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groundloop

(12,262 posts)
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 08:35 AM Oct 18

Netanyahu promises more war, dashing peace hopes after Hamas leader killed

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Reuters

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's promises to press on with Israel's wars in Gaza and Lebanon dashed hopes on Friday that the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar might help end more than a year of escalating conflict in the Middle East.

Lebanese militant group Hezbollah meanwhile vowed to escalate fighting against Israel and its backer Iran said "the spirit of resistance" would be strengthened by the death of its Palestinian ally Sinwar in Gaza.

Sinwar, a mastermind of the Oct. 7, 2023, attack that triggered the Gaza war, was killed during an operation by Israeli soldiers in the Palestinian enclave on Wednesday, a pivotal event in the year-long conflict.

Netanyahu called Sinwar's killing a milestone late on Thursday but vowed to keep up the war, which in recent weeks expanded from fighting against Palestinian group Hamas in Gaza into an invasion of southern Lebanon and the bombardment of large swathes of the country.



Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hezbollah-says-it-will-escalate-war-with-israel-after-hamas-leader-killed-2024-10-18/

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Ray Bruns

(4,599 posts)
1. Of course he does. It's the only way he stays out of jail.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 08:43 AM
Oct 18

“Oceania was at war with Eurasia; therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia”
George Orwell

atreides1

(16,386 posts)
2. That's one reason
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 08:50 AM
Oct 18

But Israel is likely looking to expand its Northern border...which is why Israel is telling UNIFIL to leave!

moniss

(5,724 posts)
11. They also have a long history of antagonism
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 12:14 PM
Oct 18

against UNIFIL because the force keeps reporting the violations of Resolution 1701 by Israel as well as Hezbollah or the Lebanese government. These periodic reports make it harder for the Israeli government to claim, and sell the lie to Israeli citizens, that the Israeli government is just sitting on the Israeli side of the Blue Line innocently minding things on their side etc. They have a pattern of this same obstruction and deception with other UN organizations tasked with doing human rights investigations, illegal settlement status etc. and they do things like refuse to give documents, provide their own people for interviews, make impossible requested interviews with Palestinians who appear to be the targets/witnesses to abuse/attacks and outright denial of visas and access to the Occupied Territories.

We now are seeing the result of allowing a country to use the "we have a right to defend ourselves" mantra and stretch it cover the commission of war crimes, other violations of international law, abuse and torture of adults and adolescents it "detains" for questioning etc. At the earliest stages of this behavior the US and the rest of the major countries in the West should have been forceful and put a halt to those kinds of things by making it clear that if they were not ended then all military aid would be suspended and a reexamination of our diplomatic recognition would take place as well as our usual posture of defense at the UN Security Council.

But we didn't, and likely won't, take harsh measures and we will see that like other instances time will be allowed to roll by while arguments are had about doing an investigation and then eventually years down the road a report will be issued showing only a cursory investigation and little to no cooperation from the Israeli government. Any recommendations from the report won't be followed in any event and it will just become another footnote.

The enormity of the disproportionate attack/damage in Gaza by the Israeli government needs some context. We know the death toll is higher than reported because we know there are bodies buried deep in the rubble. But even given the figure of 42,000 plus dead the IDF has killed in one year nearly 2/3 as many as the total number of US dead during the the main 10 years of our activity in Vietnam. The square mile area of Gaza is 141 and is barely the size of Philadelphia. Over 60% of Gaza has been destroyed in less than one year. In the first 3 months of the bombing the IDF dropped an estimated 45,000 metric tonnes of bombs and the current total is estimated to be over 75,000. That equates to about 49,000+ and 82,000+ in US tons. That includes about 10% plus in unexploded bombs that will be in the rubble. So in a years time the tons of bombs dropped on just a square mile basis, keeping mind some areas received more than others, has been 581 US tons of bombs. Thought of another way a square mile contains about 400 city blocks if we don't count the streets. So that is nearly 1.5 tons of bombs dropped on every area the size of a city block. Given that the bombing obviously wasn't concentrated on the seashore that means the concentrated bombing on occupied areas was far higher.

The description of the wounded and their ordeal is too sickening for me to even describe but suffice it to say that physicians and nurse having to amputate the limbs of children without anesthetic day after day is a scene straight from Hell. Once the child stops screaming there will not even be clean water to drink or food to eat. There will be no medicine to stave off infection. Many times the same blast that tore at the child's limbs also took the lives of one or both parents. So there may not even be anyone to care for the child going forward. Tens of thousands of people who were receiving cancer treatments and other medical treatments for chronic conditions have been obviously unable to continue those treatments and they have also in most all cases been denied exit from Gaza to other countries where they could receive care.

The laws and treaties about warfare and disproportionate response are there because once military armaments/technology developed to the point where massive devastation to life could happen in a short time the leaders of the world realized that we were way beyond the days and impacts of cavalry charges and cannon lines. It was possible that a near total devastation of a small country by a larger one could take place in a brief time over an incident far smaller in scale than the potential response. The Israeli government, as I've noted before, in the early 2000's embraced something called the Dahiya Doctrine which specifically calls for massive devastation to a civilian population specifically in a massively disproportionate manner. They embraced it, and have obviously implemented it, despite being warned by legal scholars around the world and in Israel that the Doctrine was in violation of international law.

The bottom line is that words have never been effective before and there is no reason to think they will be now. But also as I've noted before the US is on shaky ground to moralize about invasions of countries or disproportionate response when people can point to Iraq etc. Furthermore the Israeli embrace of their Dahiya Doctrine creates their definition of a yardstick for military conduct in conflict. Would they claim the yardstick is inappropriate if a country used it against Israel for an Israeli transgression? But it is a normal fact of human history that people cry out when their own tactics and justifications are turned around and applied to them.

mjvpi

(1,567 posts)
14. You make many good points. That this is done it's my tax dollars is infuriating.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 01:44 PM
Oct 18

bluestarone

(18,225 posts)
3. I'm thinking there is only one way that this war could end. Thai is
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 09:05 AM
Oct 18

Kamala and Tim kick ass in November. and (THIS Supreme court stays the hell out of it)

C0RI0LANUS

(1,319 posts)
4. Netanyahu's Special Military Operation keeps his bribery and corruption trial in abeyance.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 09:26 AM
Oct 18

Meanwhile, Palestinian children line up for food in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip, 17 Oct 2024. A UN-backed assessment has found some 345,000 Gazans face "catastrophic" levels of hunger this winter. (Source: Voice of America; Photo: AP)

And recently Jared Kushner praised the "‘very valuable’ potential of Gaza’s ‘waterfront property.’

Are the people in Gaza going somewhere, Mr. Kushner?





Sources:

https://apnews.com/article/jared-kushner-trump-israel-waterfront-property-901895eeafee867e69d0c4582a4deb47

Voice of America (voanews.com)

Think. Again.

(17,955 posts)
5. When will we stop pretending...
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 09:46 AM
Oct 18

...that any of this has anything to do with anything other than rightwinger netanyahu's lust for killing?

al bupp

(2,349 posts)
6. The beatings will continue until morale improves
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 09:55 AM
Oct 18

C0RI0LANUS

(1,319 posts)
7. And the Labor Party can't do a darned thing against Bibi.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 10:10 AM
Oct 18

Bayard

(24,145 posts)
8. NOW can we cut off his weapon supplies?
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 10:14 AM
Oct 18

maxsolomon

(35,048 posts)
10. it's on the table
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 11:26 AM
Oct 18

over food supplies to N Gaza.

it's the 1st time that Biden has publicly made that threat.

maxsolomon

(35,048 posts)
9. "Dashed hopes" is a tad hyperbolic.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 11:24 AM
Oct 18

What does anyone expect Netanyahu to say in the wake of Sinwar's death? Of course, he's going to say he's pressing on with operations on both fronts - Israel believes they're winning.

That doesn't mean that a ceasefire in Gaza is permanently dead; Netanyahu still wants the surviving hostages out and that's the only way to get them back alive.

"The war, my dear ones, is not yet over," Netanyahu told Israelis late on Thursday, saying fighting would continue until hostages held by Hamas are released.


It's Hamas that needs to get their shit organized now. Are they going to continue Sinwar's no-compromise intransigence? Can they even deliver hostages?

DavidDvorkin

(19,889 posts)
12. Hamas and Hezbollah have already said the same thing
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 01:30 PM
Oct 18

Both sides have to want to stop fighting.

Behind the Aegis

(54,854 posts)
13. ALL sides.
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 01:41 PM
Oct 18

What so many, screeching about Israel, seem to "conveniently" forget is it is NOT just Israel involved in the conflict. Hamas on the west, Hisb'allah to the north, a myriad of terrorist groups from Syria on the NW, and the Houthis to the south. While I hope the Israeli government won't miss an opportunity to end the Gaza engagement and complete the most important task, bringing the hostages home, it doesn't mean any of the OTHER players will be at all interested in ceasing hostilities against Israel, but we won't hear shouts for those forces to STOP.

Of course, the headline now reads: Israel and its Iran-aligned foes vow more war after Hamas leader's death.

Omaha Steve

(103,453 posts)
15. AFTER a review by forum hosts LOCKING
Fri Oct 18, 2024, 01:48 PM
Oct 18

This is NOT the published title.

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