'Arrogance' & 'Bullshit:' Top Insiders on Netanyahu's Catastrophic Oct. 7 and Gaza War

[Uncle Joe]

Ex-PM and former Mossad chief among security officials telling The Daily Beast how Netanyahu’s struggle rule led to the greatest disaster in Israel’s history—and carnage in Gaza.

(snip)

“Should we take from this that we need to change reality,” he asks, believing that continuing to deny Palestinians their basic rights will only lead to more bloodshed. “Or should we learn from this that [we’ve] shown too little force and [we] should crush them with greater might, so that they’ll be even more afraid of us?”

Pardo spent his career clandestinely and ruthlessly targeting those deemed a threat to Israel, but from that fight, he learned a lesson that eludes most Israelis. Force alone cannot protect it. “You’ll never be able to quash the aspiration for liberty,” he says.

As part of a months-long investigation into the causes of Israel’s greatest intelligence and security failure, and how it continues to shape its war in Gaza, The Daily Beast spoke with a former Israeli prime minister, a serving senior Israeli military official, a former Mossad chief, two former national security advisers and a former senior officer with the Israel Security Agency, Shin Bet. They describe a culture of arrogance toward Palestinians in the security and political establishment.

Israel’s leaders were confident their military prowess and vast technological superiority could keep at bay the dire consequences of the reality they imposed over decades of continued expansion on Palestinian land. Throughout Netanyahu’s tenure, segregation and expansion have been treated as the permanent political solution.

(snip)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/arrogance-and-bullsht-top-insiders-turn-on-benjamin-netanyahu

[Lonestarblue]

1. Netanyahu has done Israel no favors.

The reason Hamas exists is to fight to free Palestinians from Israel’s tyranny. I know some here will quickly excuse Israel because Hamas says their goal is to eliminate Israel. They have never and will never have the capability of doing this. They are no threat to Israel’s existence. But Hamas or a group like it will exist to fight Israel until Israelis acknowledge that Palestinians have as much right to their own state as Israelis have to theirs.

[Mosby]

4. The Palestinians refuse to negotiate a permanent settlement.

Your just making excuses. HAMAS exists because the Palestinians want to eliminate Israel and replace it with a Muslim country. They don't want to negotiate, they want it all, and they have a lot of support in the West.

[Lonestarblue]

6. Hamas has very little support in the West.

All Palestinians are not Hamas. Israel estimated at the beginning of this war that Hamas fighters numbered around 30,000. Israel claims to gave killed 15,000. There is no way that the Hamas Fighter Brigade has any power to eliminate Israel, nor would the West allow them to do so. Hamas talks a big game but has no real power. They are funded by Iran more as an annoyance for Israel and the West rather than an intent yo start a regional war.

Over the decades of conflict, both sides have made mistakes and stupid decisions. But it is Netanyahu who encouraged Hamas to keep the government of Gaza separated from the West Bank and unable to form a state. It is Netanyahu who has encouraged right-wing Israeli settlers to murder Palestinians in the West Bank to illegally take their lands. It is Netanyahu who has encouraged the hard right and abandoned the centrists and progressives in Israel. And now he is creating hatred for Israel around the world because of his disproportionate killing of innocent Palestinians. I do not excuse the Hamas fighters, but nor do I excuse Netanyahu for trying to turn Israel into the equivalent of a MAGA nation.

[Mosby]

8. Netanyahu didn't do the things you claim

...Netanyahu who encouraged Hamas to keep the government of Gaza separated from the West Bank and unable to form a state...

Netanyahu doesn't have any direct contact with Hamas, so he couldn't have "encouraged" them to do anything. What he did do was allow money transfers from Qatar to reach Gaza.

The Palestinians can't unilaterally form a state, regardless whether Hamas and Fatah reconcile. They are required, just like Israel, to negotiate a permanent agreement per security council resolution 242.

I disapprove of Netanyahu and think he needs to resign but you're turning him into some sort of evil mafia boss ordering hits, and stealing property. The only people ordering hits and stealing are Hamas leaders, that's why they're billionaires living the life in the Persian gulf.

[LuvLoogie]

2. Until the Israelis cut Netanyahu loose and

show him the door, Israel will continue to devolve.

Ousting Netanyahu is the first step. Electing a government that supports the ending of the settlements, prosecution of settler, police and IDF crime, and the rebuilding of Gaza, are next steps.

Hopeful, egalitarian-minded people don't move to the West Bank. Entitled, fascistic people do.

Not enough Israelis think Palestinians deserve any justice or a home in their own land.

[Mosby]

3. Paywall.

[Uncle Joe]

7. I don't recall ever running in to a paywall on the Daily Beast? However here is some more of the article.

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2024, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Fifty miles up the coast from Gaza, where an Israeli offensive continues to shatter the besieged strip, Israel’s former chief spy Tamir Pardo is a world away from the war without end, in his office in Israel’s tech hub in the manicured city of Herzliya. From 2011 to 2016 Pardo was the director of Israel’s foreign intelligence agency, Mossad. He says the seeds that led to this moment of dread were sown over the previous two decades.

The bloody, unprecedented attack on Oct. 7, 2023, sparked widespread Israeli anger at a government that promised them perpetual calm in lieu of peace.

The worst security failure since the country was founded showed up the limits of militarized segregation, which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu championed as a low-cost way to dominate Palestinians. After years of relative calm and a booming economy, that lie was brutally exposed on Oct. 7.

(snip)

At 71 years old, Pardo feels the country is less secure and—unable to make tough choices about its future or willing to address its most pressing problem—has less vision than when he joined Mossad in 1980. He believes Israel’s future depends on addressing the question of Palestinian rights—a question that was rarely asked and was left unanswered in the calm before the war.

(snip)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/arrogance-and-bullsht-top-insiders-turn-on-benjamin-netanyahu

[Mosby]

5. Bullshit article.

Regardless who is the prime minister, Israel has every right to defend themselves.

What's your excuse for Hezbollah, why are they firing thousands of rockets into Israel?

[Dave Bowman]

9. KnR, good article.

[malaise]

10. Oh My

Will be reading responses from DUerstganks Uncle Joe