I used my first all-genders-together bathroom today.

[Croney]

We went to a play in Harvard Square. I'm used to unisex bathrooms of course, where any gender can use the single toilet, but this was a big bathroom and I had to walk by men at urinals to get to a stall. (I'm a woman.)

This brought up a question in my mind. If there's a crowd, and a line forms for the bathroom, can men bypass the line if they're just headed to a urinal? It's not like they're cutting in front of me since we're not competing for a urinal. But if they need a stall, they can't cut. So, if a man stays in line, we know what he has to do.

🙂

[TexasTowelie]

1. If women do take longer to use the bathroom, then this does have a negative effect on me.

Since I'm in a wheelchair I do require a stall for bathroom visits. However, you still have to guess what business I'm doing when inside the stall.

[Croney]

3. Yes, so wheelchair-accessible stalls should always be made available

to the next wheelchair user who arrives to the queue.

[Iggo]

39. Yep, they got next.

Always.

[VarryOn]

2. People with a penis should be able to go directly to any available urinal...

Not sure why anyone would question that.

[Croney]

5. Yes, but for a stall they join the queue.

[Lithos]

4. Had a similar setup in Japan when I was there

Typically there would be 2 queues - one for the urinal and another for the toilet.

[Croney]

6. Oh! That would work better.

[randr]

8. There is a devise that allows a woman to piss standing at urinals

Several women brought them on a river trip I guided back a ways. They could stand up in boat and piss over board just like the guys. No prob. Haven't thought of it until now, don't remember what it was called. Couldn't be too hard to find.

[unblock]

9. She-wee!

[Doodley]

10. I'm a guy and I have never used a urinal.

[cinematicdiversions]

37. If you don't mind me asking why?

It is an efficient and good for the environment solution.

[Doodley]

43. I like my privacy. Never used one as a child or an adult.

[Piasladic]

71. I wish there were stalls for urinals.

You're right about water use.

One thing I always loved about my husband was how he always sat to pee. I never asked him too; he just preferred it.

One thing that annoyed me is he took FOREVER! I'm doing the dance, and he's still tinkling.

[Disaffected]

38. No need to

when a sink is available.

[LisaL]

40. That idea makes all gender inclusive bathrooms even more attractive.

[Disaffected]

42. Fun (and convenience) for everyone!

[NurseJackie]

49. Just take the dishes out first...

[Disaffected]

61. Heh,

I was thinking more of the bathroom sink but, any port in a storm.......

[3catwoman3]

11. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I’m an intensely private person. I don’t even like brushing and flossing my teeth if my husband is already in our bathroom brushing his.

No way am I walking by unknown men using the urinals in a public bathroom.

[NJCher]

12. Same here

Unisex bathrooms? Why?

Nope, nope, nopity nope.

I rarely if ever use a public bathroom because a person can plan around it. With me it’s an issue of germs.

[janterry]

14. they tried this in an elementary school

and then stopped asap (you can imagine the problems it would create for young girls).

There's no way I would use this. I've seen the videos that men take and publish on reddit (and much worse. It's really bad).

Frankly, I avoid all public bathrooms these days because I no longer think they are safe.

Though thanks for the heads up. I'll post about this on a feminist site!

[Croney]

16. Seriously? Not a good idea for children.

Boundaries might be set verbally, but impossible to enforce.

I had that feeling of "oh no, I've walked into the wrong bathroom" so I just kept my eyes down as I washed my hands and got out of there. I did recognize my husband at a urinal, which gave me internal giggles.

But I'd use it again if I needed to. I'm old and I've seen it all.

[LisaL]

18. So where do people take their children in the set up you describe?

Has the world gone mad?

[Croney]

19. There were no children. I believe the production was 14+.

But that's a good question. I guess a parent takes the kid in like any other bathroom. Kids get used to things fast. And civility is really the main expectation.

[LisaL]

20. 14 year old girl is still a child.

If a guy exposed himself in a park to a 14 year old, he'd be looking at some jail time. As for kids getting used to things like that-I don't think this is one of the things kid should be asked to get used to.

[Croney]

23. The audience for this play was gray-haired and white-haired.

No 14-year-old would be caught dead at a matinee called MacBeth in Stride on a Saturday afternoon. Lol

The danger of a guy exposing himself in such a venue would be laughable except that some old geezer might accidentally be unzipped but who's looking? Not me!

[Lars39]

72. Except the play and audience will change, but the venue stays the same.

[Croney]

73. Yes! Take a look.

Anti-racism, diversity, and inclusion seem of top importance when they describe themselves.

https://americanrepertorytheater.org/about-us/

[pnwmom]

79. Harvey Weinstein is a gray haired, wealthy 69 year old. Does that make him innocent?

Or how about Jeffrey Epstein. He was white haired and 66, and quite wealthy. Was he innocent, too?

[janterry]

26. yes

it has

[Oneironaut]

34. FYI- As someone who was using one and went to the other,

I’ve found both to be remarkably unremarkable. I (do not) enjoy using public bathrooms as much as you do - especially if they’re dirty or not maintained.

Trans women like myself have been using the public bathroom matching our gender identity for a very long time. Why is it suddenly unsafe to use a public bathroom? There are still unwritten rules about bathroom use that I follow as well - e.g. I only started using them when I started presenting as a woman and passing.

PS - Reddit is a dumb place and not representative of the general public. I’ve seen completely ridiculous opinions there that don’t really deserve to be respected.

Also - FYI - I do not want gender neutral public bathrooms, considering that I would not want to be alone in a bathroom with a male stranger I don’t know.

I think we need to give the culture time to boomerang back to a reasonable middle ground that can be inclusive of trans people and also not go to ridiculous extremes that put women in danger.

[LisaL]

36. Exactly.

NT

[Doodley]

45. Agree. This isn't a good solution.

[MichMan]

13. Was this a newly built venue with only one ?

Or did it previously have separate facilities that were either combined & enlarged, or was one of them closed ?

[Croney]

15. An old venue, the Loeb Drama Center.

Last edited Sun Nov 14, 2021, 08:06 AM - Edit history (2)

Two identical large bathrooms, so I'm sure they were "women" and "men" when I was there before, which was 5 years ago. Both bathrooms are labeled All Gender. Implementing inclusivity.

https://americanrepertorytheater.org/venue/loeb-drama-center/

[LisaL]

17. So a woman has to go by men using urinals

at the sake of inclusivity? Thanks but no thanks. And if parents bring children to a play, WTF are the children supposed to go?

[Croney]

21. Yes.

The more I think about it, the less odd it seems.

I didn't see any penises. Nobody saw my privates. It was ok.

[LisaL]

22. When I got my vaccine shot, they were at first doing it out in the open area.

Then some people objected to that (and that only involved showing a shoulder). So they had to change this set up and do it in a more private area. Again, that only involved a naked shoulder. Not naked behind. So, thanks but no thanks.
I don't think it would fly here.

[Croney]

24. No naked behinds. There are stalls for that.

Men at urinals don't drop their pants.

I think the vaccine privacy is for the patient's possible reaction, not the exposed shoulder. I didn't want anybody to see my scrunched-up grimace as I braced for the jab that didn't even hurt.

[LisaL]

25. Regardless of the motivation for complaints, people wanted privacy when doing something

that they believed should be private. I didn't mind the open area for vaccination. But obviously some people did. The set up you describe, I would mind.

[janterry]

27. You felt fine because your husband was there

and the environment felt safe. There were many people and it felt busy and 'upscale-ish'.

What if it were mostly empty and you were at a truck stop?

[Croney]

28. My husband being there was just amusing.

I go where I want, alone or not. Actually, I'm more likely to be his defender than the other way around but that's a different story. It's kind of sexist to assume I need a man. Lol

If I had to pee at a truck stop, I'd hope the business had a safe bathroom. That's all we can hope for on the road.

[janterry]

31. take a look around the internet and see what is happening

Most women lack the physical strength of men. That's why they are the overwhelming victims of sexual violence.

Glad you don't have that problem. Most other women do.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Do you really think a gender sign will keep out a man intending to rape?

Oops. Guess I'll just have to find another place to find a victim, since I can't possibly enter a room designated for women.

And, in case it matters, I'm a woman who has been raped. Man rape women (and find victims) anywhere there are women, whether the space is welcoming to men or not. Making bathrooms inclusive spaces for trans individuals is not going to change that.

[janterry]

48. No of course not

but boundaries are important and they work. Otherwise, we are left with Wi Spa (is that just some oops? to you? there were young children there).

No one believed the women. No one. Not one person at the SPA. In the press they were vilified. The ONLY reason the story is even known is that the women stood by their story and MONTHS later the police identified him. Had he no history of being a sexual predator? The story would have been buried and the women maligned.

That is an outrage.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Offenders come in all genders.

That person offended because they were a sexual offender, not because they were in women only space. A cis woman could just as easily have offended in that same space - as the three women in the first two stories below did.

https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/9678457.woman-sexually-assaults-another-woman-in-club-toilets/

There are far more reports of trans women (and masculine cis women) being harassed and brutally assaulted because they were perceived as too masculine to be in the women's room and too feminine to be in the men's room.

"I was going to the bathroom to check hair and makeup and there were two females in the bathroom," she told the police dispatcher. "I thought they were two drunk people just being friendly."

She said the women started commenting on her genitals. One of the two women also revealed her own breasts, according to the call to police.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683711899/two-woman-charged-in-alleged-attack-on-trans-woman-in-north-carolina-bar

Almost 60 percent of transgender Americans have avoided using public restrooms for fear of confrontation, saying they have been harassed and assaulted, according to the largest survey taken of transgender people in the United States.

It found that 12 percent of transgender people were verbally harassed in public restrooms within the previous year, 1 percent were physically attacked and 1 percent were sexually assaulted. Nine percent said someone denied them access to a bathroom.

Thirty-two percent of transgender people said they limited the amount they ate or drank at least once in the previous year so they did not need to use a public restroom. Eight percent reported having a kidney or urinary tract infection, or another kidney-related medical issue, because they avoided restrooms.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-survey/u-s-transgender-people-harassed-in-public-restrooms-landmark-survey-idUSKBN13X0BK

[pnwmom]

82. If there is a gender sign that says "women" and women see a man going in there,

they can wait till he comes out.

[Fla Dem]

29. Nope, not for me!

[Ms. Toad]

30. Didn't anyone here have all gender bathrooms in college?

Last edited Sun Nov 14, 2021, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Not sure why this is such a big deal. I had all gender bathrooms in college in the 70s (including showers, which had a sign to flip to indicate the gender of the current occupant).

If you don't want to walk post people using a urinal, take a quick peek and see if there are urinals. - and choose the other bathroom. If you want privacy, even if you are designed to use a urinal, wait for a stall. Newly constructed bathrooms will likely be constructed to provide more privacy for urinal use.

And for those of you condemning this "effort at inclusion" based on your discomfort, imagine you are a trans man or woman and have been forced to use a single gender bathroom that doesn't match your gender for most of your life.

[Croney]

32. Finally. Thank you.

[LisaL]

35. Nope, never used "all gender bathrooms."

Never even heard of such a thing. And if God is willing, will never have to use it.

[pnwmom]

81. We had all private stalls at my college -- no urinals. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

83. At our school,

It depended on whether the dorm was originally male or female. Those that were designed as mens' dorms had urinals & private stalls. Those designed as womens' only had private stalls.

Since halls were mixed gender, to avoid the inequity of forcing one gender to run up a flight or down a flight to use the bathroom/shower, all bathrooms wer made all gender.

[KentuckyWoman]

41. I'll pass.

While I'm glad they exist, I'd prefer a ladies room or the one holer unisex. If it was all stalls I would feel differently. It would be no different than the row of toilets at the fair. Yes I have enough sense to avert my eyes and give him his privacy at the urinal but it still gives me the willies.

[Doodley]

44. As a man, I can see this is unacceptable for women to be walking past men with their dicks out.

[Croney]

50. No dicks are visible. All dicks are assumed to be doing their business.

There are partitions between the urinals, and only the backs of men are visible. It's not a pick-up place. Maybe as a man, you'd feel uncomfortable knowing women are in the same room as you pee. I agree it's a novel idea.

[LisaL]

52. "Novel" doesn't mean good.

NT

[Doodley]

57. So the concerns of women (some expressed on this thread) don't matter?

[Croney]

59. While the women using this bathroom surely entered by their own free will,

we can assume that others might have chosen to just hold it till they got home.

[Doodley]

60. Ridiculous.

[LisaL]

63. And next time they will choose not to go to that theater.

You are not going to enjoy the play if you have to "hold it."

[3catwoman3]

47. "...gives me the willies."

Not sure if you meant this play on words or not, but it's very funny.

[KentuckyWoman]

74. Oh my

Not intentional but yes I sure did get a good one that time.

[3catwoman3]

75. If DUzys (DUzies?) we're still being...

…given, this would surely get one.

Pinboy3niner would have liked it, I think.

[Doodley]

46. Suppose there is one man in the whole restroom at the urinal and one woman enters the room.

I'm a man, but I can see how that could be intimidating/scary for the woman. My wife has just concurred.

[Croney]

51. Good grief. It's not a truck stop. It's an expensive theater venue

where you had to show your vaccination card to get in, all people were masked, most patrons were over 60, and it was a matinee, and the bathroom was crowded. Oh, and it was a play about women's empowerment as seen through the eyes of Lady MacBeth.

I doubt your wife would have felt intimidated in that circus atmosphere, but there's always a chance some guy will try to pee in the sink (see posts above).

[LisaL]

53. An expensive theater venue could have presumably afforded to

make bathroom stalls with floor to ceiling doors if they wanted to have all gender inclusive bathrooms, and not have open urinals in the all gender inclusive space.

[Croney]

54. It was mahvelous to get out to see a play,

and support live theater. My husband says he saw a play there in the 80's, and the cast was naked! Ah the old Harvard hippie days. 🙂

[Doodley]

58. My thoughts exactly. I am disgusted by the whole thing. It is yet more lowering of standards.

[tanyev]

76. I gave up watching Ally McBeal because of all the scenes in the unisex bathroom.

Just…uncomfortable.

[pnwmom]

78. Rich men have been known to attack women, and not every play there will be about women's empowerment

[Elessar Zappa]

56. Some women don't like trans-women

using the same bathroom as them, especially if the trans-woman hasn’t transitioned. Too bad, get used to it.

[LisaL]

62. Do you think trans-women will be comfortable using the same bathroom as men?

NT

[Elessar Zappa]

65. Possibly.

I’m just saying that comfort alone can’t be the basis of the arguments or you get into slippery territory.

[LisaL]

66. So lets make everybody uncomfortable? That's a a solution?

NT

[Elessar Zappa]

68. Didn't say that but

Anti-trans bigots often use the “comfort” argument as a way to try and keep trans-women out of women’s bathrooms.

[Croney]

64. I think cisgendered people, like me, need to get over

the innate assumption that our rights take precedent over the rights of others. I see an analogy to race. My whiteness was a privilege I didn't realize I had, until I learned that it was.

When the majority feels threatened, it claims oppression. Having to use a bathroom full of people whose gender is unknown to you should not make you feel oppressed.

[LisaL]

67. How is the gender unknown if it's all out in the open?

NT

[Croney]

69. What is out in the open? I didn't see any name tags.

Nobody wore a sign saying Guess My Gender! It was a bunch of ordinary people. Nobody seemed uncomfortable. Maybe Cambridge folks are just super-enlightened. 😉

[LisaL]

70. I would say Cambridge folks are super enlightened because it wouldn't fly here.

NT

[RobinA]

77. I Thought

we weren’t supposed to tell people when they « should » feel oppressed.

[pnwmom]

80. I wouldn't feel comfortable sending a 12 year old girl into a bathroom with urinals

where there's no way to know who else is inside the restroom.

Would I want her to be alone in a public restroom with only men? No. Most females would be very uncomfortable in that situation, and unfortunately, they should be.

[Croney]

84. I wasn't going to comment further on this thread, but...

If you read all the posts, you will see that this was an adult event, no 12-year-olds were in the building. Nobody is advocating for children sharing bathrooms with adults of all genders. That straw man can be put to rest.

I was not uncomfortable, and I didn't see women looking uncomfortable. People were just using the bathroom. And washing their hands. And walking out.

I get it, some people don't like the idea. I still find it a bit puzzling. But I'm not against it under certain circumstances, like the ones here. We all have our personal views and we can differ.

[pnwmom]

85. Are girls or teens never in the restroom? Never in any similar restrooms in other locales?

This isn't a straw man. It's an actual question.

As to your observation that you didn't see any women looking uncomfortable, some people are more adept at hiding their feelings than others.

[Croney]

86. Similar restrooms in other locales? Who knows!

After a year of Covid lockdown, all kinds of innovations could have been put in place without me knowing, lol. Maybe this is the only bathroom of its kind!? This is not a theater that puts on The Nutcracker at Christmas.

I was not uncomfortable. I would use the bathroom again. We probably won't go back for a year, though, and there could be a whole new scenario. If I need to pee, I'll use the bathroom.