I wish I could tag folks like Facebook (Starry, Socialist n TN, etc)

[TBF]

So, comrades, what is it going to be? Are we going to change the focus here? Because if we are I need to deal with that straight up. I am going to be very specific and blunt here. We have a low count poster come in here this morning with a very long diatribe and then sum up with the following sentence "And in most cases, the socialist progressive will have to settle for changes short of their ideological leanings." What in the actual fuck? I would like to hear suggestions from regular posters on how you would like to change the focus of the group if at all (please see before). And if we are going to change this group to "ok we're socialists but we're ready for Hillary" then you all need to be very specific about that so we all know and understand what is going on here. So, what is it going to be?


"Welcome Comrades! *** Updated July 22, 2014 ***
This discussion thread is pinned and locked. It is closed to new replies.
Socialist Progressives Group - SOP

Welcome to the Socialist Progressives Group. Posts in this group should generally be supportive of socialism and socialists. We are largely anti-capitalist and will not tolerate red-baiting. We welcome leftists of all persuasion as allowed per the admin's TOS. Democratic (ballot box) socialism, revolutionary socialism, Syndicalists and autonomists are all ok. Pure black flag (as opposed to red/black) anarchists who would rather organize with any anarchist than socialists, including anarcho-capitalists and libertarians, will not be welcome. If you don't know what kind of anarchist you are, cool, so long as you don't hijack and red-bait. This includes no "you're a dictator-lover" if you support the Russian Revolution. CPUSA members, please chime in.

Social Democrats are welcome with the explanation that if someone believes in "regulated" capitalism and social programs, they're a Keynesian, not a socialist. We welcome your questions as long as you're pleasant and don't red bait or shift the discussion away from socialism. You'll find many of us support Obama and his re-election given our two-party system, but this is not the forum to talk about the intricacies of elections - see the Politics forum for those conversations. We are more concerned with safe-guarding the working class gains we've made in this country thus far and encouraging the peaceful transition to socialism. Please no Trotsky or Stalin baiting, we've all seen it fracture groups and do not want to fight that battle again.

*** Updated 7/21/2014: We've been in this group for a couple of years now and we are excited to see the growth in readership. Please be aware, however, that this is a protected group. Our purpose is to view issues through a working class lens. As capitalism has become a global force we are in solidarity with workers worldwide. Expect that we will discuss the effects of capitalism on the working class in all areas - whether it agrees with the view of the current administration or not. Sometimes visitors to our group seem determined to contribute only because they feel the need to protect certain politicians or viewpoints. If you care to add a substantive and productive comment on the OPs here, in the spirit of our SOP, that kind of contribution is welcomed. Throw-away comments from newcomers who haven't posted in here before, especially of the "snark" variety, are not welcome and will not be tolerated. Either contribute in a positive way or you will be banned on either a temporary or permanent basis.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

1. I vote no changes.

That OP was a patronizing attempt to legitimize triangulation. We are socialists (of varying stripes) and should stick to our principles, and this group should remain a refuge for our ideals. This primary/election cycle will come and go, but the struggle of Socialists will continue.

[socialist_n_TN]

2. Yep. I agree with Joe on this........

There are probably some obvious things we can't do like support third parties, but as you said, elections and primaries come and go, but the revolution is permanent.

[TBF]

4. Right we are limited by constraints of the TOS

but we don't have to give away the farm either. imo.

[socialist_n_TN]

5. I wouldn't change anything. Let the admins weigh in if they feel the need......

But it's easier to ask forgiveness that permission.

BTW, I'm assuming you deleted the post you were talking about and possibly blocked the poster. Is it archived somewhere? I'd like to read it.

[TBF]

6. No I can't delete anything and our top host rec'd the post

so we are in a quandry. Or at least I am in a quandry. I don't want to be part of a socialist group that supports statements such as these:

"It's important to remember that this takes lots of time and a good amount of money and a good amount of legwork, and it won't see results right away. And in most cases, the socialist progressive will have to settle for changes short of their ideological leanings. But this cannot be seen as a defeat because firstly, incremental progress still will improve people's lives, which is why the socialist is in this fight to begin with. And furthermore, incremental progress often sets the stage for major progress."

Read it in it's entirety here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/102411935

It should be entitled "How to sell out using big words to make yourself feel better".

[TBF]

9. Thanks Joe

as always appreciate you stopping by.

[TBF]

3. OK, that's 2 of you. Starry? nt

[Starry Messenger]

7. ?

Am I missing something? I thought it was a thoughtful discussion piece. There was lots more in there to talk about than that one phrase.

I don't see where that triggered a need to change the SOP.

I honestly don't think national elections are going to bring in socialism, just function to oppose the ultra-right, and stave off the worst of racism and other oppression.

The piece I recced spoke about coalition-building on the left, which is a necessary conversation.

Anyway, the bell for class is ringing in 10 minutes and I have an organizing drive this afternoon. It may be late when I get back to this, so apologies in advance.

[TBF]

8. We're going to have to get past election sabotage before we can get

to coalition building but yes I would like to see such a discussion happen. It's not going to come from a primer on lowering expectations however. At least not while we're in the middle of a time in which the two wings of the so-called "leftish" party are at odds.