Police in Michigan, a hotbed for armed far-right groups, said they may be powerless to enforce a ban

[Judi Lynn]

Source: USA Today/Business Insider

Police in Michigan, a hotbed for armed far-right groups, said they may be powerless to enforce a ban on guns at polling places
[e-mail] (Tom Porter) 1 hr ago

Michigan police chiefs have said they are unwilling and unable to enforce a ban on openly carrying firearms to polling stations, local media reported.

Law enforcement spoke out about the ban with around one week to go until the November 3 US election. It was imposed this month by Michigan authorities worried that armed groups could intimidate voters..

Michigan secretary of state Jocelyn Benson brought in the ban earlier in October. In a memo he noted that the presence of armed individuals at polling stations "may cause disruption, fear, or intimidation for voters, election workers, and others present."

The ban prohibits the open-carrying of guns "in a polling place, in any hallway used by voters to enter or exit, or within 100 feet of any entrance to a building in which a polling place is located."

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/police-in-michigan-a-hotbed-for-armed-far-right-groups-said-they-may-be-powerless-to-enforce-a-ban-on-guns-at-polling-places/ar-BB1ar1qy?li=BBnb7Kz

[NoMoreRepugs]

1. Since when does "powerless" mean "unwilling??"

Do your FUCKING job or else find another one.

[blueinredohio]

2. Refusing to do your job is insubordination. People get fired for insubordination.

[marble falls]

10. Unless the chief is also being insubordinate.

[blueinredohio]

22. Can't the mayor fire the chief?

[Kaleva]

46. All sheriffs are elected.

[blueinredohio]

54. I wasn't thinking county sheriffs but police chiefs.

[Kaleva]

57. Who very likely are hired by a MAGA mayor or town council.

Most of Michigan is red.

[Kaleva]

47. They are doing what the people elected them to do.

[Major Nikon]

75. They have guns and the rule of law behind them

Has nothing to do with "powerless" and everything to do with "unwilling". Corrupt cops, their corrupt management, and their corrupt unions are pro-Trump as evidenced by them using their positions to support fascism. There needs to be some serious house cleaning.

[dlk]

3. If they are unable or unwilling to do the job, find officers who will

Right wing extremists have infiltrated our police forces. Unless this is addressed in a comprehensive and serious manner, we are in for big trouble.

[Sherman A1]

52. Precisely

If they cannot or will not do the job, they need to find another line of work.

[Hoyt]

4. Police should just do what they'd do if it were Black people carrying gunz to a polling place.

After the election, states and feds need to enact harsh penalties for carrying gunz to polls and protests.

Screw these losers:



?fit=crop&crop=faces

?fit=1240%2C697&ssl=1

[Judi Lynn]

7. Their faces tell the world they are most clearly empty, stupid, stunted people. Real ####-ups.

Apparently they think if people look at their guns, they will be too scared, nervous, to look at their simple, backward faces.

"Losers" is exactly the word.

They've never been the "in crowd."

[Botany]

21. Lower picture .... prison gang hand sign .... Aryan Circle

Aryan Circle (hand sign)
The Aryan Circle is one of the largest white supremacist prison gangs in the United States. Its primary hand sign consists of holding up the thumb and the middle, ring, and little fingers of one hand, signifying the numbers 1 and 3 (which stand for AC). One can also hold up the little finger and the middle and index fingers, plus the thumb.

https://www.adl.org/hate-symbols?cat_id%5B153%5D=153

BTW if the cops aren't going to do their jobs then they can leave their jobs. A large # of cops sadly are
very right wing. They listen to Sean, Rush, and so on and think they are hearing the news. And a #
of skinhead/klan types are working in law enforcement too.

[iluvtennis]

31. Agree...every day ppl should not be able to open carry at gov't/gov't sponsored facilities like

polling places, state capitol building, local gov't offices, DMV, county tax assessors, VA facilities, etc, etc, etc.

[dchill]

98. What a bunch of bonespurs.

[2naSalit]

5. Then they need to be replaced by National Guard...

And they need to be replaced.

[Ferrets are Cool]

8. This x 1000

[Evolve Dammit]

19. Damn straight.

[Kaleva]

48. Many in the Guard are Trump supporters

[LanternWaste]

81. And many are not.

Do you have a breakdown of the numbers?

Or simply another hunch?

[Kaleva]

95. Your typical white male of any age in Michigan is most likely a Trump supporter

[2naSalit]

93. I know, however...

They are under a different command structure and more immediately accountable at the moment.

[Kaleva]

96. True

The members of the Guard answer to the governor. Which is not the case with local police in Michigan

[2naSalit]

97. Exactly. ...nt

[MichMan]

6. Should station armed State Police at every polling station for enforcement

Concentrated on areas with higher densities of population for most effective utilization of resources

[MuseRider]

9. They must have seen this coming.

We did but you never heard from them about how hard this would make their jobs or how much more dangerous. Not a word from those who would end up right where they are now. They could have helped fight this so we would not end up here.

[DownriverDem]

11. Okay then

Send in the National Guard.

[meow2u3]

12. Gov. Whitmer should call in the National Guard or State Police

If local cops "can't" (read: won't) enforce a ban on armed voter intimidation by paramilitary terrorists, the governor should bring in the real militia to drive them away.

[JT45242]

13. Unable...more like unwilling

The police have the power and the ability. They do not have the will because far too many police departments have been infiltrated with neonazi scum over the last twenty years.

Add to that the complete unwillingness of these criminal enterprises masquerading as police unions to turn on their criminal 'aryan brethren' and you have police who are unwilling to do their job -- that is a far cy from 'unable'.

There is a simple solution. Every cop who refuses to perform these duties is fired immediately for dereliction of duty. The Governor brings in the actual regulated militia, the national guard, to protect polling places from the armed wingnuts. You allow the National Guard to detain them and then have them charged with terrorism under the Patriot Act. Then those militia wingnuts and their police co-conspirators can all rot in jail without an attorney until we slow walk the docket like McConnel slow walked Obama judges.

[AllaN01Bear]

14. i want mr biden to inact a draft lottery system if he is elected ,

and install a lottery draft . if they want to play soldier , round em up and march em tell they fall apart. call in the national gaurd . shut down the police.

[kacekwl]

15. Just call 911

and tell them there's a couple of black guys hanging out across the street. They look suspicious. 5-6 patrol cars will be there in no time.

[lastlib]

34. yeah, this.

And they got badass gunz.

[gab13by13]

16. I have a good suspicion,

that many of those police chiefs and officers are they themselves white supremacists. Those people armed at the polls are probably their friends.

[crickets]

45. This. Exactly this. nt

[geardaddy]

74. Bingo

[Aristus]

17. And the next time you pigs take off your badges and name plates,

turn them in to your captain, along with your heat, and go do something else with your steatorrheic lives...

[Duppers]

40. Had to google that word.

Yewwww...but appropriate.

[lark]

18. BS - fire any chief of police unwilling to do his job and protect the voter of MI.

We have to get rid of the white nationalists pigs or we will never be safe.

[Rebl2]

20. Fine then

They should bring in the National Guard to do the job since the police refuse to enforce the ban. I think the chiefs of police should be fired for not upholding the ban.

[DFW]

23. In that case...

Is it then OK if upstanding citizens who feel their lives are in danger organize sniper squads to take out these thugs from afar before they can threaten their families and communities?

I thought not. We are just supposed to let this latter-day Sturmabteilung go about its self-appointed task of voter intimidation.

[dalton99a]

24. Armed thugs at polling stations - like a third-world shithole

[efhmc]

25. I know how Texas' gun fetish is always fair game. However here is our law which I have never seen or

heard of being broken: The legislation allowing open carry of handguns, does NOT change the law as it pertain to guns in the polling place; thus no-one except licensed peace officers may carry handguns into the polling place.

[efhmc]

26. The poll workers should protest. I would.

[The Animator]

27. This looks like a job for Anti-Fascists

Or maybe we need to request aide from UN peacekeepers and poll observers.

[58Sunliner]

28. They are saying that they don't see the law as enforceable?

So what about the law is not enforceable?? Pretty effing vague.


"The administrative order now faces legal challenges and several state police organizations say they’re unsure if it can be enforced.

Robert Stevenson is the Executive Director of the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police.

“The chiefs aren’t saying we won’t enforce it, the chiefs are saying we don’t see how we can enforce it,” he said. “That’s exactly the direction we’ve gotten from county prosecutors.”
https://www.wkar.org/post/michigan-police-officials-say-gun-ban-polling-stations-may-be-unenforceable#stream/0

[yaesu]

29. The pigs whining about this live in prominently white tRump loving suburban MI. nt

[yaesu]

30. If armed people of color showed up at polling places intimidating voters the place would be crawling

with SWAT teams & unidentified Feds, but if a few armed white weekend warriors show up & its like YELP!

[keithbvadu2]

32. Law and order unless they don't want to.

Law and order unless they don't want to.

[cp]

33. Intimidating voters is a felony crime

Whether they're armed or not.

[yaesu]

36. Barr & the fascist court threw Federal laws pertaining to voter rights out the window, wish the UN

or Justin Trudeau could send troops to guarantee a fair transition of power.

[BlueIdaho]

35. Fucking cops ain't worth shit.

Send them all to the unemployment line.

[Kris Mac]

37. They are "powerless" because they are in bed with them

lock, stock and barrel.

[Solly Mack]

38. What bullshit.

Unwilling means they don't want to stop it and refuse to comply or enforce the ban.

Unable to stop it means they're worthless as cops.

Fire them all.

Let people of color carry a weapon in compliance with the ban (just outside 100 feet) and see how quick those unwilling and unable suddenly become all too willing and all too able.

[llashram]

39. after the state capital incident

in this state, this is no surprise. Wonder how many off duty and not police chiefs were there under their masks shouting for the head of Gov. Whitmer? How many in the National Gurd, State police? This shit is serious.

[bucolic_frolic]

41. If they conscripted armed people at the polls for a 4-year Army stint

this problem would evaporate.

[Scalded Nun]

42. Fucking cowards

But they sure are good at shooting unarmed civilians.

[crosinski]

60. Totally agree!

Two Michiganders here who believe the police chiefs are either to coward to enforce this, or are members of militias themselves.

[moreland01]

43. Huh

A police force unwilling or unable to enforce laws is no police force at all. WTF do they think their job is? Their one and only job is to enforce the law.

[Kaleva]

50. They are doing what the people who elected them want them to do.

You got to remember that 80% of Michigan geographically is Trump territory and very gun friendly. Sheriffs are elected and those town and village chief chiefs are hired by mayors and town councils who most likely are MAGAs.

As for enforcing the law, there is no law in Michigan that actually prohibits open carry at polling places.

[dware]

86. The argument from the police is that the SoS doesn't have the authority to

issue such a ban, only the MI Legislature can do that, they don't want to try to enforce an legally unenforceable law, and potentially get sued by some jackass 2nd Amendment auditor because the police violated their 2A rights and state law.

[Sierra89]

44. Alright Then "Chiefs"

Then don't get mad and don't try to enforce parking laws if Bloomberg or someone rents some nice big garbage trucks or buses and parks them in front of polling stations/across from any armed individuals. Park such vehicles right inthe way so that voters do not even have to directly look at them. Or, maybe police won't mind when some REAL Veterans show up armed to flank the wannabees or stand directly in front of voters in line.

If they cannot enfore the ban they shouldn't get mad if someone circumvents their nonsense.

[Nitram]

49. The cops are fucking cowards. Just brave enough to shoot dead an unarmed Black person.

Either that, or they are white supremacist sympathizers.

[llmart]

51. I call b.s. on sheriffs not knowing how to enforce the law. Isn't that their job?

Time for Michigan and all other states to go completely mail in ballots for every election.

[Kaleva]

53. What Michigan law prohibits open carry at polling stations ?

[LiberalLovinLug]

55. Why even use the term "unwilling"?

Is that an admission that most in the police are WITH the Trump brown shirts? Sounds like it to me. I'll bet a lot of whomever is signing up to be a gun toting polling place intimidator are off duty cops.

[onetexan]

56. Gov. Whitmer should call up the National Guards

[roamer65]

92. I agree. I hope she does for us.

[Kaleva]

58. People need to realize there is no state law prohibiting open carry at polling places

An order by the state SOS is not a law.

People here who say the police need to enforce the law will never be able to cite the actual law because there isn't one.

Many local police do not enforce the governor's order on wearing masks. Because it's an order and not a law, local police has discretion to enforce or not. The state police on the other hand, would enforce such an order because they answer to and are under the command of the governor.

[oldsoftie]

65. Thank you for pointing that out. Go vote; let them stand there with their gun.

They're NOT going to block anyone or point the gun. Just freakin' stand in lione & pass by whoever the hell is there. I've done it. Just dont engage them.

[Kaleva]

70. The local police will enforce the law against brandishing a weapon

[LanternWaste]

82. Sure they will.

That's a creative bill of goods to be selling.

[sarisataka]

69. A small but crucial detail

That is being overlooked or ignored.

The police are doing what everyone is demanding, enforcing the law.

I do not know the nuances of MI law but if the order by the SOS exceeds the authority, it cannot be enforced. Even if the governor calls the National Guard, they would be obligated to not follow the order.

It is all dependent on if the law allows the suspension of open carry in specific places (polling sites) for a specific time (election day).

[Kaleva]

71. Open carry is legal in Michigan except in a few well defined locations.

Polling places are not listed as being one of the prohibited areas.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

59. I suspect that many rural sheriffs are like...

... Sheriff J.C. Connors from the movie "White Lightning" (1973), all over the country.

[C Moon]

61. And what would these police do if black people showed up at polls with firearms? nt

[hadEnuf]

62. The only thing these right wing sewer dwelling scum understand is equal force.

Unfortunately.

[louis-t]

63. "Powerless"? They're breaking the fucking law!

Should be arrested. "Powerless", my ass.

[Kaleva]

72. There is no Michigan law that prohibits open carry at polling places.

[louis-t]

79. Is a ban by the governor the same as a law?

Where's the teeth in a "ban"?

[MichMan]

85. The ban was by the Secretary of State and it is not a law

[dware]

87. Please point out where in the MI criminal code it bans open carry

at polling places.

The whole argument is that the SoS doesn't have the authority to ban open carry at polling places in MI, only the MI Legislature, so the police can't legally enforce the ban, IOW, they are enforcing the law that's on the MI books, open carry, except in a few very defined places, is legal.

Polling places isn't on the banned open carry list.

[louis-t]

88. I vote at a school. They can bring guns into a school?

Police can't enforce the ban of SOS, but I doubt Repub pussies can get away with bringing guns into a school.

[dware]

89. Yes, it is as long as one has a concealed carry permit.

Open carry is legal in Michigan schools for individuals with valid concealed pistol licenses. It is illegal for an individual without a concealed pistol license to carry a firearm on school property. People with a CPL cannot carry a concealed firearm on school property

However, a school can ban open carry, but I'm not sure this would be relevant because it's not being used as a school, rather it's used as a public polling place, which makes it a public govt building which then falls under the MI open carry law.

[louis-t]

91. That is the most convoluted bullshit I have ever heard.

I'm sure 'Open carry allowed in schools with CPL though weapon can't be concealed but school can ban open carry except it's not really a school if you are using the school to vote' will be of comfort to the family of any person murdered while trying to vote.

[dware]

94. I'm just taking an educated guess,

and I could be totally wrong about it not being classified as a school while being used as a polling place, maybe someone who knows the specifics of MI open carry laws can chime in here.

[BamaRefugee]

64. The cops don't want to arrest their brothers and cousins just before Thanksgiving. Awkward.

[Ohioboy]

66. There is no reason to show up armed at a polling place unless for intimidation

If Trump actually was for law and order he would denounce any open carrying of weapons at polling places. Period.

[Kaleva]

73. Since most of Michigan is red, they'll be intimidating many Trump voters

Which may not be a bad thing.

[Ohioboy]

80. What do they expect to be preventing...voter fraud???

Do they think they're going to be able to see voter fraud taken place before their very eyes?

These are people that just want to have an excuse to get their guns out. Assholes!

[Cryptoad]

67. Time for her to call up ,,,

the National Guard to help enforce the gun ban if need be,, Gotta talk to these thug in a language they under stand!

[MichMan]

78. Wouldnt some people be intimidated from voting if there were armed police at polling places?

[Cryptoad]

83. Not as intimindated as the thugs ,,,,

who have their guns confiscated by the national Guard when they try to enter the polling place armed

[Mr.Bill]

68. Write all federal funding legislation so that

no funding can be recieved by states who allow open carry. Threatening to withhold funding unless states lowered their speed limits to 55 worked in the 70s.

[FBaggins]

100. Such a move would almost certainly be unconstitutional

It would certainly be ruled so by this SCOTUS.

Threatening to withhold funding unless states lowered their speed limits to 55 worked in the 70s.

The Constitution doesn't have anything to say re: speed limits... and the federal government has some control over the funding of interstates.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

76. But they can ban first amendment activities like electioneering?

Why is the 2nd Amendment more important than the 1st?

It isn’t.

[FBaggins]

101. No. "They" can't ban either.

"They" in this case being the Secretary of State.

The actual "they" that can place restrictions on either constitutional right for a compelling governmental interest is the state legislature. Which has done so in the case of electioneering, but not in the case of open carry near a polling place.

Nobody is saying that such a rule wouldn't serve a compelling government interest (public safety / election integrity). They're just saying that such a rule has to come from a legitimate source with the authority to make it.

[c_junk]

77. The OP has a small error...

I hope it's a typo but the OP said: "Michigan secretary of state Jocelyn Benson brought in the ban earlier in October. In a memo he noted..."

Jocelyn Benson is a woman, probably another reason that Trump hates Michigan so much, all those women in charge. It's surprising to me that he doesn't attack Oregon as much since Portland has had evening protests/confrontations for months and we have a female governor and attorney general, and we were one of the first states to impose a lock down. So many attacks such little hands to punch back with!

#IVOTED

[malthaussen]

84. Emphasis on the "unwilling." n/t

[dware]

90. Unwilling as in that the argument is that the SoS doesn't have the authority

to ban open carry at polling places, only the MI Legislature has that authority, so the police can't enforce an illegal ban, so, in essence, they are enforcing the laws on open carry in MI.

[bobGandolf]

99. Other than intimidation, why else would you need to open carry?

This is utter bs