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BumRushDaShow

(145,570 posts)
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 07:24 AM 13 hrs ago

Biden pardons Fauci and Milley in an effort to guard against potential 'revenge' by Trump

Source: AP

Updated 7:22 AM EST, January 20, 2025


WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Joe Biden has pardoned Dr. Anthony Fauci, retired Gen. Mark Milley and members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, using the extraordinary powers of his office in his final hours to guard against potential "revenge" by the incoming Trump administration.

The decision by Biden comes after Donald Trump warned of an enemies list filled with those who have crossed him politically or sought to hold him accountable for his attempt to overturn his 2020 election loss and his role in the storming of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. Trump has selected Cabinet nominees who backed his election lies and who have pledged to punish those involved in efforts to investigate him.

"The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense," Biden said in a statement. "Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country."

It's customary for a president to grant clemency at the end of his term, but those acts of mercy are usually offered to everyday Americans who have been convicted of crimes. But Biden has used the power in the broadest and most untested way possible: to pardon those who have not even been investigated yet. And with the acceptance comes a tacit admission of guilt or wrongdoing, even though those who have been pardoned have not been formally accused of any crimes.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/biden-trump-fauci-milley-pardons-january-6-3cba287f89051513fb48d7ae700ae747



White House STATEMENT - Statement from President Joe Biden

The White House

January 20, 2025

Statement from President Joe Biden


Home Briefing Room Statements and Releases


Our nation relies on dedicated, selfless public servants every day. They are the lifeblood of our democracy.

Yet alarmingly, public servants have been subjected to ongoing threats and intimidation for faithfully discharging their duties.

In certain cases, some have even been threatened with criminal prosecutions, including General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, and the members and staff of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol. These public servants have served our nation with honor and distinction and do not deserve to be the targets of unjustified and politically motivated prosecutions.

General Milley served our nation for more than 40 years, serving in multiple command and leadership posts and deploying to some of the most dangerous parts of the world to protect and defend democracy. As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he guided our Armed Forces through complex global security threats and strengthened our existing alliances while forging new ones.

For more than half a century, Dr. Fauci served our country. He saved countless lives by managing the government’s response to pressing health crises, including HIV/AIDS, as well as the Ebola and Zika viruses. During his tenure as my Chief Medical Advisor, he helped the country tackle a once-in-a-century pandemic. The United States is safer and healthier because of him.

On January 6, 2021, American democracy was tested when a mob of insurrectionists attacked the Capitol in an attempt to overturn a fair and free election by force and violence. In light of the significance of that day, Congress established the bipartisan Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol to investigate and report upon the facts, circumstances, and causes of the insurrection. The Select Committee fulfilled this mission with integrity and a commitment to discovering the truth. Rather than accept accountability, those who perpetrated the January 6th attack have taken every opportunity to undermine and intimidate those who participated in the Select Committee in an attempt to rewrite history, erase the stain of January 6th for partisan gain, and seek revenge, including by threatening criminal prosecutions.

I believe in the rule of law, and I am optimistic that the strength of our legal institutions will ultimately prevail over politics. But these are exceptional circumstances, and I cannot in good conscience do nothing. Baseless and politically motivated investigations wreak havoc on the lives, safety, and financial security of targeted individuals and their families. Even when individuals have done nothing wrong—and in fact have done the right thing—and will ultimately be exonerated, the mere fact of being investigated or prosecuted can irreparably damage reputations and finances.

That is why I am exercising my authority under the Constitution to pardon General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the Select Committee. The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense. Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.

###
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Biden pardons Fauci and Milley in an effort to guard against potential 'revenge' by Trump (Original Post) BumRushDaShow 13 hrs ago OP
Good... Mike Nelson 13 hrs ago #1
We're in it now. Joinfortmill 13 hrs ago #20
In all honesty DENVERPOPS 7 hrs ago #120
Unfortunately, he didn't pardon Leonard Peltier. 3Hotdogs 13 hrs ago #2
He commuted Peltier's life sentence. ananda 8 hrs ago #105
Yes. Posted on DU, about an hour after my post. 3Hotdogs 6 hrs ago #126
This message was self-deleted by its author C0RI0LANUS 13 hrs ago #3
Good! whathehell 13 hrs ago #4
I was hoping he would do these pardons. FloridaBlues 13 hrs ago #5
Post removed Post removed 13 hrs ago #6
Read the statement from President Biden. Katinfl 13 hrs ago #7
If there's no even hint that there was a crime committed, then what are they being pardoned for? Seeking Serenity 13 hrs ago #10
It's not "new" ground. Nixon was given a preemptive pardon for the "good of the country". Lochloosa 13 hrs ago #17
And Nixon lead to the 1973 OLC presidential immunity memo... CaptainTruth 10 hrs ago #95
Because the incoming regime has made it clear they will manufacture criminal charges against these people. tanyev 12 hrs ago #27
Pardoning people who are under threat of legal action even though they have done nothing wrong... thesquanderer 11 hrs ago #56
IN THIS ENVIRONMENT the answer is yes Raven123 11 hrs ago #62
Yes you do when you have a sociopath who has threatened revenge against those he views as "enemies". JohnSJ 11 hrs ago #71
Those are BS questions, and you should delete them. Try reading the article to get your answer. Lochloosa 13 hrs ago #9
I did. And i won't because the questions are still relevant, that statement notwithstanding Seeking Serenity 13 hrs ago #13
Read it how you want then. I'm done. Lochloosa 13 hrs ago #16
Thank-you. JohnSJ 11 hrs ago #72
Since the "modern" media has decided to allow the re-writing of government functioning BumRushDaShow 13 hrs ago #11
Ok. Wheee. Let's chuck all the toys out and enter that brave new world. Seeking Serenity 13 hrs ago #15
Not necessarily BumRushDaShow 12 hrs ago #30
Ok, let's do that. sop 11 hrs ago #57
"Us"? You're part of the Biden administration, then? muriel_volestrangler 11 hrs ago #74
No. He's saving them. Walk in their shoes for a moment Joinfortmill 13 hrs ago #21
no, its necessary because of the sick fuck coming in to persecute them/rewrite history. Blues Heron 12 hrs ago #32
"So...." Usually means bullshit is to follow Hassin Bin Sober 12 hrs ago #33
but try RegexReader 7 hrs ago #117
Critical thinking skills will be necessary to comprehend this decision. FarPoint 12 hrs ago #55
I'm glad he did COL Mustard 13 hrs ago #8
From the article. Lochloosa 13 hrs ago #12
I hope Lieutenant Byrd is on the list. Otherwise he'll be up on murder charges in 30 days. Hassin Bin Sober 11 hrs ago #58
They are part of beyondtimes 13 hrs ago #14
They were included BumRushDaShow 12 hrs ago #25
But what about others who testified against him? Cassidy Hutchinson, Alexander Vindman... thesquanderer 8 hrs ago #106
There were A LOT of people who testified BumRushDaShow 7 hrs ago #118
We're in it now. Be Brave. Resist. Change the channel today. Joinfortmill 13 hrs ago #18
Sickening Topomi 13 hrs ago #19
I don't disagree, but the pardons will provide a basis for GOP propaganda that they did something wrong. surfered 13 hrs ago #22
And it provides a precedent for... WestMichRad 12 hrs ago #26
Sadly, yes. Strange times surfered 12 hrs ago #29
As if "precedent" matters one-flying-eff to Donnie Dipshit and the MAGAts maxrandb 12 hrs ago #46
They would do it anyway MadameButterfly 10 hrs ago #83
Sad when you have to pardon people who have done nothing wrong Ohioboy 12 hrs ago #28
The Magas have already said multiple times that these people have broken the law! Hope22 12 hrs ago #36
They are doing that anyway. These people are not mentally well. travelingthrulife 10 hrs ago #82
And? Republicans lie about everything. They constantly take stuff out of context and engage in emulatorloo 10 hrs ago #86
Thank you President Biden! DownriverDem 13 hrs ago #23
Fuck this shit. I'm done. Seeking Serenity 13 hrs ago #24
Promise? (nt) Paladin 12 hrs ago #43
Congrats! You've just earned a spot on my "ignore" list FakeNoose 6 hrs ago #127
SCOTUS immunity was essentially a pardon of Trump. What's sauce for the goose .... /nt bucolic_frolic 12 hrs ago #31
What's good is bad, what's bad is good. We are in the upside down now. tetedur 12 hrs ago #34
We do lose some of the high ground on this HereForTheParty 12 hrs ago #35
Do we? Have they? Hope22 12 hrs ago #40
Post removed Post removed 12 hrs ago #49
Good luck out here.... Hope22 12 hrs ago #52
If so then so be it. Rainman4u2C 11 hrs ago #59
Only one word was true in your post. The rest were lies and distortions Bernardo de La Paz 11 hrs ago #65
? Rainman4u2C 11 hrs ago #68
Cases not comparable. As to memory Hur lied and distorted about that Bernardo de La Paz 11 hrs ago #70
Which is why that post was removed MadameButterfly 10 hrs ago #88
President Biden did not have a garage full of documents. Hope22 11 hrs ago #61
I was not aware that pence has a poor memory. niyad 11 hrs ago #63
Our obviously-fucked-up multi-tiered justice system? The opus dei/federalist niyad 11 hrs ago #67
Why should they have to endure that when there is zero evidence of wrongdoing? travelingthrulife 10 hrs ago #85
It is up to every DEM to use this as a conversation starter Bluetus 10 hrs ago #87
I don't know the extent of the pardons, but I fear not enough MadameButterfly 10 hrs ago #90
It was fairly broad, but I would have preferred something more expansive Bluetus 8 hrs ago #114
I agree. But grateful that people who testified are included MadameButterfly 6 hrs ago #124
We're mirroring what they did HereForTheParty 10 hrs ago #91
I categorically reject the Michelle Obama doctrine Bluetus 8 hrs ago #113
Sorry rawhideal 12 hrs ago #37
Shameful spin from the AP. Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #38
Reminder to never pardon the press........ Hope22 12 hrs ago #41
Those aren't contradictory statements SCantiGOP 11 hrs ago #81
Um yes they are. Wiz Imp 10 hrs ago #93
When we're at the point where something like this is needed, then... JHB 12 hrs ago #39
Justice Can't Do It Because The Power Of The Pardon Is Absolute, But Congress DallasNE 9 hrs ago #98
Rules are only as effective as their enforecment. JHB 1 hr ago #128
Thank you President Biden. riversedge 12 hrs ago #42
Profound thanks, Mr. President. (nt) Paladin 12 hrs ago #44
Dr Fauci rawhideal 12 hrs ago #45
I wonder if we could pay aqua buddha's neighbor. . . niyad 11 hrs ago #64
Kick dalton99a 12 hrs ago #47
I hope this news makes Trump stroke out Diamond_Dog 12 hrs ago #48
While GEN Milley will be protected from criminal charges, including recall to active duty for a Court Martial, he may 24601 12 hrs ago #50
The Republicans have been trying to break the government since Reagan. They've finally succeeded. jalan48 12 hrs ago #51
Since Nixon. That's when the idea of Faux propaganda network was born travelingthrulife 10 hrs ago #89
I'm Confused On What Crimes Have Been Committed DallasNE 12 hrs ago #53
What crime(s) was/were Nixon convicted for when Ford pardoned him? BumRushDaShow 12 hrs ago #54
Yes, But Nixon Crime Was Obvious DallasNE 10 hrs ago #94
It is pre-emptive to any sham charge the Trump regime comes up with. 33taw 11 hrs ago #73
The Point Is DallasNE 10 hrs ago #96
I understand. Biden did the right thing. 33taw 8 hrs ago #107
Really. Perhaps you are not aware of those judges appointed by trump who are ruling against Mifepristone, or JohnSJ 11 hrs ago #75
Good. I'm fine with it. This ain't politics as usual! The horse has already left the barn. tulipsandroses 11 hrs ago #60
good on joe, his last offical act. but i have woken up in a bad dream for the next 4 years .:( AllaN01Bear 11 hrs ago #66
Doubt this happened in a vacuum- Trump admin likely given a wink and heads up AkFemDem 11 hrs ago #69
And it's going to get ugly. fshrink 11 hrs ago #76
If you are NOT on Trump's hit list... Jit423 11 hrs ago #77
A big glorious 🖕 underpants 11 hrs ago #78
I do not fault Biden nor the people Biden pardoned Jarqui 11 hrs ago #79
We all seem to be assuming that Trump will honor the pardons ... SomewhereInTheMiddle 10 hrs ago #92
That makes me sick Jarqui 9 hrs ago #103
Not up to Trump to honor the pardons in the first place. LudwigPastorius 7 hrs ago #121
Should Have Pardoned Thousands of People... OhioTim 11 hrs ago #80
This. Susan Calvin 9 hrs ago #101
Love this move BeyondGeography 10 hrs ago #84
MaddowBlog-Biden issues pre-emptive pardons for potential Trump targets LetMyPeopleVote 9 hrs ago #97
My understanding is that drmeow 9 hrs ago #99
We can call these phantom pardons-- pardons for phantom crimes that never happened andym 9 hrs ago #100
Aside from what anyone thinks about these pardons, at least Bondi and Patel won't be able to create distractions. sop 9 hrs ago #102
GREAT! Figarosmom 9 hrs ago #104
I appreciate the gesture 4catsmom 8 hrs ago #108
I am so proud of Joe for doing this. totodeinhere 8 hrs ago #109
So, we have come to the point of issuing pre-emptive pardons for people who have committed no crimes. malthaussen 8 hrs ago #110
It's too bad that it has come to this. But Joe had no choice. totodeinhere 8 hrs ago #111
Does anyone really think that pardons will stop Trump from continuing... the nelm 8 hrs ago #112
nope RegexReader 7 hrs ago #116
Yeah, after Hunter though.... RegexReader 8 hrs ago #115
I notice that Joe didn't pardon Merrick Garland. LudwigPastorius 7 hrs ago #119
That ought to teach him not to drag his feet KS Toronado 7 hrs ago #123
Or Jack Smith n/t MichMan 1 hr ago #129
Absolutely horrifying that he has to do this. Dark n Stormy Knight 7 hrs ago #122
To this day it still amazes me how tsf KS Toronado 6 hrs ago #125

DENVERPOPS

(10,428 posts)
120. In all honesty
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:35 PM
7 hrs ago

The “Media” has seemed to forget, that the same day HW took office, after Reagan, he immediately pardoned over a hundred of Reagan’s administration who were actually indicted on serious charges, and who were actually truly guilty of MAJOR crimes. Some, I think, included for what were many acts of actual TREASON……

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

Seeking Serenity

(3,097 posts)
10. If there's no even hint that there was a crime committed, then what are they being pardoned for?
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:00 AM
13 hrs ago

Do we give out blanket, non-specific pardons just to prevent criminal investigation/charges or whatever?

Treading new, potentially dangerous ground here, IMO

Lochloosa

(16,468 posts)
17. It's not "new" ground. Nixon was given a preemptive pardon for the "good of the country".
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:06 AM
13 hrs ago

He was never charged with a crime.

CaptainTruth

(7,327 posts)
95. And Nixon lead to the 1973 OLC presidential immunity memo...
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:06 AM
10 hrs ago

...saying a sitting president can't be criminally prosecuted, which became DOJ policy & practice for the next 50+ years, until SCOTUS made it "official."

tanyev

(44,946 posts)
27. Because the incoming regime has made it clear they will manufacture criminal charges against these people.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:31 AM
12 hrs ago

And because the justice system can no longer be trusted to throw those charges out as the nonsense they most certainly will be.

thesquanderer

(12,420 posts)
56. Pardoning people who are under threat of legal action even though they have done nothing wrong...
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:18 AM
11 hrs ago

...is, I'd say, less questionable than pardoning people who have indeed probably acted criminally (e.g. Steve Bannon, among numerous other questionable pardons and clemencies provided by presidents in the past).

Raven123

(6,198 posts)
62. IN THIS ENVIRONMENT the answer is yes
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:36 AM
11 hrs ago

Biden is doing the only decent thing he can to protect these public servants from the abuse of power to come.

JohnSJ

(96,992 posts)
71. Yes you do when you have a sociopath who has threatened revenge against those he views as "enemies".
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:01 AM
11 hrs ago

Lochloosa

(16,468 posts)
9. Those are BS questions, and you should delete them. Try reading the article to get your answer.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:00 AM
13 hrs ago

Seeking Serenity

(3,097 posts)
13. I did. And i won't because the questions are still relevant, that statement notwithstanding
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:02 AM
13 hrs ago

Lochloosa

(16,468 posts)
16. Read it how you want then. I'm done.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:04 AM
13 hrs ago

“These are exceptional circumstances, and I cannot in good conscience do nothing,” Biden said, adding that “Even when individuals have done nothing wrong — and in fact have done the right thing — and will ultimately be exonerated, the mere fact of being investigated or prosecuted can irreparably damage reputations and finances.”

BumRushDaShow

(145,570 posts)
11. Since the "modern" media has decided to allow the re-writing of government functioning
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:01 AM
13 hrs ago

I.e., they insist

  • that "DOGE" is somehow a real Department
  • a President can shut down an agency or eliminate an entire Department at the stroke of a pen
  • a President can "declassify" classified documents with a thought


  • then a "pardon" can be anything we say it is.

    Seeking Serenity

    (3,097 posts)
    15. Ok. Wheee. Let's chuck all the toys out and enter that brave new world.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:04 AM
    13 hrs ago

    This will come back to bite us in the ass. We won't like where this heads.

    BumRushDaShow

    (145,570 posts)
    30. Not necessarily
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:35 AM
    12 hrs ago

    Sometimes one has to stand up to the bully and human nature shows that people tend to gravitate towards those who are willing to "fight" however they can.

    Continuing to "turn the other cheek" hasn't worked although we know that WE still have empathy and they have none.

    muriel_volestrangler

    (102,786 posts)
    74. "Us"? You're part of the Biden administration, then?
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:05 AM
    11 hrs ago

    Let's face it, one lesson of the past 10 years is that nothing comes back to bite a politician in the ass. Trump is a criminal, a sexual abuser, and he tried to overthrow the US government, and yet millions of idiots re-elected him. Doing a necessary move to protect innocent people from him will not bit anyone in the ass.

    Hassin Bin Sober

    (26,819 posts)
    33. "So...." Usually means bullshit is to follow
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:42 AM
    12 hrs ago

    And this post is no exception.

    Accepting a pardon is not an admission of guilt.

    RegexReader

    (424 posts)
    117. but try
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:21 PM
    7 hrs ago

    explaining that to the average person. This confirms everything that has been said about them.

    FarPoint

    (13,748 posts)
    55. Critical thinking skills will be necessary to comprehend this decision.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:16 AM
    12 hrs ago

    These fine heroes need protection from the beast.

    COL Mustard

    (7,078 posts)
    8. I'm glad he did
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 07:59 AM
    13 hrs ago

    Now, what about Cheney, Kinzinger and the rest of the January 6 investigation?

    Lochloosa

    (16,468 posts)
    12. From the article.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:01 AM
    13 hrs ago

    Biden is also extending pardons to members and staff of the Jan. 6 committee, including former Reps. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, both Republicans, as well as the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the committee.

    Hassin Bin Sober

    (26,819 posts)
    58. I hope Lieutenant Byrd is on the list. Otherwise he'll be up on murder charges in 30 days.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:25 AM
    11 hrs ago

    BumRushDaShow

    (145,570 posts)
    25. They were included
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:27 AM
    12 hrs ago

    along with the Capitol Police who testified. From the article -

    Biden is also extending pardons to members and staff of the Jan. 6 committee, including former Reps. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, both Republicans, as well as the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the committee.


    I would add a link to the pardon text but I haven't found it yet (it hadn't been uploaded to Whitehouse.gov that is about to shut down today anyway).

    thesquanderer

    (12,420 posts)
    106. But what about others who testified against him? Cassidy Hutchinson, Alexander Vindman...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:31 PM
    8 hrs ago

    Trump's enemies list is long.

    BumRushDaShow

    (145,570 posts)
    118. There were A LOT of people who testified
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:23 PM
    7 hrs ago

    including my (PA's) current Secretary of State and former (R) Philadelphia City Commissioner - Al Schmidt.


    Al Schmidt testifying in front of the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol in June 2022

    Some were there under subpoena too.

    I think he was trying to cover the Committee, their staff, and the LEO who were impacted and became surrogates in support of the Committee's work. Those LEO were actually the very first ones to testify at the Committee's inaugural hearing, a month after the Committee came into existence, after which the Committee didn't have another hearing for almost a year..

    Topomi

    (3 posts)
    19. Sickening
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:07 AM
    13 hrs ago

    Too protect people from being harassed for their government service. How much do you think lawyering up would cost? Thanks Joe.

    surfered

    (4,226 posts)
    22. I don't disagree, but the pardons will provide a basis for GOP propaganda that they did something wrong.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:09 AM
    13 hrs ago

    WestMichRad

    (1,952 posts)
    26. And it provides a precedent for...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:29 AM
    12 hrs ago

    … them (GOPers) pardoning EVERYONE in and associated with their administration who might come under investigation for malfeasance in the future.

    MadameButterfly

    (2,184 posts)
    83. They would do it anyway
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:20 AM
    10 hrs ago

    Just like the fillibuster. Which was protected only so long as Democrats needed it and now it will be removed so a Republican Senate can do as it likes.

    They don't need a precedent to wreak their havoc. They will use this, but without it they would just make something up.

    Ohioboy

    (3,549 posts)
    28. Sad when you have to pardon people who have done nothing wrong
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:31 AM
    12 hrs ago

    These pardons will be used for propaganda, no matter how well Biden worded his statement.

    Hope22

    (3,338 posts)
    36. The Magas have already said multiple times that these people have broken the law!
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:49 AM
    12 hrs ago

    It’s not a guess that they will. T already said he would!! Many more people who were just doing there jobs will be in line for prison.

    travelingthrulife

    (1,197 posts)
    82. They are doing that anyway. These people are not mentally well.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:19 AM
    10 hrs ago

    These people fought hard for us and they deserve protection from MAGA nutballs.

    emulatorloo

    (45,689 posts)
    86. And? Republicans lie about everything. They constantly take stuff out of context and engage in
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:26 AM
    10 hrs ago

    what I’ve called “willful misinterpretation.”

    tetedur

    (1,125 posts)
    34. What's good is bad, what's bad is good. We are in the upside down now.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:45 AM
    12 hrs ago

    Joe Biden did what he thought was right and necessary. That's good enough for me.

    I understand Steve Bannon called for a military tribunal for Mark Milley. This is the guy that Trump put above the law when he ripped off Trump's own loyalists who sent Bannon money to build a wall and then Bannon put their money in his own pockets.

    This is caliber of people who will be in charge of the military and the judicial system in a few hours.



    HereForTheParty

    (435 posts)
    35. We do lose some of the high ground on this
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:47 AM
    12 hrs ago

    Yes, our justice system can put people through the ringer. Even when they've done nothing wrong. But that's how we demonstrate they aren't guilty. Instead, we have Joe declaring their innocence in advance and the Trump DOJ invalid, just as Trump declared Joe's DOJ invalid.

    I don't think the J6 committee committed any crimes. The J6 insurrectionists did plenty. But we trust our justice system to sort that out.

    Hope22

    (3,338 posts)
    40. Do we? Have they?
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:55 AM
    12 hrs ago

    Why is a 33 year old going to go to jail for stealing one document and an X president driving off with a truck full of documents justified? We don’t have rule of law. We have a maniac with immunity and our national secrets have been released to ‘our enimies’!

    Response to Hope22 (Reply #40)

    Rainman4u2C

    (17 posts)
    59. If so then so be it.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:29 AM
    11 hrs ago

    If saying what's true but unpopular is frowned upon gets banishment then we are no better than the other side!

    Bernardo de La Paz

    (51,880 posts)
    65. Only one word was true in your post. The rest were lies and distortions
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:43 AM
    11 hrs ago

    And an elderly man with a poor memory former Vice President with a garage full of the same? We are all being played for fools by both sides!! There is no justice for government, only us lowly citizens and these pardons prove that.

    The only true word is "elderly". The rest are lies and distortions.

    Bernardo de La Paz

    (51,880 posts)
    70. Cases not comparable. As to memory Hur lied and distorted about that
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:01 AM
    11 hrs ago

    Biden: careless, not even semi-public area, immediate admission and cooperation.

    tRump: intentional, semi-public areas, continuous denial and obfuscation, continuous blockage and refusal to cooperate.

    NOT FUCKING COMPARABLE!



    Just stop pushing reich wing lies and distortions.

    MadameButterfly

    (2,184 posts)
    88. Which is why that post was removed
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:27 AM
    10 hrs ago

    It repeats right wing talking points and claims Republicans and Democrats are the same

    Hope22

    (3,338 posts)
    61. President Biden did not have a garage full of documents.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:35 AM
    11 hrs ago

    Presidential immunity says it all and the court gave that to your fearless leader. What are you complaining about. If you need a pardon I’m sure you can get one. The rest of the J6 clowns are ready to walk free!Fox is not your friend!

    niyad

    (121,335 posts)
    67. Our obviously-fucked-up multi-tiered justice system? The opus dei/federalist
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:49 AM
    11 hrs ago

    extreme court? aileen cannon? kaszmarack? THAT justice system? The one TRAITOR**/RAPIST/FELON34 has been using to his advantage, and to fuck everyine ekse over his entIre life? THAT justice system? The one that women have been told since the 70's would protect them, no ERA needed? THAT justice system?

    YOU may trust that system. I certainly do not.

    Bluetus

    (427 posts)
    87. It is up to every DEM to use this as a conversation starter
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:26 AM
    10 hrs ago

    Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

    This subject ALLOWS us to take the high ground. But Dems have to get out there and fight hard for the issue, rather than just hang out in their bunkers for 4 years.

    This was a NECESSARY step because of the fascism that Trump, Musk and the cabinet of billionaires are visiting upon OUR COUNTRY.

    The fact that your first impression was one of losing the engagement speaks volumes about how lousy today's Dems are at engaging in PR. THAT MUST CHANGE.

    MadameButterfly

    (2,184 posts)
    90. I don't know the extent of the pardons, but I fear not enough
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:29 AM
    10 hrs ago

    Time will justify the existing pardons and regret there were not more

    Bluetus

    (427 posts)
    114. It was fairly broad, but I would have preferred something more expansive
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:14 PM
    8 hrs ago

    It protects anybody on the Special Committee, and people who testified. But it should have included everybody on Patel's enemies list by name, because that would have given us a better starting point for making the case that this was a necessary response to the threat of unlawful persecution of innocent people.

    HereForTheParty

    (435 posts)
    91. We're mirroring what they did
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:38 AM
    10 hrs ago

    You can't put your faith into our system of justice only when the other guys are being charged. Pardoning someone because they're innocent is a really strange argument to make.

    Bluetus

    (427 posts)
    113. I categorically reject the Michelle Obama doctrine
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:10 PM
    8 hrs ago

    This is no time to bring a white paper to a machine gun fight.

    Wiz Imp

    (2,829 posts)
    38. Shameful spin from the AP.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:50 AM
    12 hrs ago

    They say:

    And with the acceptance comes a tacit admission of guilt or wrongdoing, even though those who have been pardoned have not been formally accused of any crimes.


    But earlier in the article they mention Biden's explicit statement:

    The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense,” Biden said in a statement. “Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.”


    So Biden explicitly says their is no admission of wrongdoing but the AP ignores that and says there is tacit admission of guilt. Bullshit. When the Pardon statement explicitly say there is no admission of wrongdoing, then that means there is no admission of wrongdoing, tacit or otherwise.

    Who cares how Republicans try to spin it. They are the ones who want to throw people in jail for doing there jobs and not doing anything wrong. Republicans will complain regardless so their reaction should be taken as meaningless.

    SCantiGOP

    (14,329 posts)
    81. Those aren't contradictory statements
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:15 AM
    11 hrs ago

    The first is baked into the legal history of the pardon process; the second statement is what Biden said about this particular occasion.

    Wiz Imp

    (2,829 posts)
    93. Um yes they are.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:48 AM
    10 hrs ago

    When the pardon itself says it is not an admission of guilt, saying otherwise (just because people have traditionally thought that way) does not change that fact.

    And the 10th circuit court of appeals in 2021 ruled that acceptance of a presidential pardon does not constitute admission of guilt.

    Also, just a couple days ago, AP published an article on Trump's promised pardons of Jan 6 insurrectionists and made absolutely no mention of the accepting a pardon would be an admission of guilt. Clearly today's article was biased against Biden and those he pardoned.

    JHB

    (37,508 posts)
    39. When we're at the point where something like this is needed, then...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 08:54 AM
    12 hrs ago

    ...we're also at the point where he'll just ignore it and have a kangaroo court anyway.

    DallasNE

    (7,627 posts)
    98. Justice Can't Do It Because The Power Of The Pardon Is Absolute, But Congress
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:30 AM
    9 hrs ago

    Can open hearings and call witnesses, etc. They can still be drug through the mud and their reputations ruined.

    JHB

    (37,508 posts)
    128. Rules are only as effective as their enforecment.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 07:53 PM
    1 hr ago

    If he feels he can get away with it, his cronies at Justice will do his bidding, and his cronies in the Supreme Court will allow it.

    Norms be damned. What does he care about those?

    rawhideal

    (61 posts)
    45. Dr Fauci
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:00 AM
    12 hrs ago

    Rand Pual pissed he going to try haul Dr Fauci before congress what a sorry asses......

    24601

    (4,036 posts)
    50. While GEN Milley will be protected from criminal charges, including recall to active duty for a Court Martial, he may
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:12 AM
    12 hrs ago

    still be subject to reduction in rank, which is an administrative process unaffected by a pardon. The action is taken by their Service Secretary or Secretary of Defense and an officer may be reduced to the highest rank in which they served satisfactorily - a subjective judgment.

    jalan48

    (14,591 posts)
    51. The Republicans have been trying to break the government since Reagan. They've finally succeeded.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:13 AM
    12 hrs ago

    DallasNE

    (7,627 posts)
    53. I'm Confused On What Crimes Have Been Committed
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:13 AM
    12 hrs ago

    In Milley's case it would need to be in a military court, I would think. In Fauci/Cheney cases a Grand Jury would have to be convened and charges stem from that process. With Cheney it is an exclusive function of Congress so there seems to be jurisdiction issue involved. I don't even see how judge shopping gets an indictment so what am I missing?

    BumRushDaShow

    (145,570 posts)
    54. What crime(s) was/were Nixon convicted for when Ford pardoned him?
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:15 AM
    12 hrs ago


    (this is apparently the precedent that has been around for 50 years)

    DallasNE

    (7,627 posts)
    94. Yes, But Nixon Crime Was Obvious
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:55 AM
    10 hrs ago

    Watergate break-in, tape of Nixon directing the operation. There are no obvious crimes here.

    DallasNE

    (7,627 posts)
    96. The Point Is
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:08 AM
    10 hrs ago

    The lack of faith in the criminal justice system that indictments could even be made. Biden even spoke of the financial ruin this could cause. It shows the vast amount of work that can't even start until Trump is out of office in 4 years. Until then, we are a lawless society.

    JohnSJ

    (96,992 posts)
    75. Really. Perhaps you are not aware of those judges appointed by trump who are ruling against Mifepristone, or
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:07 AM
    11 hrs ago

    judges like Canon who are doing things that are NOT based in law.

    tulipsandroses

    (6,424 posts)
    60. Good. I'm fine with it. This ain't politics as usual! The horse has already left the barn.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:32 AM
    11 hrs ago

    We need to do what we have to. This is one of those things.

    AllaN01Bear

    (23,625 posts)
    66. good on joe, his last offical act. but i have woken up in a bad dream for the next 4 years .:(
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:48 AM
    11 hrs ago

    AkFemDem

    (2,235 posts)
    69. Doubt this happened in a vacuum- Trump admin likely given a wink and heads up
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:53 AM
    11 hrs ago

    This, in effect, lets him off the hook too because he doesn't have to follow through with his audacious threats to persecute these individuals and no doubt lose in the courts and it also gives him some handy dandy precedence to hang in his closet for 4 years from now for his criminal co-conspirators and family members. I expect to hear some blustering, and then nothing about this again until 2029 when he's headed out the door, when we'll see a new record number of preemptive pardons.

    The Biden admin ends their tenure of service looking like heroes to the base, Trump avoids having to waste time/money on fruitless prosecutions, a bunch of Important People in DC feel safe from the incoming admin, a bunch of other Important People in DC who will be ON the incoming admin feel safer now from the next admin. The Powers That Be are all the winningest winning winners.

    fshrink

    (3,406 posts)
    76. And it's going to get ugly.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:09 AM
    11 hrs ago

    We are about to see what narcissistic rage driven vengeance looks like.
    That's what this whole charade is about. Since 2016.

    Jarqui

    (10,531 posts)
    79. I do not fault Biden nor the people Biden pardoned
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:11 AM
    11 hrs ago

    The vindictive felon gave him no choice.
    Hopefully, some day, the United States will be a country that adheres to the rule of law and not the whims of a thug.

    92. We all seem to be assuming that Trump will honor the pardons ...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:42 AM
    10 hrs ago

    What if he doesn't?

    Sure, there is no mechanism for ignoring a presidential pardon (except state crimes). But that does not mean that Trump and his followers will not create an "Unpardon" power for the president out of whole cloth.

    The power to pardon obviously includes the power to revoke pardons. They are almost identical, and you cannot really have one without the other (or some such bullshit)
    - SC agrees 5-4

    This is going into worst case scenario territory, but I fear for us all.

    Stay strong.

    Jarqui

    (10,531 posts)
    103. That makes me sick
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:06 PM
    9 hrs ago

    What did Fauci do but try to help people, etc

    Couldn't stand Dick Cheney but I credit his daughter with at least putting the Constitution and country ahead of the felon. And that is going to get punished?

    Ditto for Milley

    etc, etc, etc.

    It won't last. Too many guns in the country.

    LudwigPastorius

    (11,294 posts)
    121. Not up to Trump to honor the pardons in the first place.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:36 PM
    7 hrs ago

    It would be up to whatever judge is overseeing an attempted indictment, or trial, of these individuals.

    Trump can order his AG to go after these people, but those proceedings have to take place under a federal judge who will have full knowledge that the pardons issued today means that they are immune to prosecution for past actions.

    OhioTim

    (308 posts)
    80. Should Have Pardoned Thousands of People...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:12 AM
    11 hrs ago

    Including all Democrats who are mayors of major cities, the entire Jan 6 Committee, all Democrats in congress, and the list goes on and on. We may have seen the last real election in 2024. Trump declares martial law, doesn't leave office or appoints his son or other cronies as president.

    LetMyPeopleVote

    (156,613 posts)
    97. MaddowBlog-Biden issues pre-emptive pardons for potential Trump targets
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:27 AM
    9 hrs ago

    With just hours remaining, the retiring Democrat issued pardons for Mark Milley, Anthony Fauci and several people related to the Jan. 6 investigation.
    https://bsky.app/profile/joy.msnbc.com/post/3lg6ijsjqlk2l

    🚨Biden issues pre-emptive pardons for potential Trump targets

    With just hours remaining, the retiring Democrat issued pardons for Mark Milley, Anthony Fauci and several people related to the Jan. 6 investigation

    https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/biden-preemptive-pardons-jan-6-cheney-fauci-milley-rcna188366

    For weeks, there's been speculation and White House debate about whether President Joe Biden would issue pre-emptive pardons for those who might be targeted by Donald Trump. As Inauguration Day approached, it appeared that the retiring Democrat had decided not to pursue such an approach.

    Those appearances were wrong. With just hours remaining in his term, Biden issued pardons for:

    Ret. Gen. Mark Milley
    Dr. Anthony Fauci
    Members and staffers of the House Jan. 6 committee
    Police officers who testified before the Jan. 6 committee

    ......"Our nation relies on dedicated, selfless public servants every day," the outgoing president said in a written statement, which did not reference his Republican successor by name. "They are the lifeblood of our democracy. Yet alarmingly, public servants have been subjected to ongoing threats and intimidation for faithfully discharging their duties."

    "In certain cases, some have even been threatened with criminal prosecutions, including General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, and the members and staff of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol. These public servants have served our nation with honor and distinction and do not deserve to be the targets of unjustified and politically motivated prosecutions."....

    "I believe in the rule of law, and I am optimistic that the strength of our legal institutions will ultimately prevail over politics. But these are exceptional circumstances, and I cannot in good conscience do nothing," the outgoing president added in his statement. "Baseless and politically motivated investigations wreak havoc on the lives, safety, and financial security of targeted individuals and their families. Even when individuals have done nothing wrong — and in fact have done the right thing — and will ultimately be exonerated, the mere fact of being investigated or prosecuted can irreparably damage reputations and finances."

    Biden concluded, "The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense. Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country."

    drmeow

    (5,390 posts)
    99. My understanding is that
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:38 AM
    9 hrs ago

    this statement "And with the acceptance comes a tacit admission of guilt or wrongdoing, even though those who have been pardoned have not been formally accused of any crimes." is actually not really accurate - but, of course, the lazy pro-fascist corporate media won't make the proper distinction.

    andym

    (5,760 posts)
    100. We can call these phantom pardons-- pardons for phantom crimes that never happened
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 11:46 AM
    9 hrs ago

    The pardons have to be general to protect against an incoming President with an enemies list. This should help prevent Trump from making the justice department partisan and then using it against his perceived enemies-- although he clearly wants to return to the days of the Andrew Jackson's spoils system, where basically every government job is due partisan favors.

    Nixon had an enemies list and used the government against them (IRS for example)-- and Trump may still do the same. The difference was that Nixon's list was secret, not public, because such behavior was considered un-American.

    sop

    (12,009 posts)
    102. Aside from what anyone thinks about these pardons, at least Bondi and Patel won't be able to create distractions.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:01 PM
    9 hrs ago

    The DOJ and FBi can't spend the next couple of years feeding "Biden investigations and prosecutions" red meat to their horde of rightwing jackals in the media. Bondi and Patel will have to come up with something else to distract corporate media from Trump's failures.

    totodeinhere

    (13,433 posts)
    109. I am so proud of Joe for doing this.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:40 PM
    8 hrs ago

    The MAGA world is going ballistic over this. Good for Joe. He was a great president. I know we all wish him the best in his retirement.

    malthaussen

    (17,820 posts)
    110. So, we have come to the point of issuing pre-emptive pardons for people who have committed no crimes.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:42 PM
    8 hrs ago

    If that isn't a sign of a failed society, I don't know what is.

    -- Mal

    totodeinhere

    (13,433 posts)
    111. It's too bad that it has come to this. But Joe had no choice.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:57 PM
    8 hrs ago

    Turmp forced him into this. All of the innocent people that Turmp threatened need to be protected. Good for President Biden.

    the nelm

    (13 posts)
    112. Does anyone really think that pardons will stop Trump from continuing...
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:57 PM
    8 hrs ago

    to trashing and harassing any of these people? It's what such a petty man like thing and bully does.

    RegexReader

    (424 posts)
    116. nope
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:19 PM
    7 hrs ago

    with criminal actions off the table, then administrative civil forfeiture will be used to seize their assets.

    RegexReader

    (424 posts)
    115. Yeah, after Hunter though....
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:17 PM
    8 hrs ago

    It doesn't look good. There are pix of Hunter with cocaine, and he did buy a pistol while suffering with that addiction cements the idea that he did get away with a felony. There are a lot of people in prison right now for that exact crime. Add in that he was pardoned for not paying a >Million$ in taxes and tax season is now upon us. And the fact that he skated on millions in taxes while the IRS is all up in people's business over $600 sales on eBay. Really not going to sit well with most. May have won this battle but lost the war of public opinion.

    However, I'm remembering that the 'Final Solution' was legal in Germany and during the Nuremberg trials that the war criminals cited Martin Luther. So, when you're being loaded into the box cars or shoved into buses to go to some 'work camp'; or strapped into helicopters, just remember that they're going to be pardoned on 19 Jan 2029. And you will be wondering how it came down to this.

    Not a good look....

    LudwigPastorius

    (11,294 posts)
    119. I notice that Joe didn't pardon Merrick Garland.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:25 PM
    7 hrs ago

    Trump just might make him "go through some things".

    Dark n Stormy Knight

    (10,075 posts)
    122. Absolutely horrifying that he has to do this.
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 02:09 PM
    7 hrs ago

    That he would even need to worry it could be necessary. But I support his action 100%.

    KS Toronado

    (20,030 posts)
    125. To this day it still amazes me how tsf
    Mon Jan 20, 2025, 02:22 PM
    6 hrs ago

    got so many of his loyal MAGAts to hate Dr. Fauci for the simple fact that he would not lie for him.
    Lie for the Fuhrer or get death threats, reeks of Fascism doesn't it?

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