Arab ambassadors speak at the United Nations following Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza

[Uncle Joe]

United Nations ambassadors from Arab countries, including Palestinian envoy Riyad Mansour, are speaking about the hospital attack at UN headquarters in New York

Al Jazeera is funded in whole or in part by the Qatari government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera

[chia]

1. Isn't there info out there now showing it wasn't Israel, but a failed rocket from Gaza?

[mymomwasright]

2. yes

[JohnSJ]

5. In a way. They need to get a neutral party out there to determine it. Israel has released videos

of a misfired rocket, and indicated they intercepted a conversation between Hamas and Islamic Jihad talking about a misfired rocket.

They also said their operations were not in that area.

As I said the only way to determine the facts is to get a neutral party to investigate the facts.

[Big Blue Marble]

9. Only if you call denials from the IDF, information. N/T

[wnylib]

12. Because the denials from Hamas are more trustworthy?

Both sides deny hitting the hospital.

No neutral party has been able to establish the facts yet.

Therefore, the title of the OP is disinformation.

[Big Blue Marble]

16. Neither side is trustworthy.

I did not post the OP. Take it up with the OP if you do not like the title.

[wnylib]

17. My mention of the OP title was not meant to be a criticism of you specifically.

It was meant to point out that its claim of Israel being responsible should not be taken at face value.

Saying that both sides are untrustworthy reminds me of people who retreat from political discussions by saying all politicians are crooked. It avoids seeking the truth.

One side or the other is responsible. Israel says that It has evidence that Hamas is responsible and will release that evidence. When they do, the next step will be to evaluate whether it is valid evidence.

There was a Hamas weapons dump next to the hospital, which amplified the explosion from the strike. It is possible that Israel targeted the dump. It is equally possible that a failed Hamas launch hit the hospital, or that Hamas targeted the hospital knowing that the dump was there in order to claim that an Israeli strike hit the hospital. Horrible as it sounds, Hamas is capable of doing that to gain world support and condemnation of Israel. They use human shields. They commited ruthless torture and murder of babies, children, women, and elderly people. Killing their own civilians for international influence is not beneath them. If so, it seems to be working for Hamas, with outraged Palestinian supporters demonstrating around the world over this tonight.

We need to see what evidence Israel produces.

[Big Blue Marble]

18. This is not politics, this is war.

Disinformation is a major weapon of war. Did you trust the Pentagon during the Iraq War?
I did not.

You suggest a narrative for blaming Hamas. Actually, Israel is blaming Palestinian Jihad not Hamas.

There is a counter narrative that would suggest that Israel caused this catastrophe. There are
multiple witnesses that recorded the sounds of the incoming missiles from fighter jets.
These missiles apparently have a signature sound. That will be have to be analyzed as well
as eye witness accounts as well as fragments of the weapons. I think that the degree of damage
will be the most telling.

And from CNN:

While Israel says "IDF does not target hospitals,” the United Nations and Doctors Without
Borders say during the past 10 days, Israeli airstrikes have struck medical facilities, I
ncluding hospitals and ambulances.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-17-23/h_4bc7254975df24223a9d77d7c7bba219

I think it is best to wait. As I said neither side has credibility.

[JohnSJ]

3. The Qatari government which houses the leaders of Hamas.

Israel denies they caused the Hospital blast, and blames a Hamas/Islamic Jihad rocket misfire.

"The Foreign Ministry says firmly that “the IDF did not conduct any operations in the area at the time of impact.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-publishes-video-it-says-proves-failed-rocket-launch-caused-gaza-hospital-blast/

Israel also says they will be releasing an intercepted conversation between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad which acknowledges a rocket misfire.

Whatever the case, Hamas or the Islamic Jihad will never admit if they are responsible, and use it as a tool to incite chaos.

It would be nice if a neutral party of experts could safely get into there to determine the blast's signature, but unlikely that will happen.

[Uncle Joe]

4. They're calling for a ceasefire. n/t

[Lovie777]

6. Who calling for ceasefire?........................

while Hamas is rocketing Israel..........

[Uncle Joe]

8. The ceasefire would have to be for both sides. n/t

[JohnSJ]

7. That is good, but they are also assigning blame, when it has NOT been determined.

Also, will Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah honor a ceasefire?

Hamas has hostages, how does that play into this deadly game?

[Uncle Joe]

10. I believe they will and Hamas has stated in the video on this thread that they would release

the hostages if the bombing stops.

Of course this all has to be part of the ceasefire.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017872050

[JohnSJ]

11. Obviously we will see, because I suspect President Biden will try to facilitate something to that

effect.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I agree,

I also believe that Netanyahu believes that as well.

[JohnSJ]

14. When this situation has finally quieted down, Netanyahu will not be head of the government.

[LuvLoogie]

19. I'd say there's about an 85% he will remain.

It seems Israelis prefer his policies and tactics. How else could he have survived his corruption charges.

[JohnSJ]

20. The polls sure don't indicate that, and as for your supposition how could he have survived with the

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

corruption charges, they have a parliamentary system, and each time the elections were very close.

This last event where Hamas broke through security to target and kill over a 1000 civilians, and take hostages, is the end of his political career

[LuvLoogie]

22. It will probably be a few years before this settles down to the point where Gazans are housed again.

I don't see how you eradicate Hamas without going scorched Earth. If reports are true, Netanyahu never went after Hamas as he should have because he wanted to play them off of the Palestinian Authority as a ploy to avoid a two-state remedy. Israelis were aware of this.

You have to ask - is Netanyahu's decline in Israeli support due to this security failure? If so, is it despite the tactics they supported? Or is it because of the tactics they no longer support.

Israelis choose their leaders. If not Netanyahu, then who? In support of what policies?

[JohnSJ]

23. I don't think they will be able to eradicate Hamas. I think they will be able to neutralize them in

the same way AQ was.

The biggest concern most should have is that this becomes a regional war, or even beyond that.

[wnylib]

15. No, Hamas did not say that they will release the hostages if there is a ceasefire.

Hamas said it would release the non Israelis among the hostages if there is a ceasefire. That means citizens of other countries caught up in the Hamas terrorist attack on Israeli civilians, possibly also people with dual citizenship.

Hamas referred to them as civilians. Hamas is not releasing captured Israeli soldiers. They have not yet said whether they will release Israeli civilians.

Hamas could get a ceasefire by releasing all of the hostages.

[Elessar Zappa]

21. It's not at all clear that it was an Israeli strike.