Recently my CEO told me he's hiring a young smart Ph.D. to work with me.

[NNadir]

He said, "I want you to train him to be the young version of you."

I informed him that the young version of me didn't know shit.

I know a lot because I've seen a lot. It's experience, the joy of profiting by mistakes and remembering not to repeat them.

I know they're worried I'll die, which I will do eventually, so I understand them trying to do something about it.

(I told my son that when he gets his Ph.D. he still won't know shit, smart as he is.)

[Xipe Totec]

1. Been there, done that...

The PhD is now gone, but I'm still here, a full year past full retirement age.

[Ahna KneeMoose]

2. Same, But Then Had-To-Fly-On-The-Sly

In many years long ago and gone by

Had a serious job in finance, oh my

Was asked to train youngen's, sigh

Dropped a rezzie at workforce nearby

Skipped out all silent, like buh-bye

[NNadir]

3. I'm not going there.

I got a pretty decent bonus to not retire; I love what I do; and I'm not going to live forever. It is a privilege to have my job, and they've made it clear that I can keep it as long as I want to work and can work.

It is my responsibility to the (late) founder of my company - who I dearly loved - to see that the company survives each of us.

I want smart young people to train and gain experience; it's what I can leave to the world.

I'll welcome the kid and do my best to help him get started on what I hope will be a rewarding career.

[live love laugh]

7. ✓+

[Ahna KneeMoose]

10. Hoping You Live Long And Post Always

I understand as you detailed...and durn-well stated

Wishing you all the very best of more years onward(ed)

Appreciate your words: "It is a privilege to have my job..."

[ashredux]

4. Train him and they'll fire you.... Been there done that.

[NNadir]

5. Not worried. n/t.

[Jerry2144]

6. A PhD just means that

It’s piled higher and deeper

[NNadir]

9. A lot of them are indeed marginal; but others are unbelievably brilliant.

I prefer the latter, but they're relatively rare, but I help the former.

The degree is narrow, but one learns, at least in theory, how to do original work. For some, getting the degree is an excuse to stop doing original work; some are just burned out and cynical.

Others, generally the brilliant kind, are inspired by the act of discovery, and move through it for their whole lives, not just having learned how to do something narrow, but how to love doing something new.

[multigraincracker]

8. When I hired in at a car factory in 1972

the guy working next to had a Masters degree and the guy across the line from him doing the same job signed his name with an X. The guy with the Masters said he could get a job in his field because he didn’t want to take the cut in pay.

[NJCher]

15. I can believe that

I worked for one of the Big Three as it was known then—late 70s or early 80s. We in management loved to watch their union negotiations because we knew we would get 1 or 2% more than they negotiated.

Now, many decades later, I am on the negotiating team for an aft local and we tell true stories about McDonald’s workers making more than p-t professors. They are trying to eliminate tenure and make us all like part timers.

[multigraincracker]

17. I only worked on the line for 1 year.

I had perfect attendance, so I got every job I signed up for. After that first year I had a clerk job working between the offices and the floor. Pretty cush job that lasted 12 years when we were replaced with a computer. Then worked as a driver in the repair dept and that wasn't bad. The last five years I was a driver in the storage yard and that was piece work, got paid by the number of cars I moved. We'd do that at a dead run and ended up making 6 figures those last years. It was hard and dangerous work outside at night and all kinds of weather, but worth it. At the same time I went back and finish college paid for, except books by the company. Also opened a small antique shop at the same time. Never got bored and socked away the money so I could retire after 30 years at age 52 with full benifits. So, the last 21 years have been great.

[NJCher]

18. You are an enterprising soul

And it sounds like you had fun, too.

[multigraincracker]

20. Had some problems, that got solved.

Came from a family of academics. Dad was a college prof and mom a high school English teacher. My brother was an academic all American football player. I struggled and ended up with a drug problem. Quit on my own, but that landed me up in the Psych Ward for 2 weeks, which turned out changing my life. Had the greatest man on earth for a psychiatrist. He diagnosed me with ADD and a few learning disabilities and that explained all of my problems. Told me if I went back to college and sat in the front row, I'd get all A s. He was right. Graduated in the top 5% of my class. This after being told I was lazy and dumb all of my life. Life really began for me after 40.

[brer cat]

21. What an experience.

It can be hard to turn your life around as an adult, especially if you have been labeled as dumb and lazy. I'm glad you found the way forward.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. My Son The Astronomer is getting his PhD in astronomy.

I don't think it's accurate to say that when he get the degree, he still won't know shit.

I suppose the specific field is crucial here.

[NNadir]

12. My son the nuclear engineer/materials scientist is getting his Ph.D in nuclear engineering.

I hope when he gets to be my age, he'll feel as if he didn't know shit when he was a student.

An undergraduate learns how to read, and ideally a Ph.D. learns how to learn, but that's just a starting point, not a destination.

One has to be very well educated to know that one doesn't know shit, at least that's my opinion. Others may feel differently, but that's what I think.

Frankly, at the end of my life, I'm convinced that I really know very little but I'm still learning. It doesn't get any better than that. I'm a lucky guy.

[No Vested Interest]

13. And I appreciate your contributions of articles to DU, even though I don't

really understand what they're all about.

[NNadir]

24. Thank you for your kind words.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

14. Nuclear engineering sounds even more difficult than astronomy. By a lot.

Here's the thing. In the sciences, knowledge grows a lot, maybe even exponentially over time. And so what scientists learn early on, is completely transformed in a relatively short time.

Doesn't mean they didn't know shit somewhat early on. It just means they learn more stuff.

On a very mundane level, nothing like PhD stuff, I love learning new things. I cannot begin to compare myself to anyone getting an advanced degree, but I'll say this: I'm fascinated by EVERYTHING. I read lots and lots and lots, and more than half of what I read is non fiction. Which helps me learn new things.

Honestly reading books is the best way to learn stuff. Yeah, the internet in its many manifestations can be useful, but books are the best.

[NJCher]

16. That's why

I have around 25 out at one time with a big percentage being learning new skills, retrospectives, etc.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

19. Have around 25 what out?

I'm a bit confused.

[NJCher]

29. books from the library

eom

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. oh, okay.

[NNadir]

23. At the end of the day, astronomy is astrophysics, and any decent nuclear engineer should have at...

...least a basic understanding of astrophysics.

It's possible, not necessarily probable, but possible, that we will one day be able to build fusion reactors, inspired by the stars themselves.

I very much agree with you though. A person can earn a Ph.D. and stop reading and stop learning. I know a number of people in this category. They're functional, but limited in their utility.

A person can have no degree at all, and by basis of constant reading and working, develop into something sometimes characterized as "genius."

There are several examples of the latter. Recently I gave a lecture to a scientific group during which I referred to the discoverer of the element Francium, Marguerite Perey, who had a kind of technical certificate that allowed her to work as a laboratory assistant. The lab in which she worked was Marie Curie's. She got a Bachelor's degree after she discovered Francium, and then a Ph.D., getting the degrees so she could formally join a University Faculty. She was nominated 5 times for the Nobel Prize, but regrettably didn't receive it.

Then there's Vivien Thomas, who trained as a carpenter, was unable to afford college, and worked, often precariously because of his race, as a surgical assistant at Johns Hopkins - which at the time did not admit African Americans as students or faculty - and who ended up training many of the world's greatest cardiac surgeons. He is the subject of the biographical film Something the Lord Made.

The greatest of all these types is clearly Michael Faraday, an autodidact who founded, essentially, the science of electromagnetism. His career began when at the age of 14, when he got a job working for a book binder and seller. He never attended college formally, but is now regarded as one of the greatest scientists ever to have lived.

A Ph.D. whose exposure ends when the degree is handed over isn't worth all that much; they can be competent in a number of roles, and do a good job, but their value is limited. The degree certainly opens doors, but it doesn't make a career, and by making a career, I mean a valuable career, a career marked by accomplishment.

By contrast, A Ph.D. whose degree was just a means to begin a life of learning and whose efforts to earn one represented a love of learning, measured with a modicum of creativity, is a very valuable person.

I hope the kid they hire - I haven't interviewed him yet - is the latter, not the former.

[mnhtnbb]

22. I have two sons

The oldest is an autodidact who didn't want to go to college after graduating high school. He's 36 and a senior software engineer. Fortunately for me, he lives 10 minutes away and is my computer help when needed.

The youngest is 33 and went all the way to a DFA from Yale which was awarded last year. COVID killed theater and there have been no university jobs of interest to him for which 100 other people wouldn't also be applicants. So he developed a podcast, which was picked up by a podcasting network in February. It's almost unheard of for that to happen to podcasting newcomers. He's hoping--expecting--by the time his podcast is fully integrated with the network to see his listener numbers explode, which is how he can end up making some money from his podcast. His second season will begin in April. If this works as he hopes, he won't be forced to try to figure out some other kind of work to be able to support himself. https://www.artofcrimepodcast.com/
Luckily, he has no debt from all his years in school.

The oldest one owns a townhouse with his partner; the youngest one rents a house with his partner, who is a tenured associate professor at a major local university, but still has substantial debt from his days training to be an academic.

[Irish_Dem]

25. When you get a Ph.D. you realize how much you don't know.

It can be quite humbling.

[NNadir]

26. Hopefully, you learn as much in the process of getting one.

Getting educated is merely a process of understanding the depth of one's own ignorance.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Even when you know more about your dissertation topic than most of your professors.

You still realize how much more there is to learn.

Getting PhD doesn't mean you know everything, but it trains you to evaluate and learn throughout your career.

[NNadir]

28. True dat.