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limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Dems should pay attention.
This voting bloc is an important part of the Democratic coalition in California and they have a valid concern.
I wouldn't take it as a joke.
That's how people get driven away.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)And if we don't vote for Obama do these guys think the Repuke is going to make it better. Unless their candidate is Paul, they don't stand a chance. I am willing to gamble on Obama again.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)we need to elect as many progressive Democrats to Congress this November who will support this issue.
Check out Ken Aden www.Aden4Arkansas.com and maybe even throw a couple bucks his way...gas went up and he has 10 counties to cover and Walmart/lWomack to beat. Check out who we get to live with.
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/campaigns/4286
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)I live in So. Cal. and can have MJ delivered. Even if not I would not vote for anyone else but Obama. MJ is to easy to find to risk giving any votes to RepubliCONS. I think the OP writer is trying to make a living selling MJ. Too bad, vote Democratic anyway fool.
DeathToTheOil
(1,124 posts)In fact, I saw a documentary on it last night.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)but then again, they also hate it knowing if it were made legal they'd have to pay taxes on it. It would easily nearly triple in price.
I dont' know about MEDICAL marijuana, though. I believe it's legal, but I don't use the stuff so I can't be sure.
Webster Green
(13,905 posts)The feds do not recognize the legality though, and have ramped up the attacks on dispensaries. The oldest one in the state just closed down last week after continuing harassment by federal authorities.
DeathToTheOil
(1,124 posts)That's exactly what I saw in the doc.
Doc Holliday
(719 posts)Sounds like something that a cunning politician could spin as a states' rights issue-- which traditionally is GOP territory.
But, as someone upthread remarked, there aren't many 'pro-dope' Republicans.
ThomThom
(1,486 posts)the price must go down
RainDog
(28,784 posts)but they couldn't state precisely.
however, what we have already seen is that, with the proliferation of state-legal mmj outlets, the wholesale price of cannabis has dropped.
What CAN happen, however, is the price can be kept somewhat consistent by taxation - this shifts the profit from the producer, whose wholesale price would drop, to govt revenues - like we now do with alcohol or tobacco.
the goal for such things is to keep the price as high as possible to make it expensive to obtain commercially (tho ppl could grow their own to save money) but not high enough to create a black market.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)as a matter of fact, paying taxes is central to the legitimization process.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)With a medical card it is legal to purchase from an authorized seller or club.
We pay taxes on alcohol and tobacco and no one seems to mind. I doubt if it would triple the price. What it would do is put the black market out of business.
In fact with the latest crackdowns and closing of Medical Marijuana Dispensaries along with weather conditions prices have gone up.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=8461554
2banon
(7,321 posts)They assume jurisdiction under the rubric of the War on Drugs, and Marijuana is still classisfied as a harmful drug, (forget the actual wording used) . There is an easy solution, Congress can change the classification, and that would essentially end the problem and the phony war.
But there's too much money and ill gotten gains that benefit the DEA and other Federal agents/agencies that profit hugely from the so called "War on Drugs". Like other unnecessary wars, this one is just another racket.
Kurmudgeon
(1,751 posts)xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)kill this congress, vote straight DEMOCRAT ticket
saras
(6,670 posts)I'd love to have a government in which the liberal majority could vote in a Congress that reflected their values, and Obama would have to deal with it.
But the two-party system forbids such an outcome.
2banon
(7,321 posts)
He had one going in.. remember? Dems controlled both houses in 2008/09. didn't change until November 2010.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)The Democratic party is outright foolish to not take this issue seriously.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)Personal use is between 50%-53%.
I'd say Any politician, incumbant or new candidate running for Any election at Any level state and federal would be almost certain to win based upon science and fiscal responsibility alone-not even to mention civil liberties.
At least amongst single issue voters-but this issue goes far and beyond just one issue.
Fiscal Respoonsibility, Science and Common Sense
We tax payers are spending $75 to $85 Billion annually on the WoD's. Pure fiscal waste. Harm Reduction Education programs are mostt successful and cost very little.
Science tells us this is a safe plant to comsume. Common Sense reveals ones ability to tell the difference between propaganda and reality.
Then there is the matter of personal rights.
Big Nanny State Gov't Policies are way too far up in my entertainment choices, my personal relationships and with whom I choose to share my life with, medicine chest, phone line, emails, dr's office, uterus, and bank accounts to mention a few.
Cannabis must be DE-Scheduled at the federal level and regulated for I do not advocate those under 21 consuming cannabis other than medical under a physicians care.
Anyone who chooses could grow their own, out of public view after paying a nominal fee for a permit, for personal use. Cities, Counties, States and Feds all get a share of the revenue.
Win/Win.
Thank you for starting this conversation. We need to vet our elected officials on this issue along with candidates who wish to replace them. We need to be serious, with knowledge and facts and demand they tell the truth.
We Do have the facts, they only have the lies.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)on the flip side,
"Last week, the Department of Revenue sent a letter formally petitioning the federal government to reschedule marijuana; read it below. Sensible Colorado's Brian Vicente sees the move as a sign of the times, and predicts such rescheduling will happen within five years -- if Barack Obama or Ron Paul win the 2012 election.
"I think it was actually fairly meaningful," says Vicente about the letter, penned by DOR head Barbara Brohl. "Colorado was the fourth state just last year to send a request to the federal government to reconsider marijuana's schedule in the Controlled Substances Act" -- Schedule 1, meaning it has no officially recognized medical value on the federal level. "That shows the groundswell of support is growing.""
-- I don't think this guy has a crystal ball - but he's basically saying that anyone who votes for any republican other than Paul is not doing the cause any favors.
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/01/marijuana_rescheduling_ron_paul_barack_obama.php
the guy from Harbor Side in the OP just did a reality show and ended saying he just supports mmj - which sort of irked some people around here - I never saw the show - but others in the community weren't so very happy with him - so I don't know that he speaks for anyone but himself.
I do think there's a good chance CO could go legal this year, however, and I don't know anyone who wants to have the feds coming down on any state that is trying to work out its laws.
Decriminalization could simply move the entire issue to states to work out.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)telling the Feds to Butt the hell out and over-rule federal interference/law that fails to serve CO residents.
I did not watch the series either-I heard about the kerfluffle w/Harborside and in a follow-up interview this person stated his comments were Not aired in full context. It was Not his intent to share the message that the program did. I believe him- We are talking MSM here, basically and they do this crap All the time-it has happened to Me. I have Never met a proponent of MedCanna be against personal use for everyone. It is a common belief that if a person tries Cannabis and returns to use it again, it's because it makes them feel better. That seems to be medical use to me and by Far safer than PHRMA Drugs and Booze when one needs to have a bit of stress relief.
The US Govt has maintaind a series of various patents preserving their rights to an assortment of medical & other applications...
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6113940/description.html
http://www.patentstorm.us/search.html?q=marijuana&s.x=15&s.y=19
The Big Monied List of Opposition is Long and Powerful.
Liquor Industry
Prison Industrial Complex
Law Enforcement
Drug Testing Manufacture
BigPhrma
Drug Treatment Facilities/Industry
Plastics etc (God forbid Hemp "to-go" cartons/cups etc should be created)
Pulp Paper Industry (Think Koch Bros & GP)
The Food Industry
Big Oil
ETC
So yes, any efforts to give civil liberties Back to the people is harnessed by Big Gov Policies.
This is one of the Most revealing decisions ever published and it is by the DEA's Own ALJ in 1988.
One might also consider that since Nixon started the WoD's and Ignored the Shaffer Report (that Nixon himself ordered) that We Americans have been forced to invest more than $1 Trillion Dollars-I believe those dollars would have served us All elsewhere. Thats a Crap Load of Money!
http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm
DEA's ALJ Francis L Young:
"3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?
4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented
cannabis-induced fatality.
- 56 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on
marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world.
Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no
credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.
6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.
7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply
stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to induce death.
8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around 1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as
much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within
about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.
9. In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity.
- 57 -"
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law1-4.shtml
Of course this Begs the Question: Why Does The Federal Gov Keep Cannabis As a Federal Schedule I "Drug"?
Federal Drug Sched I Definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act#Schedule_I_controlled_substances
It is up to Us, collectively to Stop this Nonsense, Fiscal Waste and Destruction of Lives and Finally Benefit Society.
This facade is all about Corpoate Money and Control.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)I'd never read about the Nixon tapes before -- VERY interesting!
Yep, it's up to us to get through to this administration, which has taken a pro-corporate stance in this fight. Sad, but true.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)I've posted a lot of primary source material and links to the same - you should read about La Guardia's studies - he doubted the propaganda from the FBN from the beginning (La Guardia also spoke out about alcohol prohibition.)
Studies were done by the Army and in Canada back then, too, that demonstrated the entire prohibition of cannabis issue was based upon lies.
What this issue ultimately does is create contempt for government.
Bad laws that are allowed to stand for as long as this has do nothing but demonstrate how corrupt those who are involved in prohibition were, are and will continue to be.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 7, 2012, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)
to launch Sativex here - people here ought to recognize states like CA will be PISSED OFF if the feds try to finagle some sort of "segregated" scheduling based upon delivery system.
no doubt. that will not stand.
fool me once... as in marinol... it will come down to courts and big shit hitting the fan.
the feds should give the locals a running start if they're going to have a multi-national pharma marketing cannabis spray in the U.S.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)Shes Now Working For GW Pharma!!! After All the Nasty stuff she said and did---
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/andrea-barthwell-snake-oil-salesman/
RainDog
(28,784 posts)iow, this is just like any other lobbyist for any other bunch of corrupt bureaucratic institutions.
and they fucking put people in JAIL if they're not connected to a pharma co.
I want to throw large objects across the room.
Since people seem to think mj is such a joke issue - they ought to consider the corruption of those who are making shitloads of money off of ruining people's lives, making it impossible for people to get student loans, making it impossible to get safe medicine - KILLING people - as with Peter McWiliams...
I swear I want to slap people who joke that this is about stoners.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)very effective propaganda machine. The 60's Doper stereotype lives on strong.
We should heed that reality cuz it's gonna get really bad during the 2012 elections. The Propaganda machine will be on Steroids. Or already is.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)The host of the show failed to mention that Barthwell had worked as a lobbyist for a company that would benefit from keeping cannabis illegal.
In addition, the host didn't understand the difference between a synthetic and natural plant-based entity.
In addition, the crawl says 25 million have treated for marijuana abuse but failed to indicate that the majority of those entering rehab for cannabis had not used it for more than a month prior to rehab (which indicates they were not addicted) or that the majority of people in the U.S. who go to rehab in the U.S. do so to avoid a criminal record for simple possession. iow, that stat is bullshit.
but this is the CONSTANT propaganda you deal with in this nation in regard to cannabis. And, even so, a majority favors legalization.
Cannabis prohibition is a MAJOR FAILURE and someone needs to put that policy out its misery sooner rather than later.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Here's what Barthwell had to say when she was being paid to promote prohibition:
But you won’t find any commercial development of plant-based marijuana medicines being pursued in the United States. Andrea Barthwell, a deputy director in the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy and President Bush’s point person on medical marijuana, says cannabis medicines aren’t compatible with modern science. They do not constitute “a serious line of research,” she says.
“The people who are advancing marijuana as a medicine are perpetuating a cruel hoax that exploits our compassion for the sick,” Barthwell says. “They are using patients’ pain and suffering in an attempt to change America’s drug control policy. Marijuana is a crude plant product that most definitely is not a medicine.”
(that's from your link)
THEN this (I cannot use the words I would like) showed up at a conference sponsored by Americans for Safe Access and claimed that Sativex is not cannabis...and she's a doctor?
After I pointed out to the few reporters that she was not JUST a private citizen, but the ex-Deputy Drug Czar, a representative of GW, and the failed Republican nominee for IL Senate, she told the press that rescheduling marijuana would not make it available to patients. I concurred. Then she asked me how I could say that Sativex was marijuana. I asked her if it was not marijuana, what was it? She rattled off her sound byte "If your grandmother was in pain would you give her opium?"
I am writing this list because I have major concern for the future of Sativex. Barthwell looked ridiculous. All the reporters kept asking her "They are here in support of Sativex, what is your problem?" And she just kept giving her sound bytes about how Sativex was not marijuana. Luckily Matt Atwood, Executive Director of IDEALReform, also a chemist was present and challenged her on the "compound level" to which her only response was "What are you a scientists?"
Directly after the press conference, I received a "Cease and Desist" order from the Bayer attorneys over a domain name ASA purchased but had yet put up the content www.SativexInfo.org , www.SativexInfo.com, and www.SativexInfo.net which is a pro-Sativex website they also found out about from Don Wirtshafter's e-mail. We have kindly told them we will not be giving over the domains and we will end up in court in the next 20 days or so.
So, we see that, yes, indeed, scumbags like this woman are working with Bayer and GW to pull some slick shit and make Sativex legal while keeping the cannabis plant illegal.
I suppose that's why the Drug Czar amended his pronouncement that there is no medical value to cannabis to "smoked" cannabis. He may soon have to start saying... smoked, buttered, baked, vaped, tinctured or any other way if not done by the big pharma we favor.
The "single issue" here is corrupt govt practices.
provis99
(13,062 posts)you really need to put down the bong for awhile.
dhill926
(16,953 posts)and I totally agree with you......
frylock
(34,825 posts)generation of much needed tax revenue, imprisonment of non-violent offenders, and saving money wasted on the war on some drugs just to name a few. it goes far beyond your simplistic view of b-loads and cheetoes.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)One issue voters infuriate me. They cause a lot of harm and don't even seem to care.
Zhade
(28,702 posts)So to me, it's a pretty fucking big deal.
Your comment is just another tired, ignorant snark about a subject that actually is of serious import to millions of people. I don't think you should dismiss it so casually.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)provis99
(13,062 posts)since you don't seem to give a damn otherwise.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)really?
that's a pretty low-down scumbag thing to do.
honestly - what do you think you are accomplishing by doing this other than having people think that someone with your mindset has nothing worthwhile to say about anything?
where is your compassion?
who, other than a sick fuck, would attack someone who has a medical issue whose problems are made worse by the continuation of bad law?
do you make fun of people who are wrongly tortured? how about women who are raped?
BootinUp
(50,762 posts)YEeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawww
Fearless
(18,458 posts) 
harun
(11,380 posts)
Bozita
(26,955 posts)Bill Schuette (R-Gestapo) is spending a good part of his budget trying to overturn a landslide, voter-approved (2008) initiative PERMITTING MMJ.
Government doesn't work because so many of these fuckers who are elected to it simply don't believe in government itself. Period.
Assholes like Schuette are Grover Norquist's wet dream come true.
Obama had better take a good look at this Michigan voter experience.
dougolat
(716 posts)The Drug War industry is as entrenched as the Health Insurance grifters: neither gives an inch.
The medical facts or the historical background should be adequate arguments for ending hemp prohibition; but it's the economic counter-productivity that seems to clinch it for most of the people I talk with. Once they grasp how much they spend on policing, prosecuting, and incarcerating hemp users they're pretty unhappy, but if they can see that it's the illegality itself that makes a florist-shop or corner drug-store
product into a dangerous contraband, and the established criminals simply make a phone call to send our police after upstart competition, that seems to be the most convincing argument!
Obama has said encouraging things, but his D.O.J. has gone the other way lately. Gotta think it's the money; everywhere you look, money trumps common-sense and idealism.
duhneece
(4,465 posts)Dept of Justice only hired other R's (and turned away applicants who appeared liberal, by way of which organizations they volunteered, supported or were members of) and they became firmly entrenched. It will take several Democratic Presidents/congress to move the DOJ away from the far-right.
It does appear they have influenced Obama in a very negative way on MMJ.
Then you have NM's Governor, a former prosecutor, who would like to do away with MMJ, but backed off of a direct assault...instead, she's going after undocumented immigrants who can get a drivers license in NM, but she still hates MMJ and is vocal about it.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)Look... the pot smokers are still gonna vote for Obama. That's a no-brainer. But let the pot activists make hay and push the Democrats back to the left where they belong. Ron Paul isn't gonna win shit, and if he runs as a 3rd party, then he is will just further hand a victory to the Dems. But in the mean time, hold some fire to the heels of Dem candidates re: matters thats appeal to their progressive base. Unless the EU falls off a cliff and drags the world down with it, Obama is going to win hands down, so lets also bring along some progressive senators and congressmen too.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)some people want to keep fighting about the 1960s.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)is if Gary Johnson, former gov. of NMex, runs as an independent - just for the spoiler factor. He signed off on the big Global Drug Policy call to end the war on drugs - but in his state he didn't do nearly as much as he said he would - maybe b/c he was also working with a legislature...
however, Obama could make some small moves this year that would signal changes - everyone knows he's not a drug warrior. He gets it - he sees what's coming with cannabis meds.
so, honestly, it doesn't hurt him to put some pressure to give him a reason to do what should be done anyway. it's not like people expect him to go beat up Lamar Smith to get the House decriminalization bill out of his greasy little committee hands.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)Gary Johnson is done. I've followed him a bit and he has no chance.
Really, Paul or Roemer have a better chance at that angle. But the Idea that I'm sayin is .... Push Obama to the left as far as electably possible with his campaign.... lets see him earn small $ votes like in 08 (and therefore he OWES his small dollar supporters - NOT THE DLC).
The thing is, Obama is the 'Master Jedi - 12 dimensional smart chess) president (for better or worse depending on your support of him),......... But what Obama understands is pragmatism, UNFORTUNATELY... its largely political chess pragmatism, and this is not a game! The the average Joe understands existence as a pragmatic way of life in a way that Obama panders too, but is disconnected from, so... will he ever re-learn it...... not likely in a soul searching sense.... Therefore: can us 99% cause him to pause and think... That is about my only hope.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)heh heh.
Seems the issue will come down to fiscal arguments. the taxpayer waste is that something conservatives $ee and money always trumps throwing some chump change to the religious right for them.
as far as pushing this over the edge. don't know who or what can get that bill out of committee, tho.
but, seriously, with the D. Czar's "correction" that "smoked" marijuana has no medical value - if they try to pull some slick shit over Sativex - that will hurt the democratic party at the polls all down the line - whether this election or ones to come - in states that are reliably Demo, b/c ppl will just finally be too pissed off - sez I and I have no crystal ball either.
But the issue provides all kinds of "win" against conservatives about big govt spending, personal rights, civil liberties - this issue goes against everything they supposedly stand for. hell, it's even traditional. it's been around for 5000 years.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Put a normal, nice-guy face on the whole thing.
I don't know how anyone can listen to Steves speak and still be against legalization. Maybe the 51% number is partially his influence?
RainDog
(28,784 posts)and, tho I was joking, such an appt. would be the equivalent of sending Huntsman to China.
at the same time, Johnson could go after the massive money hole that is the DEA and begin rescheduling hearings on his own, based upon existing evidence that the current scheduling is incorrect.
the more I think about it... the more I like the idea.
Mopar151
(10,343 posts)Can you imagine the bliovating emenating from Limbaugh alone?
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Let Limbaugh say something - and then ask him why he supports spending billions on failed federal policy. Let the attack dogs go after him and ask him why he thinks his oxycontin should be legal (even if he abused it) but someone who benefits from marijuana to keep from dying from chemo should have to put up with his shit.
Ask him why he supports laws that cannot be enacted.
Ask him why he's a BIG GOVERNMENT REPUBLICAN.
Ask him why conservatives are so worried about what goes on in the privacy of others' lives. Ask him when conservatives lost their way - was it when they aligned with racists after the civil rights act?
Ask him why he continues to support policy that was created SPECIFICALLY to target minorities - and continues to do to this day, unless he, himself is a racist. Oh, but we all knew that anyway - of course someone like Limbaugh supports racist policies.
The reason the federal govt needs to do something about this is that all states are not like CA or CO. It is unfair to sentence someone to pain and suffering or death b/c of a policy founded upon racist lies.
If Democrats cannot figure out a way to frame this issue that attacks Republicans on what they say are their core values, then they just aren't trying, because, again, prohibition of cannabis is against every single conservative value - except for racism.
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)My understanding was that he could decriminalize it completely at the federal level by instructing the DEA to de-schedule it. I wouldn't call that minor...
He could also have the DOJ stop enforcing, if not for all cannabis then at least for MMJ.
The fact is that he hasn't taken either of these actions that he could unilaterally take.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)Re: MedCanna and State Laws is being honored.
Yes, raids are still occurring. Raids are not occurring when the terms of the Holder memo are met.
The gist of it: No Sales/Profit and Full Compliance with State MedCanna Laws, Rules and Policies
One factor people just don't understand yet is that the Local City, State and County Police are ASKING for Federal intervention because (in part) they Fear losing budget dollars aka: Drug Money. The Feds (I can't believe I'm saying this) Are not necessarily to blame for initiating a lot of whats going on right now.
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)It's intended to shut down dispensaries... Do you think MMJ patients all have the skill or even health to grow their own?
fredamae
(4,458 posts)aside from Corporate Control of the money.
I understand those dispensaries that operate as true Non-Profits are rarely "busted" because they are not profiting from Cannabis.
As far as MedCanna Patients equally being capable of producing their own-No, they are Not equal. There is a Huge gap in safe accessibility and its Wrong.
Those who choose this inexpensive, safe, plant based herbal alternative medicine ARE distinctly discriminated against and its appalling. So much needless suffering.
Don't misunderstand, I Disagree with the directive and its terms. All farmers and retailers should have the opportunity to earn a living from their work. This is an Agriculture commodity.
All MedCanna patients should have a legal and safe environ from which to buy This medicine just like Anybody else who chooses PHRMA therapies and legally makes their purchases at their local Pharmacy.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)morphine and cocaine are schedule II, not I. Heroin and cannabis are considered equally harmful according to our govt - which is insanity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_cannabis_from_Schedule_I_of_the_Controlled_Substances_Act
Activists have worked to reschedule - this is the incrementalism of pragmatists who recognize that changes are most often made in steps - as in the mmj laws in CA in 1996 to the current total legalization activism - and, fwiw - this has worked within the framework of draconian law - Ahnuld decriminalized all mj in CA just before the 2010 legalization vote. I doubt that would've happened if not for the push for legalization - so these are the sorts of "small" victories along the way that change bad policy. If the legalization initiative had passed, the decriminalization would've been 'meh' - but since it didn't, the law took another step toward sanity.
The prop. failed 54 to 46. None of the national-level democrats supported it. Some people didn't like *that particular* proposition and wanted a better one. Some growers wanted to maintain the price for their product and started a big campaign against the Prop. among the MMJ community. iow, those coming down as for or against that particular Prop were not aligned according to the black and white breakdowns of the "usual suspects" for certain issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act
...a report published in The Lancet Journal, researchers have introduced an alternative method for drug classification in the UK. This new system uses a “nine category matrix of harm, with an expert Delphic procedure, to assess the harms of a range of illicit drugs in an evidence-based fashion.” The new classification system suggested that alcohol and tobacco were in the mid-range of harm, while cannabis, lysergic acid diethylamide ("LSD"
this would make more sense b/c the reality is that alcohol is more dangerous than cannabis.
if cannabis were REMOVED from the drug schedules, that would be the equivalent of decriminalizing in the same way that alcohol is not on the drug schedules. But that's not what activists have tried to do. They have worked to change the scheduling - the "small step" that eventually changes bad law.
If the DEA held rescheduling hearings - and, honestly, I don't see how they can avoid this in the next 2 years b/c of the applications from governors and the Sativex issue, this would be a process, not a "VOILA!" moment. Our govt would hold hearings and compile evidence from experts. So, the small step of signaling a desire for hearings would not immediately result in rescheduling for at least another couple of years.
this link talks about the process -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117069
Doc Holliday
(719 posts)Couldn't the President simply sign an Executive Order ordering its descheduling? If I recall my civics classes, those used to be prettty useful.
That is, if I'm remembering correctly.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)to vote for in Nov. Johnson is vying for the Libertarian nomination for Prez. The Lib party will be on the ballot in all 50 states. Johnson supports the legalization of all MJ, not just MMJ so voters will have a choice, and in some states, like NM, Johnson could get enough votes to swing the outcome to benefit Romney.
It is a situation that is not so easily dismissed as preposterous.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Good laugh!
tridim
(45,358 posts)Obama supports legal MMJ, always has.
randome
(34,845 posts)The dispensaries that were shut down allegedly have issues with inventory control. I don't recall all the details but I remember one was having a 'sale' on marijuana. That's just trying to circumvent the laws.
You can argue about the legality of marijuana in general but the fact is it is still against the law except for medicinal purposes. Someone likely saw an opportunity to make a statement against the System.
Well, the System spoke back. The fact that not all dispensaries were closed demonstrates that the government thinks it has a case against those that were forced to close.
tridim
(45,358 posts)They were allegedly breaking STATE law.
All dispensaries in every legal state are technically breaking Federal law, which is why the Obama Administration wisely issued the directive for the Feds to lay off legal MMJ businesses.
Then, has Holder gone Rogue on Obama?
You're saying that Obama opposes the recent heavy handed crack down vis a vis Federal Raids ala Holder's orders, here in California ?
Really?
randome
(34,845 posts)The dispensaries in CA were closed down because they were openly flouting state and federal laws. Other dispensaries were left alone.
So saying that Obama is against MMJ because he shut down SOME but not ALL of the dispensaries doesn't sound logical.
2banon
(7,321 posts)If you live in California and have been following closely the actions and serious threats of actions that have taken place in recent weeks, and are being reported to take place soon (whatever that means) , you might be just a bit more skeptical of this administrations's attitude and intentions on this matter.
Harborside is just down the street from me.. they've enjoyed well deserved praise and appreciative accolades from the community, city of Oakland, as well as the state.
The existance of MMJ Dispensaries is considered "flouting" Federal laws.
This is all about big business, like big Pharma who wants to own a monopoloy on the industry, shoving aside small operations and small owners/growers. That's what the so called "legalization" initiative on the 2010 ballot was all about.
Follow the Money interest.
tridim
(45,358 posts)The raids in CA were because some dispensaries were allegedly breaking state law.
Thosands of legal dispensaries that weren't breaking state law remain open for business.
2banon
(7,321 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)They Obama Administration supports legal MMJ.
2banon
(7,321 posts)A case of Cognitive Disonance, apparently.
ihavenobias
(13,532 posts)Your initial suspicion was correct:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10175339
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Cohen was in full compliance with CA law - had a SHERIFF who came to his place and i.d.ed every plant based upon the patient for whom it was intended... it seems that his offense was two-fold - he advertised that he was complying with state law and he appeared on a PBS video that looked into the subject.
I find it more than a little over-the-top that his business was targeted, all the plants were torn out - so, while the "letter of the law" may allow someone to say this action was warranted - the spirit of the law does not.
He was trying to do everything by the book and he was targeted.
In what can only be described as a frontal assault on medical marijuana, federal agents are currently raiding Northstone Organics. The Mendocino collective is a well known provider of medical marijuana. The Executive Director, Matt Cohen, has recently been featured on Frontline’s epsisode, The Pot Republic. This not-for-profit co-op offers home delivery of cannabis grown organically in Mendocino county to patients throughout the Bay Area and beyond. Cohen and Northstone Organics have been pioneers in Mendocino County’s “ziptie” program which allows medical marijuana growers to pay a fee for a permit to grow a number of plants up to 99 in certain conditions.
The website of Northstone Organics appears to be partially taken down. The site is showing a “Due to Technical Difficulties, our web site is currently unavailable” message. Speculation is that this is related to the raid.
California NORML Coordinator, Dale Gieringer, denounced the raid as a “shameful and despicable” attack on California’s most successful legally regulated marijuana cultivation program. ”The DEA is doing nothing but encouraging lawlessness and disobedience to the law,” said Gieringer, “This is a victory for the Mexican cartels.”
The US Attorney Laura Duffy says that she’ll go after media outlets that advertise marijuana products.
Duffy's defense of her actions was "think about the children."
typical right winger propaganda.
randome
(34,845 posts)As flawed as you might think the law, it was still the law. I don't see how anyone can seriously conflate closing down dispensaries that violate the law with wanting to close down ALL dispensaries.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)because this guy was doing everything he could to follow the law for patients.
it's like enforcing a blue law.
it's bullshit.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)If he takes away their access to the same.
He also supports decriminalization and has also said the WoD is a failure.
But actions speak louder than words.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)there`s no presidential candidate that will endorse medical marijuana.
they really need to put down the pipe.
thesquanderer
(12,875 posts)...it may be that only a Republican will be able to relax marijuana laws. Dems will find it harder to do for fear of appearing "too liberal." Republicans can more easily focus on the economic and law enforcement benefits, i.e. a source of tax revenue, and freeing resources to pursue other law-and-order agenda.
Deep13
(39,157 posts)...can be modified by him to support it.
Xtraneous
(94 posts)That's the key. MMJ is the slippery slope back to the growing of hemp, which could annihilate the oil/plastics industry, that's the real backstory. If mj were to be legitimized as having a readily accepted and legalized medical application the whole concept of growing industrial hemp would lose the invented monkey on its back. It's the oil industry that forced pot prohibition, it will be the force that delays any progress towards legalization.
So, the only candidates we should be supporting are not those who support the canard of medical cannibas but those that support separating the personhood concept out of corporations. Which clearly again points directly to Paul.
I'm confused by your laughing emoticon. So tell me how has Obama moved an inch in this direction- in either the corporation personhood issue and/or mmj? He's actually become an enemy to both. How is it being a slave to what the corporate world tells you?
randome
(34,845 posts)Obama is not trying to shut down all dispensaries. He is shutting down the ones that flaunt the law.
Having a 'sale' on medical marijuana makes it pretty obvious that they weren't selling it for medicinal purposes.
Again, this is separate from the full legalization question. Like or not, the current administration cannot allow state facilities to flaunt federal law.
I guess it remains to be seen what other evidence they have about the dispensaries that were shut down but to say Obama is not in favor of MMJ is untrue.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)and as such having a "sale" to move older product makes perfect sense.
randome
(34,845 posts)If whatever they were doing -under whatever set of circumstances- was against the law, it's a no-brainer why the feds closed them down.
Regardless of how one feels about full legalization, the government cannot allow a dispensary to openly flout federal authority.
That's not AT ALL the same thing as saying Obama is trying to shut down all MMJ dispensaries.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)since this is a question you posed to me about the issue of cannabis in general
where are the huge numbers of Californians asking for the federal govt to interfere with them working out issues in their state laws?
randome
(34,845 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)in this situation - Obama is choosing to use the federal govt on an issue that has HUGE support - the issue of mmj and cannabis in general.
Legislators in CA asked Obama to let them work out their own laws.
Of course, he may have been doing a favor for the growers in CA since, as of Oct. the report was that a huge crop was coming in - so this opened up the market for them.
additionally, this enforcement has driven up the price of wholesale cannabis.
so, whether or not he did this to intentionally benefit an illegal market or not, that's the outcome.
funny how the drug war continues to be a losing proposition, decade after decade, and yet pols continue to do the same stupid things in response.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I'll have some of what you're smoking!
I support the full legalization of pot, but that is just a dumb comment.
Bohunk68
(1,417 posts)I recall reading that the Ford Motor Co was using plastics made from hemp on the door panels. Also, I haven't goggled it, but Henry For also advocated making plastics from hemp. I realise you would like a link to that, but sorry, don't know how to do it.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)to move to more earth-friendly ways to support our current civilization, hemp is part of that process.
I don't think the plastics industry would be annihilated - but the reality is that hemp is a replacement for any petrol-derived plastics product.
It's a renewable source for plastics, grows quickly, has a zero carbon footprint, and has a huge number of uses - most importantly as a food source via hemp seed b/c of its excellent nutritional profile.
People overstate things often - but ethanol wasn't considered outside the purview of our govt as a replacement for non-renewable energy resources and hemp is better than corn as a biomass for everything for which corn was touted.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)In fact I view it as an eventual necessity.
It was the "wipe out the plastics industry" comment that made me go "WTF?".
2banon
(7,321 posts)and the Federalis who profit from illegalization. DEA, CIA, and on and on.
jmowreader
(52,849 posts)You don't seriously think Big Chemical, outfits like BASF, Bayer, DuPont or Solvay, couldn't start making hemp-based plastic rather than petroleum-based plastic, do you?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)is from his party. Safe to say.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)although they are one of the routes by which decriminalization may occur - and there is a bill that is stuck in Lamar Smith's committee right now.
Smith, a Republican who represents Austin, TX, has stated the bill will never leave his office. Unfortunately, b/c of the gerrymandering TX republicans have done over the years, it's not even likely that Austin can get rid of the guy.
If cannabis was removed from the drug schedules, it would be removed from the purview of the DEA. Instead, it would be something the FDA would regulate.
Both the DEA and the FDA have the capacity to call for rescheduling b/c, when Congress passed the Controlled Substances Act, they left the issue of scheduling to these two agencies. Congress can add something to the schedules, but they are not required to remove something.
Rescheduling is not overseen by Congress - it's done among bureaucracies.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)comments like "put down the bong" and "smoking crack along with their cannabis."
This individual who would seriously benefit medically from medical cannabis resents your cavalier and wrong-headed attitude toward medical cannabis advocates.
Look, I'm an advocate and to some degree an activist, but no, this won't be my deciding factor when I vote. But yeah, I'm pissed as hell at Obama and his Bush-like attitude toward medical cannabis and his backward crackdowns on medical marijuana dispensaries AND patients! Bush-like? Yup....he's ignoring the STRONG science and scientific support for medical uses of cannabis. He has his head as dug into the sand as Bush did when HE ignored science in favor of silly stances on policies (e.g., climate change). Obama seems to be influenced here by all of the advocates who have $$$ to lose if medical cannabis in its current state is approved. Big Pharma, the private prison industry, the vast "drug war" industries, etc. -- as he has too often done, he has sided with them to the detriment of patients who truly do benefit from medical cannabis.
Ridicule if you want, but know that it has a VERY sound basis in research on benefits for a wide host of diseases. I don't even like smoking the shit -- never have. I smoked it maybe 5 times in HS, decided I didn't really like it or like the effects of it, and never smoked it again.....until recently (almost 40 years later!). I get terribly painful spasms from MS. I take 3 Big Pharma approved medications to combat them, but they still break through.....usually in the middle of the night when I'm trying to sleep. I'm woken up with them and have to do whatever I can to get rid of them. Since I've had a small amount of medical cannabis, which I've only used about 6 times in the past 4 months, I've found an incredibly effective way to combat the spasms, one that lasts for quite a long time after just a tiny amount! It's also neuroprotective for my disease and many others. Did you know that people who suffer with Alzheimer's benefit from medical marijuana, including it's neuroprotective effects? Laugh at that!
So, even if activists say this is their deciding factor for voting, they don't need to "put down the bong." This is a central and critical issue for many, many people. It affects lives in a very profound way and Obama's backward crackdowns have saddled those who legally use medical cannabis based on state law with criminal records because he's overridden what the voters of the state have agreed is legal use of cannabis. WTF?! So, you're saying that someone who has been so centrally affected by this President's backward stance & actions regarding medical cannabis "should put down the bong" if that's their deciding factor? I couldn't disagree more -- it's totally understandable. I don't agree with it for myself, but I respect it and get it.
tridim
(45,358 posts)I'm the poster who said they might be using crack, because these people should know better. They all know the real story, that the CA dispensaries that were raided were breaking state law, yet they constantly ignore that fact and instead blame Obama, who supports legal MMJ.
THEY HAVE AN AGENDA, and it is complete bullshit.
You will not find a more vocal supporter of full Cannabis legalization than myself (check DU history). And no, I don't smoke crack. In fact I've never taken any drug except Cannabis. When I say "never", I mean NEVER. Not one grain.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)It is still in effect today, and is responsible for the thriving MMJ industry states like Colorado.
If you're waiting for Obama to light up a joint on television, that's not going to happen.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)woefully uninformed. I won't label you a liar since it appears you simply don't know what's been going on all over the country. If you do, then it is, indeed, you who are lying about what this administration has been doing regarding medical cannabis.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-kampia/obama-from-first-to-worst_b_1001781.html?view=print&comm_ref=false
The IRS started going after medical marijuana businesses under the second Bush regime, and the IRS has continued doing so under Obama. In a fluke of how federal law is written, the IRS is arguing that businesses can actually deduct the cost of the marijuana that they're selling, but businesses cannot deduct other costs (rent, salaries, insurance, supplies) that any other business would normally deduct. If this doesn't change, almost all dispensaries will either go out of business or become tax evaders; either way, the federal government will be deprived of tax revenues.
This past spring, Obama's U.S. attorneys in Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Montana, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington state issued letters to local and state government officials at carefully chosen times, for the purpose of killing medical marijuana reform measures or hampering implementation in each state.
On September 21, Obama's ATF issued an open letter saying that gun shops cannot sell guns to medical marijuana patients -- or people who are known to be addicted to drugs other than alcohol or tobacco, ironically enough.
From a separate story in Raw Story:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/04/exclusive-doj-plan-to-arrest-state-licensers-tax-dispensaries-could-doom-medical-marijuana-industry/
Facing the threat of seeing otherwise innocent state employees thrown in jail, lawmakers are responding in an entirely human fashion: what Allen St. Pierre, executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), called “the old need to CYA — cover your ass.”
Ultimately, the administration’s confusing legal position has led to a stagnation of medical marijuana reform efforts, with some states simply deciding it’s not worth the risk.
And beyond use, he has cut off medical marijuana research, which is unforgivable IMO!
International studies are fortunately ahead of us. Obama's continued backward treatment of medical marijuana research has all but precluded its study in the United States. Here's one of the many issues:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/26/obama-war-on-weed.aspx
" … the federal monopoly on the supply of cannabis has fundamentally limited FDA-approved clinical research to investigate its safety and efficacy in controlling symptoms of serious and chronic illnesses.
In the United States, research is stalled, and in some cases blocked, by a complicated federal approval process, restricted access to research-grade cannabis, and the refusal of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to license private production of cannabis for use exclusively in federally approved research."
Obama's medical marijuana policies are, indeed, backward and impeding both the access to medical marijuana and research. And if you can't acknowledge that, well, that's your issue. I say it's well established FACT!
tridim
(45,358 posts)Sorry you took that the wrong way.
tpsbmam
(3,927 posts)than what you claimed. This is not limited to illegal California dispensaries.....it's a widespread crackdown on medical marijuana involving multiple agencies and all states that have legalized medical marijuana or which have been considering doing so. Sorry, I have to call you out on this -- Obama's policies are, indeed, backward and impeding progress both in terms of those who need it getting medical cannabis and in terms of research.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)effects on elections.
No?
DeathToTheOil
(1,124 posts)?
DreamSmoker
(841 posts)I am doing my part in California..
Keep up the push and maybe we can finally change this Travesty to Americans..
Gringostan
(127 posts)Well then you will be supporting Obama; because nobody else who defends your position, which I do, will be on the November election.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)If Gary Johnson wins the Libertarian Party's nomination for Prez, he will be on the ballot in all 50 states. Johnson supports legal MJ.;
Survivoreesta
(221 posts)I will be supporting obama. Enthusiastically!
Islandlife
(212 posts)Creating another 1%. When will it end?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Pot smokers are a good source of private prison slave labor.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)I really believe some of the dumbest people among us are one issue and one issue only voters.
Julie
Rex
(65,616 posts)
Uncle Joe
(64,020 posts)
Politicub
(12,327 posts)And I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the "real opening for republicans."
I'm starting to be convinced that the main reason why people go ga ga for Ron Paul is marijuana.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)to get the left to stone itself again
Uncle Joe
(64,020 posts)Thanks for the thread, Survivoreesta.
mzteris
(16,232 posts)Nose.. face . . .
As my old sig line used to say: "How's that fit of pique working out for ya?"
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Or wasting away from AIDS..
It really can be a life or death issue..
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Like the Attn. Gen. from Utah.
I don't wish cancer on anyone. but sometimes I wonder how people can be so myopic unless they personally benefit from something that aligns with human rights, patient rights... it's just incredible to see people on a Democratic site act like the religious right republican base in their attitude toward this issue.
Ask Peter McWilliams how he feels about this issue. Oh, that's right. You can't. He choked on this own vomit b/c Clinton wanted to show what a bad ass he was beating up on HIV and cancer patients.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117065