natures do not change. The names of groups and organizations that represent these forces might change, production methods might change, even the nomenclature for those social forces might change, but the forces themselves always have the same basic nature.

[LWolf]

6. I've given up expecting

any particular label to be solidly rooted, with a universally understood meaning. Like all words, there are often different denotations and connotations for the same word. When I say "liberal," it can mean something completely different than when someone else says it. That, and language evolves.

I know what I am, but no longer even try to label myself, since some will misunderstand, some will deliberately misinterpret, and some will try to spin me into what I am not.

This rant about "identity politics" was interesting, because it gave me yet another way to think about identity politics. I probably agree with some of that rant.

I don't agree with "identity politics" when it comes to choosing a candidate to support based on racial or gender identity, for example, as if electing that person means they are the best workers for most of the most important issues. That's symbolism, and I want activism.

Still, there are valid points in that rant. The point that misogyny and other kinds of bigotry exist on the left is one.